Less CR coaching then I'm use to

Discussion in 'Member Feedback' started by Mike:p, May 24, 2016.

  1. Mike:p

    Mike:p Don’t be a Hero, be consistent.

    First and foremost let me say this is not a complaint. It's more of a question and an apology.
    I have completed a grand total of 5 track days since I started back in October of 2014. First one at Lightning, 2nd and 3rd at Barber last year, and 4th and 5th at PittRace last weekend. I have begun to notice a trend with the amount of feedback I'm getting. It has become less with each track day. Now I'm not saying that it is a bad thing but is that normally what happens? I generally don't ask for too much attention from the CRs because I figure if they see something I can improve on they will bring it to my attention. Am I correct in my thinking? I know they are very busy especially in novice group and I know that they don't mind at all to help if I was to ask. I have asked specific questions and got excellent answers in the past.
    Now that being said I feel I owe one of the CRs an apology. I'm not sure which one because I didn't catch their name. He told me I should try to brake later, to which I replied "I would but I'm trying to create space before the curve if I'm behind a slower rider." Thinking back on it now he was trying to help and I shut him down, for that I'm sorry and that was rude of me. Later that day I was speaking to another CR, Jack I think, and telling them about my frustration I was having with the larger displacement bikes and how I couldn't get past them because they were slow in the corners but faster once they opened the throttle on the straights. He told me to beat them on the brakes when entering a curve. Meaning brake later because he knew I could do it safely. Which is what the other CR tried to tell me earlier that day.
    Long story short I had a great time. Just thinking back on things.
  2. Motofun352

    Motofun352 Control Rider

    Hi Mike, tried to catch you in that one session but it didn't work out,...sorry about that.
  3. Mike:p

    Mike:p Don’t be a Hero, be consistent.

    I know and I remember. That's what I'm saying, if I ask help is available. I asked you for some advice and you your happy to help. The fact that you got held up in hot pit is not a reflection on you, it's just how life turns out sometimes.
  4. CBRtist

    CBRtist La Loca Staff Member

    Hola Mike! Hopefully me, and some others, can clear up some confusion and frustrations regarding this.

    I'm taking your background into consideration when I say that CRing is a different type of instruction. There are many variables on any given day that CRs must consider and manage in addition to observing riders and instructing. Some of the factors include ratio of CRs to riders, spotting and tracking offenders, managing traffic, aspects of individual tracks, maintaining safety... all the while with no means of verbal communication between them. I know you are also familiar with people who are new to motorcycles and how unpredictable they can be. It's not really a "trend", it just you not witnessing these moving parts in play. It's quite an overwhelming job and oftentimes I wonder, and am thankful, they volunteer to do it. Even I, after all the time I have been riding with N2, will have days where I could have a "CR parade", and other times I don't speak to a CR all day (nor have I approached one, which I know they would be very receptive to if I did).

    I wouldn't be too concerned with that CR thinking you blew him off. I can only imagine how many times they have heard that... believe it or not, and thinking back, I've even said that. The best thing and most rewarding thing you can do for a CR, is carefully listen to what he said and then apply it. When they see that, it makes it all worth it. I understand that you may be doing that to avoid slower riders, and maybe there are some cases where you might need to do that, but could you apply what he said in other scenarios? Braking later is a fundamental (and one I continue to work on) in this sport.

    I understand your frustration regarding being in Novice and the larger bikes. Believe it or not (and I'm sure some knowing me, some CRs might think I'm telling a fish story) I have passed litre bikes on my 600. Granted, it has only been a scant number of times, and at NJMP on TB because I found "the sweet spot" on that track to do it... but it happens! I think the most exhilarating aspect of this sport is experiencing that frustration, analyzing it, then problem solving. Only, after you pass a litre.... I have learned pin it for dear life! I tried to line another litre bike at Pitt to pass several times, but just could not figure it out (you will find there is more than one way to skin a cat), so when I lost interest in that game, I pitted in and pitted back out on to an open track.

    Finally, here is some advice I give to new and not-as-seasoned Novice riders with their frustrations. Figure out what kind of rider you truly are based on your personality, then make the track experience work for YOU. For the longest time, I was placing expectations on myself that simply weren't me as a person or rider. I was placing expectation based on what I *thought* the track experience *should* be. We are here to make sure you have a great experience based on that. Once I accepted I'll never be a speed demon (nor do I get thrills from that) am more conservative, and into the nuances of riding and track technique (BP, learning to "see" the line, smooth controls, observing rider habits for passing...) things really started to click and now it's all fun, fun, fun. I'm still slow... but I'm happy. Happy to be old, a mom, and getting the opportunity to turn a wheel on some of these tracks. ;)
  5. Otto Man

    Otto Man John Control Rider

    Like Wendy said, the amount of CR time you get from track day to track day is never going to be exactly the same, for the reasons she listed. If you are seeking a more in-depth and personal assessment of your riding throughout the day, I'd suggest signing up for the ATP.

    We put a lot focus on the brand new track riders for obvious reasons - they have the most to learn and the steepest learning curve. Once you've done a couple days, and you're familiar with the schedule of a track day in general, you don't need as much guidance. This is also a great time to point out that there are a fair amount of riders that don't seek the guidance you're looking for, and seemingly don't want to be bothered with the lunch time class room sessions and such. Can't please everyone...

