Number one thing to improve NESBA

cliplizard

New Member
1. have rider seminar going on while track day is going on. NESBA's wealth is the CRs. Many of these guys have helped me just by relating their experiences on the track. As a beginner, i would like to go to a suspension, maintenance, riding position, tire or other short 20-30 minute seminar's during the day.
2. more family friendly; i would like to ask if i can bring a bounce house with me. my kids and others that i see, get bored after a few hours, then so do the wives. i have met riders who seem to need a little more support from family members. I would enjoy the track days better if my family was more involved. (sprinklers, tricycle races, a ride on the track...)
3. currently, the novice guys do two sessions. the beginner meetings seem to always run out of time for some while others dont need more time. maybe the novice guys could miss the first session, spend some time on riding technique, safety, whatever and then joing the second and third session.
4. when a rider "wants to be bumped" but may not be ready, maybe a CR could take that rider out with the next group. ive heard two guys who got bumped from B to I say "man, I group is too fast".
5. find a way to better encourage riders to support the track-side vendors. i dont see how Turn-One makes enough money to pay for gas, let alone trucks, tool and their time. maybe the track-side vendor could put on the seminars i mentioned in #1.
 

cagepasser

New Member
I can't help but notice the extremely poor turn out at Road America lately. The RA dates were sometimes scheduled with a Holiday and they were packed. The pits were like a race weekend 120 riders on the holiday, second day, not so much. Last event maybe fifty riders???. I know RA is an expensive and high demand track but the BIGGEST obstacle to get friends out there isn't just the money but the dates are during the week. I can't even get potential riders to come out and watch.

What happened to the membership drive? Is NESBA running out of operating cash due to the poor turn outs?

I am a bit of a social butter fly during track days and I like talking to my pit neighbors whether I know them or not. That is one of the great things about NESBA, I have yet to meet a cold shoulder.
:)
 

ridngsxrs

Member
I noticed at many NESBA events attendance is down. So, I asked questions and many either said the economy is preventing them or they went else where because of the $75.00 a year NESBA fee.

If possible maybe have more weekend dates? I know that the lack of weekend dates especially Road America is preventing me and fellow friend riders to participate.
 

stephenjpauls

New Member
gkotlin;63763 wrote: If your happy with the way things are, we're happy as well. But dream big! This is a think tank. So lets hear your thoughts. What would make a good time even better?
Ok I got one! Trackdays where the CRs don't hit the wall!:saythat:

Just kidding Greg!
 

A59

New Member
Unfortunatly this is a very expensive hobby/addiction. Most people simply can not afford it. And the thoughts of more business lowering prices, that'll never happen, unless we go on strike or protest, then probably not even possible. $75 isn't the issue, it's the 700 dollar weekends. People think I'm crazy for spending $9000 bucks in 07 on td's (days,tires,gas,etc.), I wish I could afford more. I like the atmosphere and the type of people who attend nesba events. It's all I would do if I could.

Improvements? Possibly a different rain policy. Partial credit if only a few people ride less than half a day.?
 

ronhix

New Member
A59;63827 wrote: People think I'm crazy for spending $9000 bucks in 07 on td's (days,tires,gas,etc.),
Try a race season, if you think track days are expensive!

Sorry to thread jack, back to regularly scheduled programming.
 

BlindGoldfish Z

New Member
I race as well, and as people know, a race weekend can hit $1,000+ easily. Even though I have it in my budget to spend that for a weekend, it was still hard for me to justify spending a measly $75 to register for NESBA JUST so I could register for other track days. I'm not sure how much you would have to increase trackday fees to break even for eliminating the membership fee, but if it is only $10 it may be worth it. The perception of money and fees for people is weird and isn't fully understood by marketers or psychologist (something I studied in undergrad and grad school). Without knowing how many new members you have every year or what your attrition rate is, it would be hard to say if it is worth it to eliminate the fees.

I'll agree that the atmosphere at NESBA events is friendly. I've already met some great people at the two events I've done this year. But it feels different than the other track day events I've done and I can't put my finger on it. Not different in a bad way, just different. It may be taking this point of difference and developing it into your competitive advantage that will help NESBA prosper.

