A little disappointed

rjack

New Member
I'm not sure this is the the right place for a question about evaluation but if someone could reply it will be appreciated. I was at Barber on Nov.28 riding in the N group. I ask for a evaluation from two different control riders and received no feed back except for one who told me he was ask to follow someone else after the first session. Was there something I should have done differently to receive some sort of evaluation for a bump ? This was my 2nd track day with N2 but have several with other groups.
 

adotjdot

Control Rider
ATP/3C
rjack, I was at the event but I was working with the ATP program so I was focused on a few specific members. However, I will try to address the issue in a general manner but I defer to the N2 Directors when it comes to specific instances.

If you are asking for an evaluation from a CR, there are a couple of ways to go. Either you sync up with one in the paddock before the session and agree to meet somewhere before your group gets sent out, or you pull up to the CR's when on grid and move to the front of the line on the left to go out first. The CR riding with you will typically play "lead/follow" for as long as they feel necessary to evaluate your riding. Once they are comfortable with their assessment of your riding they may pull off to work with other riders, pull you into the pits, or just wait until the end of the session to sync up with you. Typically we like to pull off the track and talk with the rider we are evaluating immediately after the session to ask them questions and review the session with them. This gives us a good feel for whether or not they are ready for the next level.

I am sorry you felt like you did not get the level of attention you were hoping for. One of the things we always point out in the riders meetings is if there are issues like this, PLEASE bring it up to one of the event Directors so that they can address the issue then and there. As CRs, we have a lot of people we are trying to work with out there. Our main focus as N2 CRs is coaching but we have to think about safety and traffic control while we are out there too. Along with a very long list of other responsibilities, the Directors are there to help with member issues like this too. We could not be successful without them.

All that being said, again, I will njlet the directors handle the specifics of the issue, but it might help to have a little more detail about how and when you approached the CRs you talked. Did you actually ride with them on the track but never heard an evaluation? Did you never get a chance to sync up with them while riding? Any details would help.

Thanks!
 

rjack

New Member
I first approached a CR in the paddock area and he advised to move to the front close to the CR's. I did this for my first session and one CR ask if I wanted him to ride with me. I followed him most of that first session but didn't see him until the next session. The second session I pulled up next to him and he informed me that he was ask to follow someone else. He didn't offer any advise. Looking back, I suppose I should have ask but was a little confused at that point. I rode the remainder of the morning sessions pulling up front each time. Received no feed back from anyone. The second session of the afternoon I ask another CR for evaluation but received no feed back from him either. I didn't think this was the norm and probably should have looked them up after the session. I don't mean to be critical . I had a good day and enjoyed it. Just wish I had done whatever was nessesary to get instructions from guys that are much better track day riders than me. Please advise.
 

jcurtis

Control Rider
N2
Rjack, glad you enjoyed your day. Barber is a fantastic facility and it's hard not to have a great time there. Please PM me as I want to get a bit more information about your day and how we can get you the instruction you are seeking.
 

D-Zum

My 13 year old is faster than your President
CR's basically volunteer their eyes to give you an outside perspective on your riding. To maximize the efficiency of that service, clear and concise communication is essential.

If you were lining up to the front, that's a signal to them you feel you're looking for the bump. In my experience, if you're ready, most times they will recognize that. There are quite a few CR's now,
many are my friends, and I know they go looking for people for to discuss riding, both good feedback as well as opportunities for improvement they see and what to share with N and I riders. I get tips from them all the
time in the pits after A sessions. They REALLY helped me this year make some great improvements.

When you communicate with a CR, I've found it historically more productive for me to approach them with a specific problem I'm trying to solve in my own riding. That will give them a specific issue to pay attention to, to help you with, to
provide you more detailed feedback. It's more of a recipe to success for all involved than coming in and asking, "How do I look?"...too ambiguous.

Also, the CR's generally sit at the pit in gate after each session waiting for riders to approach them and give feedback, while it's fresh in their heads, at the end of each session they work. They have a lot of people to work with on each day, so getting the feedback when it's fresh is also essential to your success.

My last piece of advise....don't go looking for the bump, it will find you. Just go out and have fun. Yes, I know, moving up is satisfying. It satisfies our need for a sense of accomplishment. It's part of the Human Condition. Especially us Americans.
But maybe you focus so much on getting that new sticker on your bike, it takes away from your concentration on the track and actually costs you that much coveted promotion. I think that singular focus maybe cost myself my I sticker and left me stuck in N group for quite a few years when I started with this group. Once I stopped giving a damn and just went out to ride, BOOM!

