Adjustable rearsets knee down question

[DaveK22]

I have done about half dozen track days on street/track bikes and although came very close, never got the knee down. (Mostly because I was nervous about pushing things while on street rubber.) Now I have a new track only bike (05 GSXR 750) w/ proper track rubber so I'm hoping to change that. My last bike was GSXR 1000 & I had them set up/back. No need to talk about body positioning here, I have that well covered.

Question...what is the best setting for the rearsets for one trying to first get the knee down? If rearsets are positioned lower & forward a bit, will there be a risk of scraping the pegs before touching the knee? Or should I set higher & back and let time take its course?

Thanks in advance.

 

[brianspeed3]

You don't set rear set position based on trying to get your knee down. That will come in time once confidence in the bike grows. Rear sets should be set to achieve more ground clearance. If you focus on just getting your knee down, you will be sacrificing other things in the corner. You will start trying to "overwork" the corner just to get your knee down. As your speed and lean angle increases, your knee will find the ground. Getting your knee down should not be a goal (yes its fun and looks cool), but it is a reference point for you once your in the corner to get an idea of your lean angle and how far you can lean the bike before you start dragging hard parts. Focus more on proper body position and and technique and I promise it will come in time.

 

[brianspeed3]

Plus if you are just trying to get your knee down, you will be running through knee pucks pretty quick once you do get it down. GO back and watch alot of pro racers, you will see them make contact with their knee on the ground and then slightly lift their knee. Maybe not all the way off the ground, but they wont be putting any pressure on the knee. Too much preasure through your knee will lift the bike slightly not letting the tire do their job. Very small amount but still there. Once your knee touches, just try to think, "ok , there is the ground, I know i am at max lean" and take some pressure off your knee keeping that same lean angle. Just let it float over the ground.

 

[motorkas]

^:agree:

No need to talk about body positioning here, I have that well covered.

Believe me. . .no. . .no you don't. . .the day you get satisfied with one aspect of your riding, that's the day you stop working on it. Truthfully, you're the first person I've actually heard say they "have body position covered". . .with everyone else a:) it's usually the first thing they say they still have to work on. . .Depending on the day and what tracks you ride, look us up and try to get in on a "Lenny Clinic" - dropped seconds off my brother's and I lap times and it was solely focused on body, foot position. The good news is that everybody will try to help you (not necessarily trying to get your knee down but with the basics for riding faster which will get your knee down. . .(not trying to jump on you, just trying to help - and coincidently - good body position is the easiest way to get a knee down. . .:cheers.

 

[motorkas]

Oh yeah, totally forgot to answer the question I have my rearsets set up according to the following: When I'm straight up and down, my knees lock into the indent in the gas tank (for braking). When I'm hanging off the bike, my outside knee is locked against the tank and has enough support that I can hang off the bike without my hands touching the clip ons (put your bike in a chock and up on the rear stands to make the adjustments) take it to the track and take notes. . .and remember - once you get the right settings LOCTITE EVERY BOLT AND SCREW ON THE REARSETS. . .and even after you do that - visually inspect your rearset for loose bolts after every session. . .believe me, ask anybody running aftermarket rearsets about bolts coming loose (doesn't matter the brand or who installed them:cheers:

 

[HondaGalToo]

I agree with what brianspeed and motorkas have written. Just the fact that you think rearset position is what enables a rider to get a knee down tells me you do not have body positioning "well covered". Getting a knee down is wholly the by-product of good body position and corner speed. It will just naturally happen when those two things are correct. In fact, if your only goal becomes trying to get a knee down, you will actually sacrifice good body position. As others have mentioned, get with a CR this season and work on body position and other techniques. Probably not what you want to hear since you think you have it covered, but trust us, after only a half-dozen trackdays you don't. ALL of us, from B to CR, are always finding something new to learn or improve upon. Even the pros still take schools to improve their skills. None of us ever have it all down perfectly. Freddie Spencer said he maybe did one perfect lap in his entire career.

Another consideration is proper FOOT position.

Better yet, take a school. YCRS is awesome.

Rearsets? I set mine based on what slots they'd fit in on my gixxer's adjustable plates without hitting my after market exhaust. That's as much thought as went into that. I have them basically in the stock position. Couldn't raise them to the highest point as the exhaust exhaust/bracket wouldn't work.