Has there been any sort of NESBA brand analysis? Core attributes? That should help if you are able to pursue further marketing.
 

ERB68

New Member
Being new this last fall, here are my observations.

I hate to say it but the $75 membership spooks people. I would lower it to be competitive to other org's.

I have ridden with two other org's and the one that I think does the best job with newbie's is not NESBA. I hate to say it cause I have met a lot of great people here.
Like was said buy others, a more comprehensive intro/novice class/day would help newbies get more comfortable.

For instance, the opportunity came up for me to be able to go to Autobahn. I called a friend (fellow nesbian) and invited him to go with. He did and said he really liked the the instruction and claimed he learned more that one day than the previous 6 nesba days.

I think it would help if Nesba could give CR's some compensation. Then they would hopefully feel more compelled to help newbies instead of hanging with their track buds. I can't help but feel Nesba is a little clicky. If your not welcomed to the cool kids group, your out side looking in.

These are just my ramblings, I mean no malice. I really want to see this group flourish.

P.S. Why are we the most expensive org. but all volunteer. Where does the $$ go?
 

diamond

New Member
A couple of years ago, Wink was running video. It was awesome to have that kind of feedback available at the NESBA events. He would swing by, tell me he had a couple laps of me, and to stop by and take a look over lunch, or after the day was over.

I am doing my part to assist with the advertising on my end. ;) I now have brochures at the shop, and I talk to all of those who express interest in track days/racing, as I am the only one in the dealership doing so.

Maybe a refer a friend program? Refer someone who joins NESBA, and get a credit or something?

I second the optional seminars idea previously mentioned. The more "hands on" they are, the better. But make them optional, so that those that are not interested, do not have to attend.

Have copies of track maps available in the morning riders' meeting, so that newbies to the track can see and understand pit in/pit out procedures, etc...

Have CRs introduce themselves briefly (during the riders meeting maybe?), and tell a bit about themselves, what bike they are on, etc so that members feel they "know" the CRs, and are less intimidated by approaching them? They could also introduce themselves during tech, if they don't know the rider of the bike they are teching.

Any new riders to the track, or new to NESBA in general riders, have a CR assigned to check in on each of them early in the day (after the first or second session, or even during lunch) to see if they have questions or want to be shown around the track for a session or whatnot. Might help to give the newbies a positive warm feeling about NESBA? Some people are too shy or intimidated to ask for help, but if someone shows an interest in helping them as an individual, they might be more inclined to ask for help and have a positive experience. I am the type that will blend in to a crowd, but if someone takes an interest in helping me, I'm all ears, just too shy to ask a stranger for help.
 

roach

New Member
I have done trackdays with NESBA and two other organizations. The majority of my trackdays have been with NESBA though. I enjoy my trackdays with NESBA and feel they do a good job overall. No matter how good you are, you can always improve and I have the same comments as everyone else.
1. Membership drive. Pay the $75 early and get a credit towards your first trackday.
2. Work more with the beginners. Assign a CR to 5 or 6 riders and stay together at least through the morning.
3. Add seminars throughout the day.
4. Have the CRs introduce themselves during the rider's meeting. It would make people more comfortable in approaching them later after they get off the track.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

Erich.
 

Trent1098S

New Member
This thread is pandoras box. Since we don't get a 'vote' on what eventually goes on I guess I'll put in my .02. I'm pretty new so I'll tell the story how it all unfolded for me, and offer in some suggestions.

I work in a motorcycle-heavy office.. all but one rides. The winter after I got my 1098, one day we were having an idle cold weather conversation about how you couldn't safely use anywhere close to the capabilities of a Superbike on the streets. The conversation got me wondering about how I could go about renting track time - I actually called Autobahn in Joliet about reserving the track for a day in the Spring for the guys in my office, but the cost was prohibitive. The guy at Autobahn that I talked to told me about NESBA and SBTT.

