Yet ANOTHER tire thread...

[ZLTFUL]

SO I am debating.
Last year I ran Pilot Powers the whole season.
Never had any real issues and I KNOW I can't outride them.
But the mental thing kept coming up.
I am coming into this turn really hot...will the tires hold...

My only crash this past year was the result of 2 mistakes on my part and it was more of a bad arm position than anything. But I second guess myself A LOT on this. The back end stepped out...was it because of my mistake or did the tire lose traction?

SO I find myself shopping for tires for this year.
I already have a set of 2CTs brand new and ready to go.
But I can't help but wonder if it's gong to be enough...or would new Pilot Powers be plenty...or should I step up one more to Pilot Race?
I love the Michelin profile the most of any tire I have used (DC3s, Powers, Qualies) on the street so other brands aren't really a consideration unless the profile is the same as the Michelins.

Bike is a 2000 GSXR750 and I ride a mid-fast B group pace.
Should I go stickier to ease my over-active self survival instinct or are Powers or 2CTs going to be plenty?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[shaugdog]

I'm sure you will have lots of fast guys chiming in that you can safely take any of the trackday/street tires all the way to advanced, BUT, if you are loosing confidence and can afford it, buy the tires that will get your mind right so you can concentrate on your riding and not your tires. My .02

 

[Sklossmonster]

I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses on this, but in my opinion confidence is everything in this game.

Yes, a highly skilled expert rider can do respectable Advanced group times on race/street tires (Pilot Power/Q2/DC3/OO3rs) BUT if you aren't a highly skilled expert rider it may not be the best way for you to become one.

I personally made the switch to full on race rubber when I was in the Beginner group, but back in those days there were no hybrid race/street tires, only street tires and race tires.

If you're not ready for tire warmers, a source of power to run them, etc. you may just want to switch to a different brand of race/street tire.

If the Pilot Powers you have are brand new, you can easily sell them on any number of internet forums and sales sites.

Have you considered Dunlop's new Q2? Dunlop is a Nesba partner and does a lot to support this club, Rob at Lithium and here in the Midwest we've been selling the new Q2 for $299 a set, which includes trackside mounting and balancing.

That being said, I personally prefer the ultimate grip, feel, and confidence that come with pure race rubber. They cost more, but they grip better and you can feel what they're doing much more so than with any street/track tire.

Give Rob a call at Lithium and I'm sure he'll take care of you. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

[ridelater]

the tire u have are fine. and should last longer then a softer/sticker tire saving u money. though soon after i got to I group i did switch to race tires maybe for ur same reasons. in retro spec i should have stayed with my dc3. The faster u get the more heat u will put into the tire at a certain point a non-race tire will get to hot and give out/ lose traction regardless of tread and tire life hence the when the fast guys r pushing it they need to be on the better tire. though if money is not a question, the race tire will give u confidence and one less thing to worry about

 

[ZLTFUL]

Think I like what I see with the Pilot Pures...

Marshall, I haven't tried the new Qualies but have tried several Dunlops from D207s on up to the pevious gen Qualifiers and have felt the profile to be too "squared off" for my preference.

With the Pures being a new tire for 2010, does anyone have any early opinions of them?

 

[Jiggy]

shaugdog;113807 wrote: I'm sure you will have lots of fast guys chiming in that you can safely take any of the trackday/street tires all the way to advanced, BUT, if you are loosing confidence and can afford it, buy the tires that will get your mind right so you can concentrate on your riding and not your tires. My .02

You can safely take any of the trackday/street tires all the way to advanced, BUT, if you are loosing confidence and can afford it, buy the tires that will get your mind right so you can concentrate on your riding and not your tires. The Nesba store has a great special on Dunlops right now.

 

[nickmick]

yeah, check out the dunlop deal.

if i hadn't already bought a few sets of tires, I would have jumped on that.

