CR's in A group. . .

motorkas

Member
It's been a couple of years since I've worked with a CR for a session. The funny thing is, this has been a conversation that I've had with other A group riders for a while now. . ."wouldn't it be cool that when we're hitting walls with our riding, we could work with a CR at our natural A pace?".

We understand the challenges with formalizing this process (as we get to see first hand all it is that CR's do on a normal day) so we take it upon ourselves to do it informally. There hasn't been a day where somebody hasn't come up to the group I'm with and say "hey, I'm having problems in this section of the track, you want to play a little and see if you see anything?"

The same goes for myself and the guys (and ladies) I ride with seeking out other faster riders in A group (often CR's) and posing the same question to them. Typically, it's almost always the same: line up together, go out and watch (or be watched) for a lap or two. . .they pass and show you a thing or two at a reduced pace. . .somebody we know passes. . . the race is on. . .the lesson abruptly over. There's always a debrief back in the pits with great tips and advice. . .but nothing even remotely as formalized as working with a CR in B or I group.

Sooooooooo, this Monday at Main when a certain Dragon Lady asked if I wanted to work with Emerson as a test for "A group CRing and give feedback" I didn't hesitate (pretty sure my exact reply was "F@#K YEEEAAAAHHHH". I tracked down the big guy. . .we set the time for the 2:00pm session. . .and after several years I got to work with a CR again in a structured and formalized way. . .AND I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH I MISSED IT.

In 12 minutes of track time, I dropped a second off my lap time (while keeping the bike in 4 gear on the straights since Emerson is on a 600 and I'm. . .not:D) broke harder and later going into T1 T5 and T10, and was a lot more liberal with throttle application coming out of turns. What really got me was how much more focused I was during the whole experience.

In the 10-15 mins of debrief time afterwards, I came away with a plan to work on for the rest of the day: quicker transition to throttle out of T2, later turn in for T3. wider line for entry into T4, hit the apex at T6, utilize the whole track and stay on the wider exit line for T9 and T10. . .all of which was driven home by watching the go pro Emerson had set up to tape me and what I was doing.

Simply put, this Monday was one of the best track days I've had in recent memory. . .and it had mostly to do with that 2:00pm session with Emerson. Without a doubt, the friendships (and riding with them) contribute greatly to my enjoyment of track days but we all have had "those days" in our riding career that we'll probably never forget. For me, some of them do involve mixing it up with friends but without a doubt, most of "those days" involved pushing personal boundaries (and the betterment of myself and my riding that comes as a result). . .mostly, it seems, while following an orange shirt.

I can't thank Shiloh and Emerson enough for giving me one more of those days to add to the list (and making me a better rider in the short amount of time we got to run that "test"). I even got to smile at the deja vu of seeing someone riding one handed, looking over his shoulder back at me. . .while giving me the "MOOOORRRRREEEEE THROTTLE" sign. . .when I swore I was at the "limit" . . .:rofl:).

If there's anyway to formalize this for A group, please do it. . .I know a lot of people who would gladly take advantage of this!

Big guy (and lady). . . THANK YOU AGAIN!!!!!
 

fowlplayracing

Steve
Control Rider
I wanted to convey the very same thing and so thanks for doing it. I got a lesson from Emerson too and I was looking over your shoulder at the video footage so I know exactly what you mean!
 

tdelegram

Control Rider
I agree that formalizing it is a great idea, I know I try to take advantage of any CR willing to slow down and turn laps with me, fortunately I had Dave Sanders to play with and on main I was really able leverage my hp advantage and try to push my braking and corner speed chasing Dave down. I can only thank Emmerson for the hard passes and waves of encouragement.
 

Lenny ZX9R

Control Rider
If asked by any "A" rider I would be more than happy to give you advanced instruction! Just ask! Well go out and get the tires warm and run some good laps and we'll see how we can improve!
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
YES!! I have been requesting this. If it can be implemented on a regular basis and formalized, it would be great. I like the idea of it being somewhat "formal", whereas a meet time is set with the CR, and they commit to working with you for that session. Otherwise, you never seem to be able to track anyone down, at least that's been my experience. Folks get busy, so committing to a particular session is what is needed.

