Questions about proper body position

Discussion in 'Tech Forum' started by Jgelack, Feb 15, 2020.

  1. Jgelack

    Jgelack New Member

    I've read just about every article and watched every video I could find on proper body position, but still have a couple of questions. This is what I got so far. Set up lower body well before turn in by sliding your butt back in the seat so theres about a fist width between your crotch and the tank. Half butt cheek off the seat. On the ball of inside foot with toes pointed out at about a 45 degree angle, heal pressed in against bike. Inside knee pointed out, forming "triangle of daylight". Outside foot either on the ball or more in the middle of your foot, your preference. Outside knee locked hard into the tank. Then at the turn in, drop your inside elbow, head, and upper body to the inside of the turn and parallel to the bike, looking through the turn to the exit. Inside hand holding grip like a screwdriver. Outside arm loosely draped across the tank. After turn, keep butt off seat if there are consecutive turns in the same direction. Butt should be off the seat to the left or right at all times, never in the middle, unless your on a very long straightaway.
    All that to ask, do I have any of this wrong? When dropping my inside elbow, should I be pointing it more down, or more out? How low should my head be? As a brand new track rider, should I be practicing body position first? And when practicing, would you suggest I practice all these steps at once, or one at a time, until I get comfortable with it, and then build on that? I'm sorry for so many questions, and such a long post. Since finding this forum, you guys have helped me with so many things, and I just want to thank you all for that!
  2. Dom17

    Dom17 Intermediate Intermediate

    To answer some of your questions:

    The inside elbow should be up rather than pointed down.

    How far should your head be over? That depends on where you are in the corner. Body position is important but body timing is important too. Watch MotoGP and motoamerica. As they enter the breaking zone their head is actually pretty close to the midline of the bike. If you are all they way out to the side of the bike with your upper body when you begin to apply the brakes you will not be able to brace yourself.

    Other things to consider is that as you get faster, these inputs continue to stay smooth. We don't get hectic on the bike.

    Make sure that your inside calf is contracted and supporting your body weight to help the bike turn.

    Another report card is making sure you have no weight on the inside arm mid corner which could make the steering head feel "locked up". This will result in the bike not turning the way you want it to.

    You are on the right path. If you have paddock stands you can practice and practice till you cant get it wrong. Don't worry about looking like Marc Marquez right away, body positions that are too extreme too soon can take away from our ability to manage motor controls till we are ready.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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  3. HondaGalToo

    HondaGalToo Control Rider

    ...and point your toe. What you've written above sounds like what YCRS would describe, and us too, as we teach their principles. What Dom wrote is also great!

    At lunchtime, we have a second, optional classroom session where we have a bike in the classroom up on stands and will go over all of this! I like that you're thinking about this stuff and asking great questions!

    Your head is actually at the lowest as you exit the turn and push the bike up and away, taking away lean angle as you add throttle to accelerate out of the turn.
    Lenny ZX9R, adotjdot and Dom17 like this.
  4. Do a 2 day school at YCRS and Nick will show you how to apply what you posted. Then do track days with N2 and apply what you learned by doing track days. Ask any control rider for help and they will be happy to point you in the right direction. You will see how N2 applies the same techniques you were taught at YCRS and maybe even recognize some of your instructors. Make the investment in yourself! It pays!!
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  5. adotjdot

    adotjdot Control Rider ATP/3C

    Great feedback here already! Sounds like you have a good feel for what to address with BP. If you have not seen this yet, watch this video and apply what you have read so far...

    As for when to be addressing BP in your riding, it is important in that you are using it to help reduce lean angle in the corners. But what most people don't realize is that working on it typically comes after things like eyes, brakes, apexes, etc. You can have awesome BP, but if you are not using your brakes very well to help the bike slow and turn, that needs to come first. There is an order to the sport. Ken Hill talks about this all of the time. Check out some of his podcasts.

