Novice to Intermediate Question

[Italian Stallion 1199s]

Hey everyone,

I was about to sign up for several track days with N2 but right before check out I noticed I am currently registered in the Novice group. After riding with N2 in Pitt in 2023 and a handful of track days at Mid-O between 2021 - 2023 I feel the Novice class is slowing my speed and growth opportunities. Actually, when at Pitt a buddy and I were accidentally sent out with the Advanced group because we came to the starting grid wayyyy to early and the track marshall sent us out by accident. Obviously they zipped by us entering/exiting the corner but neither of us were flagged to exit the course due to our speed or lack of care/awareness for the other riders.

I ride a Panigale 1199s and and find myself getting on peoples ass quickly down the straight and going at a snails pace through the turns since some of the other riders are going significantly slower and not really pushing it. I'm not trying to sound arrogant but I just want to sharpen my skills and keep improving my riding abilities.

Thanks in advance for any input!
Matt

 

[tad158]

The traffic will not slow you down. When I got the I bump I was easily riding mid I pace in novice. When I got the A bump, I was riding solid A pace in I. If the traffic is slowing you down then you need to work on passing and thinking ahead.

Getting the bump is not about pace. It is about skill. And if you have to ask.....

 

[Italian Stallion 1199s]

Solid feedback, thanks! I see some of these guys who can’t pick a line and it make me a little nervous to pass them when they don’t even know which line they want to follow… just all over the place. Any advice? Or simple as twist the wrist and send it!!

 

[NothingClever]

Or simple as twist the wrist and send it!!

I encourage liberal use of the Edit feature.

 

[tad158]

I encourage liberal use of the Edit feature.

But you can only edit for like 5 min on this forum. On my other forums you can always edit your own posts.

 

[tad158]

Solid feedback, thanks! I see some of these guys who can’t pick a line and it make me a little nervous to pass them when they don’t even know which line they want to follow… just all over the place. Any advice? Or simple as twist the wrist and send it!!

If you are good at passing, you can pass like they are not there. It is all about keeping your eyes up and planning ahead. The CRs can see if you are there or you are not.

 

[rpm894]

This has to be a troll. It has to be.

But if not, my advice to improve your riding is to buy a Ninja 400 or RC 390. Normally, I would say buy a 600, but you are a special case.

 

[The B Team]

Solid feedback, thanks! I see some of these guys who can’t pick a line and it make me a little nervous to pass them when they don’t even know which line they want to follow… just all over the place. Any advice? Or simple as twist the wrist and send it!!

Remember, passing rule is bikes past the apex and moving away from each other. Those guys that are all over the place....it's REALLY easy to hang on late and then square up and drive up the inside on the way out as they're floating wide, no matter the bike. Your straight away is longer and your bike to bike mph is higher. Panigale is only going to amplify that. My passing opportunities increased tenfold when this clicked for me. Just don't come in hot too early (before or at the apex.)

 

[tad158]

Remember, passing rule is bikes past the apex and moving away from each other. Those guys that are all over the place....it's REALLY easy to hang on late and then square up and drive up the inside on the way out as they're floating wide, no matter the bike. Your straight away is longer and your bike to bike mph is higher. Panigale is only going to amplify that. My passing opportunities increased tenfold when this clicked for me. Just don't come in hot too early (before or at the apex.)

This. But you need to leave a gap on entry so you can carry more speed to apex. This is how even a Panigale can get passed by a 600, because if the 600 picks up the throttle at or before the apex, you have no shot, because you got passed before the rider in front even knew you were there. If you can't look past the rider in front and plan the move, you will get stuck behind. You can't pas someone if you ride their line....because they are in that line already. The passing rider also needs to have a good line, for example, you can't square the corner off if you turn in early. Cue John saying "You can't go fast on crappy lines!"

Things need to feel slow, because that means you have brain cells to plan nice clean and smooth passes. If you are spending all of your brain cells on trying to follow the person in front and it feels fast, it means you are not comfortable enough with your pace and are riding over your head (not good).

 

[jonobrin]

Riders in novice group often get bunched up and it can be frustrating to try and get around the big groups. I found it helpful to go back to the pit lane and hang out for a minute. Look for an opening and let it rip.

