Pitt 7/10

DethWshBkr

New Member
It's funny you say that about the lack of structure. That is actually how I learned a ton.
There were many times I had to push way beyond my comfort level to try to hang with some guys that would blow by me. Every once in awhile I would go down as a result of that. But it also helped teach me how fast I could go, and it helped me to understand how fast I needed to go for certain jumps. I remember one time I was behind a pair of guys that were far faster than me. After they would drop me I would actually cut the course and come back in behind them for the straightaway, into a left hand sweeper to an 80 ft double. Jumped that double four or five times until I just slightly messed up and cased it. Two black eyes, but I learned a ton, and after that I was able to jump a lot more. That then got my overall track speed up, which then necessitated me being faster through corners. Eventually to where I was an expert class. Lots of hospital visits in between though!!!
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
Agree, you're not coming across whiny at all. Also agree with erring on the side of caution if you can't pass. We stress to "pass for the comfort of the rider you are passing".

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but even in Novice, I think you can set someone up so that as you pass the apex and the bikes are straightening up, you can then pass on the inside, as the bikes are moving away from each other. It's after the apex, so it's not an inside pass. The bikes will be mostly straight up when the pass occurs. So it's not an "in the corner pass" either.

I like these questions, and the desire to be courteous and responsible. That's how you get to the next level. Someone can be the quickest one in Novice, but if they are riding like an asshole and not following the rules, they ain't getting the bump. More likely they'll get to sit out a session.

Keep asking and evaluating! It's how we all learn! Appreciate the questions.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
It's funny you say that about the lack of structure. That is actually how I learned a ton.
There were many times I had to push way beyond my comfort level to try to hang with some guys that would blow by me. Every once in awhile I would go down as a result of that. But it also helped teach me how fast I could go, and it helped me to understand how fast I needed to go for certain jumps. I remember one time I was behind a pair of guys that were far faster than me. After they would drop me I would actually cut the course and come back in behind them for the straightaway, into a left hand sweeper to an 80 ft double. Jumped that double four or five times until I just slightly messed up and cased it. Two black eyes, but I learned a ton, and after that I was able to jump a lot more. That then got my overall track speed up, which then necessitated me being faster through corners. Eventually to where I was an expert class. Lots of hospital visits in between though!!!

LOL, this is why I don't ride dirt bikes, LMAO. Yup, as mentioned, the stakes on sportbikes are way higher. Heavier bikes, faster speeds. The key is to be really smooth and progressive with inputs. That first and last 5% of braking is the same; take that millisecond to load the tire before you ask it to really work with hard braking. That way you can tell if you're on the edge of grip, instead of jumping over it with less than optimal results!
 

mpusch

Micah
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but even in Novice, I think you can set someone up so that as you pass the apex and the bikes are straightening up, you can then pass on the inside, as the bikes are moving away from each other. It's after the apex, so it's not an inside pass. The bikes will be mostly straight up when the pass occurs. So it's not an "in the corner pass" either.

That's my understanding as well.

I think that's one of the best ways to work on passing early on as well. Leave a bit bigger gap than you'd normally be behind someone to give room so that you can be rolling quicker than them as you get to corner exit. It sounds so simple, but it can be easy to just stay a couple bike lengths behind someone who is a bit slower and then if you're both just twisting the throttle the same on exit you won't make any progress.
 

moman

Member
As far as I'm concerned you shouldn't watch the weather too closely. Some of the best track days are when it's raining(not a downpour). Most riders are sitting in the pits and you can go out with ample track room and focus on your lines and being smooth.
IMHO this will help you immensely.
Oh ya, like others have said use the pit in/out method to get away from the groups!
 

bmart

Control Rider
Also, PLEASE feel free to critique any of my videos. I welcome observations.

The only comment I have for you, and someone may have already made it, is about passing.

Passing doesn't always happen by just barely trying to squeeze by someone before they lean in, or by riding right behind someone and then powering out harder than them. You will likely benefit greatly by trying to plan the passes in advance. Perhaps leaving some space getting up to a turn so that you can exit much faster than them. You'll barely notice that they're there. :)

I know this because it happens to me all of the time. Frequently by Ron.
 

DethWshBkr

New Member
The only comment I have for you, and someone may have already made it, is about passing.

Passing doesn't always happen by just barely trying to squeeze by someone before they lean in, or by riding right behind someone and then powering out harder than them. You will likely benefit greatly by trying to plan the passes in advance. Perhaps leaving some space getting up to a turn so that you can exit much faster than them. You'll barely notice that they're there. :)

I know this because it happens to me all of the time. Frequently by Ron.

Its funny you say this - I was actually just telling my brother this same thing on Sunday. Stay a few bikes back, and then allow your greater momentum to close you up "in" the corner and time it so you are then passing on exit.
BUT - I need to COMPLETELY and FULLY understand the passing rules to do this. If passing out of a corner (diverging lines) is OK, then I can make that a plan and work on that. Of course again, those times are limited at Summit it seems.

Looking forward to next time to try to put it all into practice again.
 

TimTheAsian

Fresh off the Boat
Staff member
Control Rider
Get the elite membership if you are worried about weather.

