ATP training on non-ATP days

[Mike:p]

Is it possible to get ATP training when it’s not currently offered on a specific date. I understand the answer is probably NO for many reasons that have to do with scheduling and costs but hear me out.
I have 07 FZ6 that I have rode for the last 10 years and at every track day I have ever attended. It has a very upright riding position compared to my “new to me” 09 CBR. I have the opportunity to attend 2 full weekends this year. One will definitely be Barber. The other one will be some time during the summer but all of the dates that I can possibly attend don’t fall on an ATP date.
I’m willing to pay more, within reason, than the standard ATP price since this is a special case. Yes, I know that the ATP is offered at Barber I just want to get my riding “right” from the beginning with this bike. I am also aware that the CRs are there to help and they have been when I needed them but I think it would be unfair to the other riders for the amount of attention that would be asking of the CRs.

 

[Otto Man]

There have been times in the past were N2 has done unscheduled ATP days. The biggest influence is the numbers of riders - there has to be enough riders to justify the logistics required, ATP specific course material and having enough qualified staff to teach it (As those guys aren't CR'ing with the normal groups). And of course they need enough of a heads up to plan accordingly. I have no doubt if you could bend some of your buddies ears into agreeing on a specific day, with enough interest N2 will make something happen. I don't recall the number of people needed - 4, 6 maybe? I'm not 100% sure.

Completely understand the difference of bikes, but the best part of the ATP program is it's designed to train YOU...and is not bike specific. You will not learn something that you can only use on your CBR but not your FZ. Not being bike specific allows you to use it any time you're on 2 wheels, and some of the things translate into driving a car as well.

 

[Mike:p]

I completely understand what you’re saying about not being bike specific, all bikes operate the same when it comes to the laws of physics. But one of my biggest issues is a horrible body position when on the track. My FZ’s upright position doesn’t help there, it’s great for the street and doing simple upper body shifts. However, I’m kinda hoping that the CBR will be like a clean slate and with the help of the ATP.

 

[Mike:p]

There have been times in the past were N2 has done unscheduled ATP days. The biggest influence is the numbers of riders - there has to be enough riders to justify the logistics required, ATP specific course material and having enough qualified staff to teach it (As those guys aren't CR'ing with the normal groups). And of course they need enough of a heads up to plan accordingly. I have no doubt if you could bend some of your buddies ears into agreeing on a specific day, with enough interest N2 will make something happen. I don't recall the number of people needed - 4, 6 maybe? I'm not 100% sure.

Completely understand the difference of bikes, but the best part of the ATP program is it's designed to train YOU...and is not bike specific. You will not learn something that you can only use on your CBR but not your FZ. Not being bike specific allows you to use it any time you're on 2 wheels, and some of the things translate into driving a car as well.

John, after reading my last reply to what you said it sounded rude. I thank you for your quick response and getting me the answer I was looking for. People like you are one of the biggest reasons that I ride with N2.

 

[Otto Man]

You weren’t rude in the least, trust me! I work in a dog eat dog environment anyways, you gotta have thick skin to survive. Hope to see you out on track sometime this year!

 

[tdelegram]

John knows rude, trust me.

 

[D-Zum]

John knows rude, trust me.

You rang? ;-)

 

[adotjdot]

Is it possible to get ATP training when it’s not currently offered on a specific date. I understand the answer is probably NO for many reasons that have to do with scheduling and costs but hear me out.
I have 07 FZ6 that I have rode for the last 10 years and at every track day I have ever attended. It has a very upright riding position compared to my “new to me” 09 CBR. I have the opportunity to attend 2 full weekends this year. One will definitely be Barber. The other one will be some time during the summer but all of the dates that I can possibly attend don’t fall on an ATP date.
I’m willing to pay more, within reason, than the standard ATP price since this is a special case. Yes, I know that the ATP is offered at Barber I just want to get my riding “right” from the beginning with this bike. I am also aware that the CRs are there to help and they have been when I needed them but I think it would be unfair to the other riders for the amount of attention that would be asking of the CRs.

Hey Mike! Sorry about jumping in late on this. Definitely let us know they dates you are looking at attending besides Barber and we can see if it is something we can organize. You can reply here but you may also want to reach out to support@n2td.org or info@n2td.org. This will get the direct attention of the Directors who will be able to address whether we can support an ATP event at the days you are planning to attend.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Mike:p]

Thanks AJ. I will keep that in mind. I’m in hopes that I can make Roebling May 26 and 27 so I can pick up the ATP there, but it’s only a 50/50 chance right now. If I can’t make it I will email them asap to give everyone as much time as possible.

 

[rob92]

I completely understand what you’re saying about not being bike specific, all bikes operate the same when it comes to the laws of physics. But one of my biggest issues is a horrible body position when on the track. My FZ’s upright position doesn’t help there, it’s great for the street and doing simple upper body shifts. However, I’m kinda hoping that the CBR will be like a clean slate and with the help of the ATP.