And I never had any ambitions of being an A rider. I was just having a blast lining up in the back of the left side line and working my way through all the riders ahead of me during a session. Next thing I know, I'm working with Taylor Wells on VIR Full and asking him to help me with body position, or the line in some specific corners I wanted to run through quicker, and he comes in and says, "Dude..you gotta GO! You're done in I group. Come up to the building, sign the sheet and get a new sticker." That made me nervous..but I accepted it. And then get out for my first session, expecting to line up and get all confused....nobody's lining up! They just wait for the green flag and GO in A group...that's weird at first.

So hopefully you come back and hopefully you continue to have fun and progress with us.
 

Motofun352

Control Rider
A couple of additional items (not for you in particular but something I occasionally see);

Please have good clear numbers on the front of your bike...it really helps us identify who we're working with. Sometimes I'll ride with 3 or 4 people in one session and when you get as old as me, you get all confused...er, the blue bike with blue numbers...wait there's 3 bikes like that.......:)

Don't be shy, stop at the end of the session. I'll gladly skip an A session if it means I can help a fellow rider.

Keep your head up (figuratively) and have fun. I don't know how many people got bumped when they stopped focusing on the bump and instead focused on technique and the joy of riding...This is the way it happened to me.
 
Always come and find the Director of the event if you have any issues. I would have made it my purpose to to get you hooked up with our instructors and gotten you the attention needed to see if you were ready to "climb the track ladder" a bit more. Sorry it didn't go better - we had a record number of CR's and coaches/instructors at this event and would have been easy to have made this happen for you. Keep that chin up and come out with us in the Spring. After the Rider's meeting let the event director know what you are looking to do and I guarantee you it will be done!

HJ
 

Otto Man

John
Control Rider
Ron, not to beat the dead horse as it's been well covered, but I understand your frustration. And we as control riders want to help you guys out. I know some of us have bad short term memories (I know I've hit my head one too many times) so by all means feel free to grab a CR while you're sitting on pit lane waiting to get out on track or remind us. Please understand it's frustrating for us on our end when we hear of people having problems after the fact - the day is already over and there's nothing we can do to fix that day.

Hope to see you out there in the spring!
 

rhill

Member
Just a thought.....some organizations suggest taping an X on the back of your helmet when you go on track if you need assistance.

Can't say I've ever done it, but that seems like a nice simple method for people to "wave down" a control rider while on track.....it would work well for both asking for assistance or for signaling interest in bump evaluation.

If I was on track came up on someone who has a big blue X on the back of their helmet, it would spark my attention. It would also make the rider easier to find at the end of the session.

Track days are pretty busy for everyone....seems like a quick and easy way to say "hello" while avoiding the whole "losing the other person" scenario.
 

greg sproles

New Member
RJack- don't waste your time going to another track day provider. From my east coast experience, (not too much, sorry) these guys are the best to ride with on this side of 'Murica'! they are very safe, concise and will address this with you. Have a safe New Year and welcome to N2--


and I don't even work for these guys!!
 

dlockhart

New Member
I miss the epic " bump threads" from the old NESBA days. :like:

For the OP, I think the guys covered it pretty well. I will say the bump from B to I was the biggest step for me. You have a huge amount of skills and knowledge to learn.
I to A you pretty much know how to ride, you just get better and faster at it.

:squid:
 

ter-dell

New Member
you really can't be shy in this org (n2, now paired with evolve gt)!
i thought at some point i'd get forced out of N group, but honestly it took a few days (one track weekend) to get everything done. These CRs are busy busy, lots of people want bumps, it's like a milestone, but you need to be assertive if you feel you are ready for the next level...and if you feel your ready you need to keep up with the elevator around the track...and THEN you should see some progression.

i recall in the 2015 season when i got evaluated in N group, there were 2 CRs that had to be comfortable with confirming the bump into the next skill group.

but my advice is: if you're ready, go, if you just want to be in I or A because your peers are riding in those groups, do not get bumped, you cannot return to the lower skill rider groups. and the ultimate goal is safety out on the track, no one is safe riding in a group way over or under-skilled compared to the people sharing the same track space/ time.

i'm guessing you got noticed, but may not have been assertive enough to get OK'ed by 2 CRs (which i believe is N2's policy)

don't be discouraged Rjack...i did 10 TDs last season, and pumped on the 8th or 9th one...
 
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