Number one thing to improve NESBA
- Thread starter Gman97
- Start date
A lot of good ideas and comments have been made. Here are my contributions:
1) All people must start in "B" group. If a person is good enough to be in "I" then let the bump process work. I speak at this from experience as a person who initially signed up in "I" and never spent a day in "B"
2) Continue to work/converse with tracks that we have been locked out of. This is especially important for the Mid-West as we don't have Mid-Ohio or Grattan anymore, and Bluegrass is still up in the air.
3) I understand NESBA is a business and a non-profit at that but find a way to make it more of a club. Where members feel or have a bit of an ownership/say in it (and yes this dialogue is a great start)
4) Have some functions. I know for the mid-west there is a function/gathering sometime during the winter I believe, in Illinois I think. Maybe during track weekends have something, nothing big and extravagent, just a get together in the evening, some food, etc. I think I've read somewhere where some campers do get together. Just make it more openly known and user-friendly for the new person or outsider.
5) I know it's been mentioned but more SED days. Maybe instead of doing "B" on one day and "I" on another have both days (saturday & sunday) be both "B" & "I"s. Just do a 30 minute rotation, 30 minutes for "I" and then 30 minutes for "B" and rotate like that throughout the day. This would be more then enough riding time for both groups.
And thanks for asking us for some imput,
Dan
1) All people must start in "B" group. If a person is good enough to be in "I" then let the bump process work. I speak at this from experience as a person who initially signed up in "I" and never spent a day in "B"
2) Continue to work/converse with tracks that we have been locked out of. This is especially important for the Mid-West as we don't have Mid-Ohio or Grattan anymore, and Bluegrass is still up in the air.
3) I understand NESBA is a business and a non-profit at that but find a way to make it more of a club. Where members feel or have a bit of an ownership/say in it (and yes this dialogue is a great start)
4) Have some functions. I know for the mid-west there is a function/gathering sometime during the winter I believe, in Illinois I think. Maybe during track weekends have something, nothing big and extravagent, just a get together in the evening, some food, etc. I think I've read somewhere where some campers do get together. Just make it more openly known and user-friendly for the new person or outsider.
5) I know it's been mentioned but more SED days. Maybe instead of doing "B" on one day and "I" on another have both days (saturday & sunday) be both "B" & "I"s. Just do a 30 minute rotation, 30 minutes for "I" and then 30 minutes for "B" and rotate like that throughout the day. This would be more then enough riding time for both groups.
And thanks for asking us for some imput,
Dan
greeny
Member
I've been with nesba for almost a year and I absolutely love it. The only problem is that as much as I would love to support them as my exclusive TD org, I can't. Not having a midwest event from the middle of june to the last weekend in august is simply unacceptable, especially when we just finished the gauntlet - 6/9 days at the track. I could have made all those dates if they were actually spread out. Instead, I had to choose 4 out of the 6, and that was really stretching it considering road A was during the week. It's just a shame that the money I'd prefer to spend with nesba is probably gonna be going to another organization because there isn't anything planned for such an extended amount of time.
Also, Gingerman is probably one of my favorite tracks. If it were up to me, I'd go there a minimum of 2 times a season. However, when the schedule is finally finished a month before the actual event, who do you expect is going to show up? And when nesba can only get 14 riders to commit, why aren't they doing anything to get more spots filled? When STT recognized they were having a problem filling Gingerman, they offered $100 days while waiving the membership fees. From what I hear, they filled the whole paddock! Not only was it packed, but there were supposedly tons of first timers. Now where do you think they're gonna take their business when it's time to sign up for their next event? What organization are they gonna drag their street riding friends to for their first event? It would probably be a lot easier for them to spend $75 on a membership fee when they they actually know what they're paying for. I think that nesba has to recognize when to be less stubborn about their policies and fees and it'll pay off in the future and can even help build a better foundation of newer riders. If we lose gingerman, that's at least 1-2 weekends I'm taking my business somewhere else next year. Do I want to? No... do I have to? Yeah.
Grattan, mid ohio, and the new Kentucky track. Seriously, what's the deal?
As for event structure, I'm perfectly content... that's what makes nesba unique and our safety record speaks for itself. If someone from another org thinks they're an advanced rider and is too proud to be told they're better fit for nesba's "I" group, then that's one less ego we probably want on the track with us, anyway. I agree that we might want to be a little more accommodating to first timers, though. My best suggestion is to split up the morning sessions into 4 groups - 15 mins each. Have the first timers and veteran "B" guys run separately. It can be intimidating considering we have some very fast riders in beginner. At least they'll have 3 sessions to adjust the the track environment.
Also, what if the $75 membership fee can be used as a credit for an event in the future. This would encourage more repeat customers (as if the addictiveness of a nesba day isn't enough).