I got out on the Internet and started looking around - keep in mind this was November 07 - and found NESBA and SBTT. I registered for NESBA mainly because of the "what to expect" information was more comprehensive on the web and overall it looked to provide more to beginners. In January after the track days were announced I signed up for a bunch of days. Unfortunately we went house shopping in the spring, and I had to lay out a 70K deposit and move our family. So I didn't actually get to use the days.. neither here nor there.

The first time I went to an event, to be honest, I was pretty intimidated. I knew NO ONE that had ever done a track day, and all I knew about it I read on the web page. When we arrived at Blackhawk Saturday morning, I didn't know where I could park, I didn't have any clue where I was supposed to take my bike for tech, etc. I ended up parking by where the entrance to the hot pit was, WAY down from the buildings, and couldn't make out the PA so I had to go ask people what to do.


(Suggestion - to take some of the first-time angst off new members, provide a track map with a legend on where to park, where TECH is, where the riders meeting will be, and so on WITH the e-mail liability waiver. Include basic information about "can you camp", "is there food at this track", etc. I'm going to Autobahn second week of July and again, I have absolutely NO IDEA where I'm supposed to set up, or where I'm supposed to go to for tech, etc.)

So .. I finally figured out where tech was, then hiked back for the riders meeting in my brand new, not broken-in yet leathers (now I show up in shorts & tshirt, much more comfortable to stand around in). The introduction Fred Duncan gave was very informative and pretty cool. After the meeting Marshall took us in for the beginners meeting. Right about 2 minutes in to it, A group was thundering past and THAT got the adrenaline started. Marshall runs a good meeting and covers the basics.

Suggestion - I wish there was an additional meeting for new riders throughout the day. Intro riders can get a recap before they head off for the day, and B riders can ask more questions while the stuff is fresh in their mind. Maybe a lunch time checkup for Questions & Answers or something? Each rider can go and talk to other people and CR's, at any time, but I think a group activity would reinforce what is going on.. some people may be too uncomfortable approaching an advanced rider and asking 'dumb questions' ... others might just not know WHAT to ask but can learn from others who are more outgoing and willing to ask questions.


The one disconnect here in what I read vs. what I experienced is "the beginners group will start at a slow pace and progressively get faster as the day goes on." Not entirely true. You ride up on a CR's ass, 9 times out of 10 they'll waive you by and you've got a clear track ahead. That's how I got myself in trouble at Putnam - passed people on the straight, had no one in front of me to follow, and I highsided my second session out. It was totally my fault, not blaming anyone, but the logic here is if riders were assigned to groups and rode in those groups at a set pace, instead of just getting out there and hammering it until they got in over their heads... there'd be a lot less incidents and attrition in the ranks..

The other side of the coin is, if you can't keep up with the pace, you'll also end up riding solo and more likely to get in over your head. If you are new to riding on the track, or to that particular track, you're NOT going to know what speed you can carry through turns or even what direction the next turn is goingn to be. I watched a LOT of videos of Putnam before I went on YouTube but once I hit the pavement I found out I didn't remember what came after what..

Suggestion - for people new to the track in either B or I, have a control rider designated so people who need to learn the track can follow them. Maybe even use a different colored shirt so we'd know exactly who to line up with before going out. That control rider would keep a more sedate (but not slow) pace, show the line, and keep things moving along smoothly. The other control riders could work normally, giving individual attention and policing the track..

It took me the better part of a day and a half to get comfortable with Blackhawk so I could get around without scaring the hell out of myself with stupid mistakes. The first session ever was totally nerve wracking. Riding fast without knowing what's coming up .. ugh. A literbike will get you in deep trouble real fast if you haven't ridden like that before.

The biggest thing I've seen that probably hurts the organization is newcomers who wreck the first few track days they do. People they know, who know they went down, will be pretty damn hesitant to get on the track themselves. On the flipside, if people come back from a track day and say "man that's awesome" and aren't quite
as worried about wadding a new bike... that'll bring more members in.