This is awesome, and I'm glad it is happening.
 

rsr

Chung bungdert
My turn!!! My turn!!
Shiloh came up to me and asked me if I wanted to be the first to experience the new concept of riding with a cr. I was very excited since it's been a while since I've gotten feedback on my riding. It all started with Emerson following me for a couple of laps. Then I did some following, it was so much fun cause we turned up the pace. At my first chance I got up front again to see if he saw some improvement and we started really hauling ass... but I should've known better than to try to run at that pace with the toasted front tire I had on the bike...
Lowsided in 5... but none the less I learned a lot and am definetly gonna grab the next cr assigned to a group this Sunday and Monday in jersey!!!
Bike is all rebuilt and ready!!!
It's a great idea!!! Can't wait to rip it up again!!!
Nipster nipper nip!!!
 

adotjdot

Control Rider
ATP/3C
This is a great post and thanks to Kas for starting it! Love to hear where he was able to make improvements and what he was working on. As people start doing this more please post up the results of your day. What you were working on, where you improved, etc. Would love to hear more!
 

Lenny ZX9R

Control Rider
I'd really like to do this so PLEASE grab me before I start talking to whoever so we can get out there and work on stuff!;)
 

Smoke30

Nick
Control Rider
First off: Thank You to N2, Shiloh, and Emerson for giving the 'CR in A' idea a try!

I got the 4PM(Last session of the day) run with Emerson. I won't lie I was feeling really tired after working Shenny and Main. The front tire had started to drop a good bit as well, nonetheless: I wanted my CR Session!

As always it's a humbling experience riding with a talented rider... especially if he is waiting on you and giving you feedback vs just blowing the doors off haha.

In short. I am all for the A Group CR.

At the start of the weekend I usually have a good idea of things that I want to work on. However the feedback and GoPro video from Emerson’s camera have redirected my goals and priorities in order to improve even further. It would have probably taken me several more days to see the areas where I am lacking. The feedback while on track as well as off track was very revealing and it was also nice to compare strengths. Overall really happy with the experience. I can't wait to go back on track and work on what Emerson explained as well as what I saw on the video.

From what I've seen the riding in A is very clean so I don't see a CR giving slashes across the throat in A haha I see the roll of an A Group CR more as a great step towards rider improvement and something that will yield an overall better experience for the riders.

Traditionally the mentality has been: Get that bump from B to I and I to A....but once in A: Every man for themselves! If anything I've always seen A as the stage where the real work begins, where a push can be made in order to improve and progress. I'm of the slow learner kind of rider so having someone point things out (good and bad) can only help ease the learning curve.

I do hope that this does continue!

-Smoke
 

sSalopek

Control Rider
Director
Thanks for all the great feedback guys!

The format would be very similar as to how we ran it at Summit Point. I (or the director for the day) will announce and introduce the Advanced Group CR or CRs at the morning meeting and from that point it would be the riders responsibility to seek them out and setup a session to go turn some laps. The CR will not be wearing a shirt and there would not be any special passing rules or anything of that sort so it would not disrupt the normal flow of our Advanced group.

We would absolutely love to hear feedback on this (positive and negative). If you think this sounds like something that you would be interested in let us know because if there is a big interest in this we can make it more of a standard at trackdays.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
Thanks for all the great feedback guys!

The format would be very similar as to how we ran it at Summit Point. I (or the director for the day) will announce and introduce the Advanced Group CR or CRs at the morning meeting and from that point it would be the riders responsibility to seek them out and setup a session to go turn some laps. The CR will not be wearing a shirt and there would not be any special passing rules or anything of that sort so it would not disrupt the normal flow of our Advanced group.

We would absolutely love to hear feedback on this (positive and negative). If you think this sounds like something that you would be interested in let us know because if there is a big interest in this we can make it more of a standard at trackdays.
My season is over this year, but I would DEFINITELY take advantage of this next season. Thanks for getting it going!!!!
 

tdelegram

Control Rider
Question is, if this takes off, as we think it will, would we see multiple CR's added to cater to the A groups demand or will it be first come first serve and only 7 riders per day. I think we need to have the ability to flex up or down with the demand as well as potentially formalizing the schedule/attendee's ahead of time. For example, I would sign up for a preferred session ahead of time (second session after lunch), rather than waiting until the morning of as well as select a CR's once I know who the options are. Additionally, if you sign up and don't show is there a penalty? I think that Main was a great experiment but like all things in a club that is mature and well run we need to lay out the process, whether it is voted on and agreed to here or the powers that be state this is how we will operationalize this, there needs to be something more than the basic tenants of we'll put a CR in A.