I've seen a 80% chance of rain at Pitt Race be a beautiful day and we've watched the storm fronts go past the track and it was dry as a bone. That place specifically you cannot trust the weather forecast.
 
I rode NCBike this weekend. It rained on Sunday when I was there. That was my first experience on track when it was either raining or the surface was wet. 10 out of 10 times I would do it again. I learned a lot just by riding in the rain. Sucky weather =/= sucky track riding.
 

bmart

Control Rider
Best smoothness teacher ever...and it is free. Curious what tires and pressure you were running. Nice job!
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
:like: Awesome, I'll try to find you to say hello. I have a red F150, silver dual axle 7x14 enclosed. Bike 75, gsxr, black with red flames. Say hi if you find me first, lol.
 

DethWshBkr

New Member
Will do!
I'll be in my truck red F150, Slades Mechanical on the side, and this one's mine...
Gotta remove and re-glue the grips. I was pulling them off last time at Summit, and I used genuine grip glue too. Bikes_.jpg
 

DethWshBkr

New Member
Ok, that was truly a phenomenal track. Loved the physical aspect of it. Lots of corners to work with, and the elevation was very nice. The blind corners were honestly extremely intimidating until you learned the track, but then were a lot of fun.
Took a while to learn the track, but afternoon felt like I was able to work up a bit. Definitely wasn't pushing myself as hard as I could have. Had the rear skating have a few times on decel, but not concerning. Never came close to going off track, so obviously was well within my limits.
Definitely want to go back. 5 hour drive, so its not going to be often. I don't see how you guys drive 5-8 hours plus to do these events! You're all crazy.

Nice chatting hondagal! Sorry I was right in the middle of suspension work. I rebuild my suspension two weeks ago. Front and rear got proper rate springs, fresh oil, and a recharge on the rear. I had completely forgotten to set my clickers on the rear shock, so my compression and rebound were wide open. Accidentally put the lower shock mount 180° out of position, so I couldn't access the rebound clicker.
 

mpusch

Micah
Ok, that was truly a phenomenal track. Loved the physical aspect of it. Lots of corners to work with, and the elevation was very nice. The blind corners were honestly extremely intimidating until you learned the track, but then were a lot of fun.
Took a while to learn the track, but afternoon felt like I was able to work up a bit. Definitely wasn't pushing myself as hard as I could have. Had the rear skating have a few times on decel, but not concerning. Never came close to going off track, so obviously was well within my limits.
Definitely want to go back. 5 hour drive, so its not going to be often. I don't see how you guys drive 5-8 hours plus to do these events! You're all crazy.

The addiction usually doesn't get better. I started with only making a 3.5 hour drive to Pittrace (when it was only 1/2 the size it currently is), then 7 hours to New Jersey, and now I drive 14 hours to Barber once a year.

I'm really glad you enjoyed the track, pretty hard to dislike Pitt!
 

DethWshBkr

New Member
Can someone (or a few people) give me some opinions for my learning? This was my 3 o'clock session. Decided to line up on the left side, and try it out to see if it would allow the session to flow smoother. It did.




The whole way through 2:40 (lap 0) I take as a warm up lap.
4:11-4:14. (1:31 into lap 1) I wanted to push up and try to at least make 1 pass, but I wanted to be courteous to the other rider(s) and not force something. While obviously better to err on the side of caution - would that have been OK to push up? There were multiple instances of people pushing up on the right side in that spot. This of course would shuffle me back another spot, and make it difficult to make the pass again later, as I lost that space.
Same around 4:40-4:50.
5:33 I felt it was good for one, but not for the other.
7:37, finally felt I could do it without being a jerk. Overcooked a but though and was sliding the rear tire on decel down the hill. Oops.

Lap 4. Got a lap where any passes felt very black and white as far as being "good". Finally got a relatively clean track, and had my best complete lap. Made a bunch of errors in lines, but got to finally try to put it together.

12:57. Was this pass ok? I didn't feel like passing there was wise as it's right between two turns, but perhaps I'm being too cautious there. If it's legit, that's fine. I'll keep that in mind for the next visit. With that "busy" section, I don't want to startle or cause another rider to have to alter their plans.

14:24 - was this OK? I honestly felt bad making that pass. I felt like it was too close to the corner for the other rider, but in the heat of that run, I did not want to let that other guy go.
 
I run intermediate so I know some of the passing rules are different. I would have passed at 411 if I was closer than you were at that moment. I would have done everything to be clean but I would have pushed and prepped a turn ahead to make sure it was clean.

440 on the video I would have absolutely passed but again I would have worked hard to make sure that I prepped before and was much closer than you appeared (Video distortion from wide angle could be a factor in my comments).

533 was a clean pass and left plenty of time for the passed rider to correct if needed.

1257 was a clean pass by that KTM in my opinion you were not near the apex and there was plenty of space. you cannot wait for every rider but I do appreciate your concerns.

1424 also looked clean to me you were both upright and not on the apex at all.

you seem very considerate and that is nice but I think you are overanalyzing this a bit. I think there are many clean opportunities you shared and you should push appropriately. Dont be too aggressive but pushing is fine and expected I feel.
 
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