 

[jimgl3]

you know it's funny, but the better i get, the less my knee goes down.

 

[Spork]

Concur with above -
I put my my rearsets all the way up and back - Touching pegs can cause you rear wheel to be come un weighted and lead to bad things - trust me I know !
I also have issue with Dragging toe sliders , being 6'2" with size 13 sidi's i'm either dragging a toe or getting my heal jammed in swing arm .
I used to drag my knee all the time , As I improved laptime's and learned proper technique's I didn't even need to come close to putting knee down to drop seconds on lap times . Currenty I keep my knee sucked against the bike except in the lowest corners , because I'm cheep and don't wanna pay for knee pucks .

 

[vinny337]

You should get your suspension set for your weight, then CONCENTRATE on the more inportant aspects of riding like body position, braking, hitting your apex, looking into the turns, shifting, etc. I get when you're new and at your level the first thing you want to do is get your knee down, most of us have been. Like others have mentioned I rarely drag my new.

 

[DaveK22]

motorkas;n592890 wrote: ^:agree:




Believe me. . .no. . .no you don't. . .the day you get satisfied with one aspect of your riding, that's the day you stop working on it. Truthfully, you're the first person I've actually heard say they "have body position covered". . .with everyone else a:) it's usually the first thing they say they still have to work on. . .Depending on the day and what tracks you ride, look us up and try to get in on a "Lenny Clinic" - dropped seconds off my brother's and I lap times and it was solely focused on body, foot position. The good news is that everybody will try to help you (not necessarily trying to get your knee down but with the basics for riding faster which will get your knee down. . .(not trying to jump on you, just trying to help - and coincidently - good body position is the easiest way to get a knee down. . .:cheers.

Let me clarify. There are already tons of sources for referencing proper body positioning technique, i.e. track org forums, youtube videos, Control Riders, to name a few. Rarely does the actual rearset positioning (assuming they're adjustable) get mentioned. Yes, I know it isn't all just "about the knee".

 

[vinny337]

Dave, If we're out on the same trackday let me know and I'll work with you (not to drag knee) to work on the basics.

 

[HondaGalToo]

DaveK22;n592910 wrote:

Let me clarify. There are already tons of sources for referencing proper body positioning technique, i.e. track org forums, youtube videos, Control Riders, to name a few. Rarely does the actual rearset positioning (assuming they're adjustable) get mentioned. Yes, I know it isn't all just "about the knee".

Rearset position likely isn't mentioned because it really has very little, if anything, to do with allowing a rider to get a knee down. Where you place your rearsets is more about personal comfort/fit on the bike, and has little to do with allowing your knee to touch. Take vinny up on his offer to work with you this upcoming season. It's all about body and foot position, not rearset placement. :cheers:

 

[jcrich]

DaveK22;n592910 wrote:

Rarely does the actual rearset positioning (assuming they're adjustable) get mentioned. Yes, I know it isn't all just "about the knee".

There is a really good reason for that. Can you guess what it is? Did you know that it is possible to get a knee down with stock rearsets? :cheers:

 

[motorkas]

DaveK22;n592910 wrote:

Let me clarify. There are already tons of sources for referencing proper body positioning technique, i.e. track org forums, youtube videos, Control Riders, to name a few. Rarely does the actual rearset positioning (assuming they're adjustable) get mentioned. Yes, I know it isn't all just "about the knee".

Dave, believe me, not trying to belittle you in any way and if it came across that way my apologies!!!! It's just that in this sport I've learned that the easiest way to progress the quickest (including dragging knee) is to listen to others because they (especial me) have made the mistakes and it's our sincere hope that by telling you now, you don't have to repeat them. I can pretty much guarantee the following:

1) we all were obsessed with dragging knee before we dragged knee
2) the first time scarred the shit out of us, then we ran to our closest person we knew and showed them our freshly scuffed puck
3) then the disappointment of how little the puck gets scuffed sets in
4) then the next couple of days are spent working on little else than to scuff them up more and putting knee down everywhere
5) then we realized that to go faster, the knee has to be down the LEAST amount of time
6) then we start mentally preparing the "ok the second it touches down, bring it back in, as soon as you start to stand the bike up, leg comes in. . ."