Mike, with the FZ, it just requires a lot more upper body. Done properly, you can ride the wheels of those things.

 

[CBRtist]

Mike... as an MSF instructor, as mentioned, you might be able to round up some instructors to do this. At one point, I met with Delaware MSF heads about them considering ATP as a level after cert. for Advanced Rider Class (for instructors or riders). It just seems like a logical step. Seems to me sometimes such a logical integration, but it hasn't happened quite yet (hell, we even have an MSF course painted in paddock at our NJ track - there has to be a connect there). Anyhow, that was my theory... in practice it somehow fizzled out.

 

[Mike:p]

Mike, with the FZ, it just requires a lot more upper body. Done properly, you can ride the wheels of those things.

Yeah there’s the catch. “Done properly” I’m not disagreeing with you but my skills are not there yet. I’m thinking it might be easier to learn the skills on the CBR than once I have the skills I can use them on any bike. Does that sound right? What do you think?

Side question: Do you have to ride the same bike for the entire day when taking the ATP?

 

[Mike:p]

Mike... as an MSF instructor, as mentioned, you might be able to round up some instructors to do this. At one point, I met with Delaware MSF heads about them considering ATP as a level after cert. for Advanced Rider Class (for instructors or riders). It just seems like a logical step. Seems to me sometimes such a logical integration, but it hasn't happened quite yet (hell, we even have an MSF course painted in paddock at our NJ track - there has to be a connect there). Anyhow, that was my theory... in practice it somehow fizzled out.

Wendy I have been trying to get some MSF coaches to come with me every time I go to the track. Everyone has an excuse, well almost everyone. A few instructors act as if they know everything and say that they won’t pay someone to teach them things they already know. It’s laughable. I think in their mind’s they will embarrass the CRs or they will advance straight to the advanced group. I find it ironic that at the end of every class all the coaches basically say “you never stop learning” but none of them will go to a track day with or without me.

 

[rob92]

Yeah there’s the catch. “Done properly” I’m not disagreeing with you but my skills are not there yet. I’m thinking it might be easier to learn the skills on the CBR than once I have the skills I can use them on any bike. Does that sound right? What do you think?

Side question: Do you have to ride the same bike for the entire day when taking the ATP?

Mike, I'll always focus on the skills/training and treat the bike as secondary. That said, I'm just saying that you "can" do it and the bike is capable. Ride the bike that makes you most comfortable.
You are welcome to ride whatever bike you like or change it up when needed.

 

[bmart]

Wendy I have been trying to get some MSF coaches to come with me every time I go to the track. Everyone has an excuse, well almost everyone. A few instructors act as if they know everything and say that they won’t pay someone to teach them things they already know. It’s laughable. I think in their mind’s they will embarrass the CRs or they will advance straight to the advanced group. I find it ironic that at the end of every class all the coaches basically say “you never stop learning” but none of them will go to a track day with or without me.

Roger that. I know a bunch of MSF instructors. Only one who comes to track days, and it usually involves a crash, mechanical failure, etc. The rest enjoy endlessly talking about how they want to come but can't seem to make it happen. I'm not knocking them. What we do is nearly a different thing that happens to use most of the same tools. Still, I think that they could benefit from the new skills, training methods, etc. We would welcome them with open arms...

 

[CBRtist]

A few instructors act as if they know everything and say that they won’t pay someone to teach them things they already know.

Although I wasn't that pompous, pretty much the same premise why I thought that I could pass MSF Rider Coach (Damn muscle memory. Did ok in written, range exercises, but couldn't DO the damn range without leaning... using one finger on brake... I remember I started counting points and once I had in my head I failed, I just did the rest of the course with both hands up throwing deuces, swerving... knocking cones left and right lol).

I have huge admiration for MSF Coaches, like John Farrel esp., who can switch between the two realms easily. For me... impossible, and for those coaches, they will find out how hard it really is to "flip" a switch". All the more reason why I'd love them to come out and am organizing a track tour for them to do so (without their egos getting bruised). Too bad you are't up North. I bet I could make it happen lol.

 

[bmart]

I've done this: http://www.bikesafenc.com/

I'd like to do this: http://amgrass.com/

 

[Mike:p]

I've done this: http://www.bikesafenc.com/

I'd like to do this: http://amgrass.com/

Great Another addiction to feed!

 

[Mike:p]

It’s looking like I will be able to attend Roebling at the end of May. I will pick up the ATP there. So Jim you better start that petition to keep me out now. On a side topic that pertain to the ATP should I bring up my own goals/concerns with the CR before we hit the track or should let them evaluate me on the track first. Or is what I’m asking a moot point and they do all that anyway. I guess what I really want to know how ATP day runs.

 

[Mike:p]

Forget that last question about how the day goes when taking an ATP. I found the information on the N2 home page. Duh