I feel if a few more steps were made to help keep the beginner riders up, the better things would get. You're never going to stop everyone who is hell bent and impatient to go fast - they're bound to crash. Be happy that they get to crash on the track with full gear, instead of on the street becoming a hood ornament to an SUV, wearing nothing but shorts and a t-Shirt. Those guys, you've probably saved their lives - once they go down, even if they never do another track day, they'll be a little more cautious on the street. The rest, you're helping too because damn .. these bikes really ARE capable of amazing things that you'd never get to reach for safely on the road.

Everyone is going to get badly spooked by something or will go down at some point. It's important to try to prevent that from happening too early on. :)

And yes.. this is an expensive hobby and the economy sucks. I auctioned off some old inventory to raise money to afford bike improvements and track time this year. I'm sure the story is the same with different details all around the region. CAT layoffs in this area have really hurt a lot of local businesses ...
 

tattsailor

New Member
As a New guy and only done Track days with Nesba here is my suggestion.

1. Firstimers have a seperate Tech and Registration time. This was a totally intimidating and unknown process, how many of you really knew what to do? I had to ask and figure it out with another newbie. We had strength and confidence in numbers. Walking the newbie through and explaining the process, so they know what to do the next time. This will totally make the intimidation factor go down.

2. Track Bike Rentals. This topic has been brought here and kicked around many times. This is something that NESBA will NOT want to get into, so I throw my hat into the ring. In Europe and spain I am finding out Track Bike Rentals are ver popular! I am considering getting into this business after I retire from the Navy. This would be an agreement between NESBA and the rental service and how it can work. But I believe it can work! What a great way to introduce the newbie to the track.

Just my .02 for right now.
 

n2gsxrs

New Member
I think Trent hit it right on the nose for me. As I too am a noob to this addiction with only 3 trackdays under my belt I had a hard time in the morning getting set up. Once started I seemed to be one of the faster or more comfortable riders in the group but after being waived on the devil on my shoulder took over and away I went, pushing hard not really knowing where or what I was doing, just going faster.

Lucky for me I didn't crash and wised up. I slowed my pace just enough to stay behind the CR and mustered up the courage to find out some feedback either negative or positive. Once I did this I learned a ton and the butterflies went away.

I would suggest alot of the things already mentioned but really like to see a optional second riders meeting after the first two sessions or so opened up to Q&A. Also I think a bike on stands for the beginners meeting to really demonstrate riding position for leaning, proper set up to corner entry, you know, proper braking, downshifting techniques would be very helpfull.

I also like the idea of of discount on your first trackday/membership fee. I know I could get at least 4-5 of my friends out there if they didn't have to shell out almost $300 for their first day. ( Road America, Membership fee, Suit rental) Once hooked I think there wallets wouldn't be so glued shut.

With that said, I have to say I have been very pleased with my Nesba expierence thus far and really appreciate the insurance of Turnone being there in case I need them. They are always friendly and a true asset to this orginization. As for the other members, all I can say is everyone I have met so far has given me a warm welcome.
 

Vitamin_J

Member
These are super suggestions. Same obstacles with friends and parting with $300 to give it a try. The addiction is life changing and I'm sure that the experience (like man of us the first time) will make the price for the day seem more reasonable.
 

wally509

New Member
one day bumps/slides (is my jargon correct)

Guys,

This idea comes from some post day discussions with the guys I was pitted with at Putnam last weekend. Two of the guys we were with got bumped down from I to B (I'll use the term "slide" for being bumped down, correct me if wrong). They said that move took their days from being grueling and somewhat un-enjoyable to being a blast in a matter of an hour!

It's always more fun and a better forum for improvement to be riding with others of similar skill and pace. If you're either constantly running up on people or have a train of "angry bees" blasting past on both sides going into every corner you spend more time focused on that than YOUR riding. Not to mention: greater speed differentials = less safety.

I thought about ACTIVE DAILY SORTING equating to one day/temporary bumps (or slides). Initially I (we) thought that all bikes should be required to carry a transponder, then every session or every other session trackday control (Fred or ?) would look through the printout of average laptimes. He would then make on the fly calls like "wow, these two guys from A are really off pace today they need to go to I and these top 5 guys from I should run with A for the day..." etc.