    And when working on these changes to your riding, you should only be focusing on one thing at a time. For BP, pick one aspect of it to change, for example...if you are working on butt position. This becomes your plan for your session. Every corner, every straight, your focus is on what you are doing with just that one aspect of your riding. Work on it until it becomes muscle memory. Then move to the next thing to work on.
  6. HondaGalToo

    HondaGalToo Control Rider

    Great vid! One of the things they are talking about that I'd like to reiterate is to drop your head - move your head to the inside by bending at the waist, and being back off the gas tank. This is the one main BP item I correct a lot in the Novice group. One butt cheek is off the bike, but he/she is up against the fuel tank and not dropping the head off center to the inside of the turn. This results in being "crossed up", where the rider's head is still centered and they are rotating around the tank. Make sure to drop the head into the turns, and drop it even lower as you exit the turn and push the bike away from you to stand it up as you begin accelerating. Body horizontal and parallel. They show it nicely in the vid.

    The report card - if your head is low and inside, your outside arm will be resting across the fuel tank.
    Lenny ZX9R likes this.
  7. Jgelack

    Jgelack New Member

    Just wanted to thank all of you for your excellent advice! I will set the bike up on stands so I can practice proper body position as you suggested, I just don't want to practice bad habits that I'll only have to try to break later on! I always thought the inside elbow was suppose to be lower than the wrist, but you say it should be pointed up? I also didn't realize that the placement of your head is determined by where you are in the corner. Should all my weight be supported by my (half ) butt cheek that's still on the seat, and my inside calf? And my outside thigh pressed hard into the tank is what holds me onto the bike, correct? So much to learn! I like the suggestion about concentrating on one thing at a time, and building on that! That Video was excellent as well and VERY informative! Thanks again everyone!
  8. Dom17

    Dom17 Intermediate Intermediate

    Allow me to correct myself. The inside elbow will be pointed out rather than down. For most people this will leave the inside elbow slightly below the wrist and you are correct. This really depends on the type of grip you have on the inside arm. The big thing to focus on is are you maintaining a light grip on the handlebars as it is easy to put your weight on the insight handlebar which negatively affects handling.

    Yes indeed placement of head is based on where you are in the corner. Listen to the Ken hill podcast on body position and body timing. As Judy said "Make sure to drop the head into the turns, and drop it even lower as you exit the turn and push the bike away from you to stand it up as you begin accelerating." We use the brakes until we are comfortable with our speed and direction. Straight up and down braking is used for speed control, and we use braking assisted steering (trail braking) to force the front tire into the pavement resulting in more grip when turning and it also controls(tightens) the radius of our turn. We brake until we are comfortable with our speed and direction. Once we are in a position to pick up the throttle we can drop our head further as we increase throttle. The head drop stands the bike up as increase the throttle which gives us a greater contact patch and more points of grip allowing for safe and fast acceleration. We never add two variables that would decrease available grip at the same time. For instance we never add lean angle and throttle at the same time. If we take away lean angle either through straightening the bike out or through compensating more with our body position it allows us to add more throttle because we have more grip available.

    A lot of this will make a lot more sense as you get seat time on the track and work with control riders to get feed back on what you are doing.

    Another thing to consider is that the first 1% through 5% of all controls (initial brakes and initial throttle) are very precise and controlled(slow).
    Lenny ZX9R, adotjdot and HondaGalToo like this.
  9. Dont forget trail breaking.
  10. tdelegram

    tdelegram Control Rider

    A lot going on above, I think you’re best course of action if you don’t want to start with poor habits is do an ATP day or hire a private coach for the day. AJ can get you more information on either option. Like any sport fundamentals are the foundation that everything is built on. In reality this is an easy sport to understand, the application of the techniques is the challenging part.
    Lenny ZX9R and adotjdot like this.
  11. bmart

    bmart Control Rider

    ATP and getting some coaching is the way to go. You'll get to understand and try the fundamentals for yourself. See you out there. Come say hi!
    adotjdot likes this.
  12. adotjdot

    adotjdot Control Rider ATP/3C

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  13. Jgelack

    Jgelack New Member

    Thank you for those links! I was planning on attending the ATP class, but never considered private training. After listening to several of Ken Hill’s podcasts, as was suggested, I realize there are several other things I should probably be working on before body position! Thanks everyone for your advice!
    Dom17 likes this.

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