PS writing this at a client site while I am in full consulting mode so some of that might be bleeding through.
 

sSalopek

Control Rider
Director
Question is, if this takes off, as we think it will, would we see multiple CR's added to cater to the A groups demand or will it be first come first serve and only 7 riders per day. I think we need to have the ability to flex up or down with the demand as well as potentially formalizing the schedule/attendee's ahead of time. For example, I would sign up for a preferred session ahead of time (second session after lunch), rather than waiting until the morning of as well as select a CR's once I know who the options are. Additionally, if you sign up and don't show is there a penalty? I think that Main was a great experiment but like all things in a club that is mature and well run we need to lay out the process, whether it is voted on and agreed to here or the powers that be state this is how we will operationalize this, there needs to be something more than the basic tenants of we'll put a CR in A.

PS writing this at a client site while I am in full consulting mode so some of that might be bleeding through.

If the need was there we absolutely would have more than 1 CR for that day (that's why I said CR or CRs :p)

Ok so you have great ideas but I think you're thinking too much into it. If we are able to merge our ATP to our Advanced group then absolutely it would be more formalized as you are recommending in which the price would also reflect.

But also keep in mind that this is a no extra charge service. I can post up before an event in the roll call thread which CR or CR's I will be using for that event and you could talk to them prior to the event, that would be no problem. Only certain CR's will be eligible for this opportunity so it would also depend on how many of them we would have at that particular event and to make sure the other groups were covered first. This is more of an added benefit for riders in which they do not have to pay extra for. If the interest is there for a more formalized program then we can begin discussing merging ATP to advanced participants as well.
 

fowlplayracing

Steve
Control Rider
We would absolutely love to hear feedback on this (positive and negative).

Not sure how long Emerson rode behind me before he made his presence known but the short time he was in front of me and the feedback provided afterwards was awesome!
(And correct)
Definitely a positive vote from me!
 

ar556

New Member
If the need was there we absolutely would have more than 1 CR for that day (that's why I said CR or CRs :p)

Ok so you have great ideas but I think you're thinking too much into it. If we are able to merge our ATP to our Advanced group then absolutely it would be more formalized as you are recommending in which the price would also reflect.

But also keep in mind that this is a no extra charge service. I can post up before an event in the roll call thread which CR or CR's I will be using for that event and you could talk to them prior to the event, that would be no problem. Only certain CR's will be eligible for this opportunity so it would also depend on how many of them we would have at that particular event and to make sure the other groups were covered first. This is more of an added benefit for riders in which they do not have to pay extra for. If the interest is there for a more formalized program then we can begin discussing merging ATP to advanced participants as well.

Bumping an old thread here, but did this ever become a thing? I got the bump to A at the end of last year and dropped a couple seconds off my lap times between then and the beginning of this year just by having some faster guys (and girls) to chase around out there. I feel like I plateaued pretty quickly after that initial improvement though. I remember the CR saying "There's nothing left for us to teach you here, you're going to A" on the day I got bumped and immediately thinking to myself "What??? I'm far from done learning..." haha. It would be great if we could still get that personal attention once in a while for feedback, pointers, etc.

Also, regarding the bold portion, is ATP not available for A group riders? I took it once before and the improvements I made on that day alone were awesome. I had been kicking around the idea of taking another one soon.
 

adotjdot

Control Rider
ATP/3C
Bumping an old thread here, but did this ever become a thing? I got the bump to A at the end of last year and dropped a couple seconds off my lap times between then and the beginning of this year just by having some faster guys (and girls) to chase around out there. I feel like I plateaued pretty quickly after that initial improvement though. I remember the CR saying "There's nothing left for us to teach you here, you're going to A" on the day I got bumped and immediately thinking to myself "What??? I'm far from done learning..." haha. It would be great if we could still get that personal attention once in a while for feedback, pointers, etc.

Also, regarding the bold portion, is ATP not available for A group riders? I took it once before and the improvements I made on that day alone were awesome. I had been kicking around the idea of taking another one soon.
All right, who was this CR that said you have nothing left to learn? I will hunt them down and punish them accordingly! ;-)

Seriously though. The CR in A group has not materialized but as a member you can always seek out a CR for help during a session. Also, ATP is absolutely open to A group riders and we encourage joining in.

We ALL continue to learn. Even the GP guys continue to hone their skills.

Don't hesitate to reach out at your next event. When will you be out again?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
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