You guys were looking for ideas, this one is obviously only half thought out but hey you asked for it. Part of what prompted this is the idea that riders that are new to NESBA can immediately sign up for I but more importantly, you never know who is going to show up on any given day or what shape they and/or their bikes will be in.

Just an idea......I'm a B group guy so FLAME AWAY!!
 

Blueberry

New Member
Trent and a few others hit on my theme; education and guidance both pre-track day and as the day progresses. I'd speculate that NESBA 10 years ago was guys that had been riding their ass off on the streets or racing for many years before doing trackdays. Today I see more and more folks like myself that have found the track sooner in our riding years to avoid the street perils and, despite being a bit green, would rather push and develop our skills on the track. I'm guessing it is a conscious decision by NESBA to not offer formal training vs general guidance but they should continually evaluate their product (hence this thread?)

That said when we first hit the track there is typically a very big gap in skill and knowledge that has to be filled ASAP. I'd suggest NESBA get an adult learning consultant that could help them further develop their classroom sessions for the B group and develop a program that helps access and progress a rider through the day vs inundate them with all the info up front (see MSF course!). I think the content is absolutely there and NESBA does better than other track day orgs I've ridden with, but it can be improved. Folks in the pits that give the new guys advice in many ways does this too; it's just not formalized/consistent.

For the intermediate riders I think providing more info on bike technology, tracks, riding skills, etc. on their website could be key. Knowledge is power and I spend hours and hours scouring nesba/wera/600rr.net forums to get nuggets to learn and improve. Continuing to be on the forefront of technology and making it more easily accessible will be a great marketing and customer retention tool. Again, Nesba boards are the best out there and there is a huge amount of knowledge to be gained but pulling that info out into articles, video collections, and such will make it even better. Under "tracks we run" should be video links and narrative on race lines, etc. Wouldn't we all kill for a CR or 2's detailed thread on how they built up their race bikes and what they like/dislike about their upgrades? I would gladly PAY extra for that info!

Finally, again on the website, how about a "Meet the CR's" page? I think the CR's are really NESBA's best asset and they should "market" them as much as possible. As a start some info on their riding backgrounds, bikes and upgrades, interviews, etc. would be interesting and I'm sure they would have fun with it. And seriously, have you ever met one that doesn't want to endlessly bless us with their wisdom and stories how they sat where we were just 3 years ago? :) A Meet the riders page (facebook?) could also be cool.

I like the consistency of a NESBA day (clockwork sessions on the 20's) but varying the programs could be cool. Summit Jefferson almost always has just a few A's; why not make a few dates 30 minute session B and I endurance days? I realize that eliminates 1/3 of the income potential but it could better gurantee 2/3 full?

For marketing opportunities does NESBA hit local motorcycle nights? If you can catch the eye of just 1 squid who does a trackday that give him the skills that probably save his life, won't we all sleep just a little better at night? :) If you ask your members we could all send you the weekly spots. "Trick out" a race bike and go on the road. Bring videos!

Thanks NESBA for asking the question!
 
Like my friend “betarace’ said: Don’t change a thing! LOL!

I think the question we should be asking is: “Why do we ride with NESBA”?

For me that’s easy. The safety/ passing rules and the fact NESBA CR’s enforce these rules. That was pretty much the sole reason me and my buddy Jeff joined. We knew this was going to be a different environment, but we wanted some autonomy on the track for individual learning without the horror stories we had heard on the street with other orgs. (please spare the speeches about this during NESBA events; I know its happened here too, but at least a clamp is put down. November 2 last year at NJMP is a good example).

As far as the 75.00 membership? When friends balk at that, I say it’s more than just allowing you to get on the track. Need a new leather suit? Great prices! Tires? Great prices! Hell, Chris Moon was able to score a chain and sprocket kit for my bike that was WAY less than the discount places on-line. But many members do not know about this! A friend of mine joined NESBA and ran out and bought a new Technic Chicane suit for a hell of a lot more than what NESBA sells them for. When I asked why didn’t you buy one through NESBA? He wished that information was in the front page of the NESBA manual. Not the prices, just the fact the 75.00 bucks gets you the ability to buy stuff through NESBA. Not everybody reads the NESBA message board…all the time.