The point is, once you start getting to the lean angles that put the possiblility of putting your knee down into the mix, your margins for error are exponentially decreasing, if you don't have the basics down and are diligent about them. . .game over. To paraphrase a certain rapper "Life is not a Nintendo game. . .you don't get to hit a reset button". The reason why proper body position is stressed so much is because it gives you a stupid amount of control over a motorcycle that has the potential of getting out control very quickly. When your're leaned over and your suspension compresses and rebounds to the point your feet come off the pegs, or you push the front, or the rear lets go. . .first comes the ability to not panic, but that is greatly added by being set up correctly to give you the greatest amount of control of the situation.

The reason why the replies may seem "short" is because in the amount of time it took to type this reply we could have gone over so much more track side. . .that's why everyone is saying hook up with us at the track. . .so much more info can be given and it can be applied immediately in the next session. . .

 

[Lenny ZX9R]

Hey Dave! You have received some great advice from Kas, Judy, Vin and others!
I cannot stress enough your body position! This is the most basic skill that we have to learn to "get a knee down".


If you happen to bump into any of the for-mentioned folks or me we'll be happy to show you "The Dance"

 

[Otto Man]

motorkas;n592925 wrote:

Dave, believe me, not trying to belittle you in any way and if it came across that way my apologies!!!! It's just that in this sport I've learned that the easiest way to progress the quickest (including dragging knee) is to listen to others because they (especial me) have made the mistakes and it's our sincere hope that by telling you now, you don't have to repeat them. I can pretty much guarantee the following:

1) we all were obsessed with dragging knee before we dragged knee
2) the first time scarred the shit out of us, then we ran to our closest person we knew and showed them our freshly scuffed puck
3) then the disappointment of how little the puck gets scuffed sets in
4) then the next couple of days are spent working on little else than to scuff them up more and putting knee down everywhere
5) then we realized that to go faster, the knee has to be down the LEAST amount of time
6) then we start mentally preparing the "ok the second it touches down, bring it back in, as soon as you start to stand the bike up, leg comes in. . ."

The point is, once you start getting to the lean angles that put the possiblility of putting your knee down into the mix, your margins for error are exponentially decreasing, if you don't have the basics down and are diligent about them. . .game over. To paraphrase a certain rapper "Life is not a Nintendo game. . .you don't get to hit a reset button". The reason why proper body position is stressed so much is because it gives you a stupid amount of control over a motorcycle that has the potential of getting out control very quickly. When your're leaned over and your suspension compresses and rebounds to the point your feet come off the pegs, or you push the front, or the rear lets go. . .first comes the ability to not panic, but that is greatly added by being set up correctly to give you the greatest amount of control of the situation.

The reason why the replies may seem "short" is because in the amount of time it took to type this reply we could have gone over so much more track side. . .that's why everyone is saying hook up with us at the track. . .so much more info can be given and it can be applied immediately in the next session. . .

This...hit the nail on the head.

 

[vzhulin]

Great thread, excellent advice here.

 

[scotman623]

Lots of GREAT info!!! I use to love hanging out with some local sportbike riders and listen to them talk.. (He has chicken strips on his tires, he must be slow or You know your fast when you get your knee down). Love how 99% of them talked BS and really all needed riding school. I have stock rearsets and can drag knee at will, yes it is fun at first but then you realize the knee is just a reference point like stated above.. It will happen!!!

 

[Thunderace]

I think my first two years riding I went through 3-4 sets of pucks. I currently have the same set of pucks since 2009. I normally do about 15 days a year to put it into perspective.

 

[Mikey75702]

DaveK22;n592910 wrote:

Let me clarify. There are already tons of sources for referencing proper body positioning technique, i.e. track org forums, youtube videos, Control Riders, to name a few. Rarely does the actual rearset positioning (assuming they're adjustable) get mentioned. Yes, I know it isn't all just "about the knee".

Ideally you would want your rearsets up (and probably back) as far as comfortable. You need to make sure that they are high enough to not interfere when at full lean, but you dont want them so high that they are uncomfortable either. If you like the stock rearsets, leave them for a while. They will be fine, if you have adjustable ones, take the time and try out at every position you can put them in. Heck, once you pick a position, you may even go back and change them after a while. I rode with mine all the way up and back all through B group, then as my body position got better I felt like I never could quite lock into the tank properly. I moved my rearsets forward an inch, and was surprised at how much of a difference it made.