    I always tell riders to go out with a plan. You should be working on something every session, whether it's learning the track, braking deeper into the corner, hitting your apexes, etc. Just don't go out and turn laps, go out there with a purpose. If you don't have a goal, how can we help you get to where you want to be? You mentioned "if the CR would see something, they would tell me, right?" Ehhhhh...yes and no. You have to prioritize what you see out there. It is not uncommon to be working with a rider for a few laps, then come up on someone riding over their head, possibly stuffing other riders in corners, making unsafe passes, etc. So if I'm working with Wendy for those few laps and see this erratic rider, more than likely I'm going to let her do her own thing and go track down the rider and get them to slow down and/or have a talk with them. She can then wait for me at the end of the session at pit in and we can go over what we worked on before I went on to the other rider. However, what commonly happens, is that the riders head straight back to their pit so I never get the chance to talk to them. I spend an average of 5 minutes talking to a rider after their session. A CR probably sees 50% of the group every session, for at least a couple corners. With the average group size, you literally do not have the time to talk to every rider. Not to mention we also need some time to head back to our pit and put our warmers on, get a drink of water, etc. CR's wait at pit out at the end of every session for the riders, not for our own pleasure.

    Another common scenario is to talk with a rider after the session is over and hear them ask "So what did you think?" That opens up a huge can of worms. What did I think about what? Your body position? Line selection? Pace? Foot position? Passing ability? The weather? What? Come to us with a plan. "I was trying to work on cleaning up my lines, what do you think?" Telling us about your goals allows us to focus our attention to what you're trying to improve on.
  6. D-Zum

    D-Zum Alex's Dad

    If I were typing a response, I'd type EXACTLY what Otto Man just typed.

    You gotta go out there with a specific purpose, and a plan to that purpose. Ambiguity will get you nowhere fast.
    If in that plan, you find yourself struggling with something, THAT is where engaging a CR with a SPECIFIC question will be beneficial to accomplishing your purpose.
    Evil Cupcake, Lenny ZX9R and adotjdot like this.
  7. tdelegram

    tdelegram Control Rider

    I have asked John on several occasions, "what do you think". He responded I think you should retire from track riding???????
  8. raineman021

    raineman021 Eric Raine

    Treat each session as a mission to defeat (at least) one weak point - whether it is entry speed, trail braking, body position, a shift, an apex, braking distance, drive out of an apex or combinations of those things. I try to focus on setting out to accomplish at least one thing - That way as I do, I am not biting off more than I can chew. Then I move on to the next phase in the following session - Building on what I took from the former. TO BUILD CONSISTENCY
    Questions for CR's should be directed to which thing(s) you chose that session. That is my plan again next time out. It can only help make me better!
    Lenny ZX9R likes this.
  9. eskimo

    eskimo Slow guy on a fast bike

    Were you talking to Bob and I in the pits? That conversation sounds vaguely familiar.
  10. Mike:p

    Mike:p Don’t be a Hero, be consistent.

    Yup I remember now, sorry guys.
    I always go out with a purpose. When it was raining on Saturday, I spent all day learning the track. Breaking points, turn in points, getting my eyes up, bp right and so on. Sunday was hitting my apexs, as many as I could get in a row, and later working on my breaking. I wouldn't enjoy myself at the track unless I was working on something.
    eskimo, Lenny ZX9R and raineman021 like this.
  11. virtualsolitude

    virtualsolitude Musician, physician but mostly fond of fishin'.

    The info in this conversation thread is timeless and priceless. I see myself and some friends in pretty much everything Wendy, Ottoman and Nick P wrote. I'm studying the hell out of the information in this forum as I make my return to the track. I remember the experiences: frustrations, enlightenments, highs and lows, blah blah conveyed here.

    How is this NOT a stickie? And even if it is captured more formally some place on this site, the fact that it's coming from a relatively new, non-advanced-level rider (that I can relate to) is what compelled me to read this thread. Just saying. Thanks for posting Nick. And thanks for responding, Wendy (Super Mom) and Ottoman. :)
    CBRtist likes this.
  12. Mike:p

    Mike:p Don’t be a Hero, be consistent.

    I believe my name is Mike not Nick :laugh:
  13. TimTheAsian

    TimTheAsian Fresh off the Boat Staff Member

    Lots of good advice in here.

    Truest words ever spoken. I switched to a liter coming from a 675 thinking oh this is gonna be fun. Man I sucked on that thing. Real bad. Point and shoot was not my style, I love corner speed. Took a step back to remind myself why I was doing this and what I wanted out of this. Enter the greatest bike known to mankind - The SV650. I'm faster on the sv than the 1k on every track I've ridden.

    I also stopped going out and just riding. I now have 1 or two specific things I work on every time I go out. It has improved my riding a lot! Got bumped to the big boy group shortly thereafter.
    CBRtist likes this.
  14. virtualsolitude

    virtualsolitude Musician, physician but mostly fond of fishin'.

    Haha. Sorry about that Mike. I've no idea how that came about. Btw, my name is Mike also. Go figure...

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