 

[Hambone]

You will be fine with the 2 CTs, or even the regular pilot powers. Take a step back for a moment and think about what you wrote in your post. If you are thinking that your crashes are caused by your mistakes, it makes no difference what tires you run. You could have Motogp tires and still make those mistakes. A racier tire will take longer to heat up but will still be sticky and usable when it's nice and hot. A street/track tire will warm up faster but if you get the pace up there really high, you could overwhelm the tire's traction and lean angle. Midpack B group is pretty mild so you should be fine (please don't take that as an insult to your riding ability). Here is my advice, at your next track day, get your head clear and ride your ride. Find one of the many willing CR's and tell that CR what you think your problem is. Ask nicely for him/her to follow you around and ride with you to help you figure out what it is that you are doing right or wrong. My guess is that they will tell you to slow down and try to be smoother. Don't worry so much about tires right now. Just make sure that your tires are fresh and have the correct pressure. As mentioned in an earlier post, race tires don't last very long and are more expensive.

 

[ZLTFUL]

Hambone, I appreciate your advice but second guessing is something I do best. LOL.

A little background on the crash...
I was following a CR. It was the second session of the day and we had run 2 laps at a BLISTERING pace for B group. I was doing an excellent job staying on his ass at the pace he set.
I can honestly, without a doubt say that I was pushing the hardest I have ever pushed and felt VERY comfortable doing it.
Third lap we wicked it up another notch and at the end of the lap (turn 13 at MPH coming onto the front straight) is when the accident happened.
I was leaned over mid turn and felt myself drifting wider than I had the previous 2 laps. Had I let it go, I would have been fine but consistency is the way to get the bump...
So I tried to tighten my line up just a little bit by giving a touch more lean.
I inadvertantly rolled the throttle JUST a hair and suddenly found myself on the deck sliding to the outside of the turn watching my bike catch the grass and begin to barrel roll.

In hindsight, I know that it was my throttle roll that most likely caused the back end to step out...but the tires were Pilot Powers on their second weekend. I can't help but wonder what would have happened had I had a grippier tire. Would my slight throttle roll have resulted in the same crash or would the tire have held on through that momentary increase in rotational force.

I don't know. What I do know is in examining the tire after the fact, the scuffing on the contact patch indicates a loss of grip and nothing else.

Pressures were spot on for the conditions for that day. I had nearly 4 full laps under my belt with 2.95 of them being at a healthy heat generating pace.

So I think your assertion that you can potentially overwhelm the street tire's traction is almost spot on with the situation.
All I know for certain is that day saw the founding of Team Alfalfa Racing as me and my teammate mowed several bushels of that stuff that day (Only once for me but he came back twice with fairings full!)

 

[jas0336]

I ran Pilot Powers while in B group. I switched to Power Race (PR3 I think) toward the end of my B career and then to Dunlop 209GPA after being bumped to I group...not because I got bumped but just because I needed tires and wanted to support NESBA.

I also worry about what the tires can handle as I enter each corner at faster and faster speeds. I will say that I doubt it matters much when you make a mistake (sometimes). If you're moving at a good clip and at full lean and you've chosen your line, adding more lean to tighten up is probably going to cause problems with any tire.

All that said, when the Pilot Powers were about to go, I started to feel it...especially the rear would step out. I may be a little ham fisted and it was on an R1 but I would feel the rear start to move and slide and that's when I replaced them.

Moving to Power Race made me feel bullet proof. I knew I was running better tires than many people who were much faster than me. So my pace picked up and I just concentrated on body position and any advice from CRs on my technique and form. Then when I moved to the GPAs I felt even more confidence. I just felt if they can do it then I can do it...I just need to be smooth, consistent and get my fat ass off the seat.

Take all that for what it's worth. Mid to upper pack is usually moving at a respectable pace. So I think if you are giving ANY thought to your tires once on the track, you should upgrade to something a little stickier.
Just my .02

 

[nickmick]

Just think of Marshall's Law:

Tires + Lean angle = High side. you're lucky you lowsided!

I really don't know what happened or why you crashed. but I think 2cts are just fine.