So if NESBA advertises anything…keep focusing on the safety rules that are strictly enforced as a selling point and the discounts the 75.00 membership brings a person. Because I only ride 2-3 track days a year, I try and order at least tires if needed.

I think its important to state that many, many people show interest in the track, but in the end they really don’t want to make the commitment it takes for the learning aspect of becoming a better rider. It’s not just the cost of the day. But it’s the mental, physical and time sacrifice that costs. I see this as an MSF Coach. The vast majority of people that come through the class, although they learn something, are in the end only interested getting their license and riding in a straight line to their favorite restaurant with friends on the weekends. The type of bike doesn’t seem to matter with this mentality. When someone starts riding on the track, going out to bars with friends, blowing money on flat screen TV’s, purchasing a cool car all go out the window. So NESBA can lower costs or prices, but I don’t think that will get more people on the track. Maybe initially, but when people see they actually have to ‘work’ to be a better rider? Forget it. That’s the one single thing I’ve seen we all have in common at track days. We are all their to learn. Most street riders I know are not; at least in my experience. So when people say they are interested, I think yeah they probably are, but will they get off their ass and do it? The Prices are reasonable in the end. Especially when people I know blow 75.00 bucks in a bar with no thought to it whatsoever.

Still, many good responses for sure. I like and dislike the idea of more structured B-groups. Yes, my first day was taxing because I think nothing compares to your first track day. I was scared, excited and was in awe. I was worried about speed, but something said in the morning meeting stuck with me. “It’s the faster riders responsibility to get around you safely” That helped me ride the speeds I was comfortable with, so I felt safe yet was learning the track environment. In addition, I had sought out some professional training ‘before’ I came to the track. Another friend did the same (Keith Code Level I) and after the third session he was stating how glad he did Code school before his first rack day.

I think its best to address the newbies in the morning meeting, that if it’s your first time, the first sessions go to CR ‘so and so’ for some tips and a tow around the track. Could help alleviate the stress.

My 2 cents on the subject.

BZ
 

cliplizard

New Member
Again, CRs are the main asset of NESBA. I hear and read many people asking "Who was the CR who helped me".

Please add a spot on this site to introduce the CRs and have a bio about them. I want other members spending more time with the CRs (keeps me safe when others are safe).


I see many comments about the $75 membership being prohibitive....If $75 is prohibitive, GREAT, I dont want someone on the track who thinks $75 prohibits them from replacing brake pads or rubber or replacing their anti-freeze with water, etc.


CRs are our strength. It seems that this thread is about compensating for our weakness. Lets focus on our strengths: start a CR fund or some type of incentive program to make it more appealing for CRs to keep doing what they are doing.
 

twin ty

New Member
First, I hope by starting this thread I hope the organization is NOT in any longetivity trouble. Could we assign new Nesba members with a sponsor? That guy would not have to be a CR but an experienced member that could answer any questions and assist with bike prep prior and or transportation to a trackday. It bothers me to see new riders that self register in I only to get spooked on their first session. I did many days in B before I got bumped to I, it takes a lot of work to build skills necessary for the move up unless they are naturals, although rare, they do exist. Incentive for current members to get new guys to join. I somtimes feel like I am selling some sort of religion when I talk to riders to join. Making the move from street to mostly track I feel has extended my years on this planet, I wish that all riders are required to attend a trackday prior to riding on the street. Lastly we have to increase attendance to trackdays. Getting the numbers up is Vital to our sport. A couple of weeks ago at Heartland, the few people that were there did not represent the quality of that establishment (in our region its pretty close to par with Road America, seriously). Other than that keep doing what you doing.

Thanks!
 

RandyO

New Member
I like the idea of a dedicated CR intro thread... As most contact with us new guys is with the CR's, it would be nice if we knew who was who...
 
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