You're riding a Panigale in novice group. You should have no problem catching up to people if you know how to ride. Just keep in mind its a track day not a race. Be respectful of the people learning and you'll probably get bumped when you aren't even thinking about it.

 

[domarena33]

I understand this because I felt the same way for quite some time. My track bike last year was a stock SV650. I got passed by everyone on the straights but would catch up in the corners, ready to pass but unable. I learned to carry corner speed and get super good on the brakes. Problems and frustrations made me find and learn every way possible to get around people. Next month I'm riding in Novice group with PRE and I'm actually looking forward to it. It's going to present me with problems to work through that I may have not seen before and things to learn.

 

[tdelegram]

95% of bumps give the person never knows they are being evaluated. If you're at the top of the group it is obvious to the coaches. Many don't believe it, but we want everyone to get to the next group and love seeing progress. Unfortunately we offer give specific advice which requires people to slow down a bit to incorporate and then we get excuses as to why they can't. The advice we are giving is usually the thing or things standing between you and the next group. Have fun with pre, I'll be at their Road Atlanta March days, they are a great group to ride with and have some awesome coaches.

 

[Italian Stallion 1199s]

Riders in novice group often get bunched up and it can be frustrating to try and get around the big groups. I found it helpful to go back to the pit lane and hang out for a minute. Look for an opening and let it rip.

^this was one of my primary concerns. Just getting hung up behind slow groups. At Mid-O I was able to talk to an instructor and get moved to another Novice group since I started in a group with a KTM 390's and such and it was just a snails pace. Then there were other times where I was in a more suitable group where we all ran the same pace.

This has to be a troll. It has to be.

But if not, my advice to improve your riding is to buy a Ninja 400 or RC 390. Normally, I would say buy a 600, but you are a special case.

This by no means was a troll post - simply want to make the most out of the time on the track. Not sure how to take the "special case" dig, but to each their own.

 

[Goodman]

Best advice I have for when caught in traffic is to either look for places in which you can safely pass or hot pit to get into a pocket. If you are hesitant to pass due to unpredictability, follow them for a bit to get an idea of their patterns and then exploit them. As mentioned before, adjusting your turn entry and exit can let you undercut on the exit.

 

[Jorgy]

I know it can be frustrating to feel like you can't get a clean lap in novice, and very difficult to get through a line of 5 or 6 slower riders. Particularly from 7-12 at Pitt. I was there last summer until I got the bump which I wasn't expecting.

The best fix for it is the hot pit. If you constantly catch up to the slower riders again you will get bumped. Get to know a control rider or two, listen to them and don't rush it. Definitely don't send it!

One thing I learned from my atp day was that practicing at a slower pace makes you go faster. It works.

 

[bmart]

You're riding a Panigale in novice group.

Big HP is a tool, but not a skill. You can use it to make time, but I'd recommend adding skills to your toolbox to make time through traffic in any group. That's a path that'll pay huge dividends as you get faster/safer and move up through the skill groups.

 

[Italian Stallion 1199s]

Never really thought about hot pit, great advice! I guess I just get anxious since we obviously have limited seat time. And I know the 1199 is a bigger bike but it’s not a dedicated track bike so I ride it frequently on the streets so my hands are tied at the moment.

I would like to get back to a smaller bike, like my old gsxr 750 but just don’t have the funding at the moment.

 

[NothingClever]

....it's REALLY easy to hang on late and then square up and drive up the inside on the way out as they're floating wide, no matter the bike.

Preach it, brother.

Next month I'm riding in Novice group with PRE and I'm actually looking forward to it. It's going to present me with problems to work through that I may have not seen before and things to learn.

I think this is a great way to look at things.

 

[The B Team]

Preach it, brother.

hmmm yah....wonder where I learned that from?

 

[TimTheAsian]

^this was one of my primary concerns. Just getting hung up behind slow groups. At Mid-O I was able to talk to an instructor and get moved to another Novice group since I started in a group with a KTM 390's and such and it was just a snails pace. Then there were other times where I was in a more suitable group where we all ran the same pace.

We don't run our novice group like Mid-Ohio. Mid-Ohio is basically lead-follow all day. We do not do that outside of the first 2 laps of the first 2 sessions to let people get acclimated to the corner workers stations and the track. You are then free to run your pace within the group rules.