Sorry if this came off harsh in any way. I think it's obvious that I love so many aspects about nesba and I'd be heartbroken to see events on our calendar disappearing.
Also, Gingerman is probably one of my favorite tracks. If it were up to me, I'd go there a minimum of 2 times a season. However, when the schedule is finally finished a month before the actual event, who do you expect is going to show up? And when nesba can only get 14 riders to commit, why aren't they doing anything to get more spots filled? When STT recognized they were having a problem filling Gingerman, they offered $100 days while waiving the membership fees. From what I hear, they filled the whole paddock! Not only was it packed, but there were supposedly tons of first timers. Now where do you think they're gonna take their business when it's time to sign up for their next event? What organization are they gonna drag their street riding friends to for their first event? It would probably be a lot easier for them to spend $75 on a membership fee when they they actually know what they're paying for. I think that nesba has to recognize when to be less stubborn about their policies and fees and it'll pay off in the future and can even help build a better foundation of newer riders. If we lose gingerman, that's at least 1-2 weekends I'm taking my business somewhere else next year. Do I want to? No... do I have to? Yeah.
Grattan, mid ohio, and the new Kentucky track. Seriously, what's the deal?
As for event structure, I'm perfectly content... that's what makes nesba unique and our safety record speaks for itself. If someone from another org thinks they're an advanced rider and is too proud to be told they're better fit for nesba's "I" group, then that's one less ego we probably want on the track with us, anyway. I agree that we might want to be a little more accommodating to first timers, though. My best suggestion is to split up the morning sessions into 4 groups - 15 mins each. Have the first timers and veteran "B" guys run separately. It can be intimidating considering we have some very fast riders in beginner. At least they'll have 3 sessions to adjust the the track environment.
Also, what if the $75 membership fee can be used as a credit for an event in the future. This would encourage more repeat customers (as if the addictiveness of a nesba day isn't enough).
Sorry if this came off harsh in any way. I think it's obvious that I love so many aspects about nesba and I'd be heartbroken to see events on our calendar disappearing.
GBCBR
New Member
This is my second summer with Nesba. I wished I would have found out about Nesba 10 years earlier!!! Look at all the track days I could have done over 10 years!!! I found out by doing an internet search on track days a year ago. I plan to personally talk up track days with the local sport bike shops in NE Wisconsin to see if the sales staff/managers/service groups know about track days and will then plan to educate them if needed. I have only found one person at a dealer that has ever done a track day!! I have seen the NESBA brochures at some dealers. Like most organizations, Nesba needs to continue to bring in new members.
Next, is the equipment needed for a track day. I was glad I was able to rent a leather suit the first couple of track days that I attended...so I could try before I buyed.
And for Nesba to operate efficiently, it needs to sell out each event so that us riders will not wait until a day or two before to decide based on the weather. If I knew the track would sell out, I would order my track days the day they became available. Now, how do we get this type of participation??
I did a track day at Road America last October 27th knowing that it would not sell out, but signed up a month in advance to show support to NESBA. I planned to ride regardless of the weather and also wanted Turn one to adjust my suspension which they did perfectly. Yes, we did have snow flurries and a cold track that day!
As for the B group, I was waved on during my second lap of my first ever session last summer. I had an open track but made sure I stayed in control. My pace was faster than many of the riders that day. I like the way the sessions are run.
As a money maker at track days, have a CR video a person who wants to pay extra to review riding position, etc. and get extra help.
Next, is the equipment needed for a track day. I was glad I was able to rent a leather suit the first couple of track days that I attended...so I could try before I buyed.
And for Nesba to operate efficiently, it needs to sell out each event so that us riders will not wait until a day or two before to decide based on the weather. If I knew the track would sell out, I would order my track days the day they became available. Now, how do we get this type of participation??
I did a track day at Road America last October 27th knowing that it would not sell out, but signed up a month in advance to show support to NESBA. I planned to ride regardless of the weather and also wanted Turn one to adjust my suspension which they did perfectly. Yes, we did have snow flurries and a cold track that day!
As for the B group, I was waved on during my second lap of my first ever session last summer. I had an open track but made sure I stayed in control. My pace was faster than many of the riders that day. I like the way the sessions are run.
As a money maker at track days, have a CR video a person who wants to pay extra to review riding position, etc. and get extra help.
Yes, I like that the CR's are willing to wave you by but only if you are pushing them a bit or they think you want around... I have seen a couple posts from guys that think this is a "mandatory" pass order... IT IS VOLUNTARY!! this was made crystal clear to me the first day I rode.. "if you do not want to pass, DONT" I did make the pass and then rode pretty conservative until I could get some kind of feel for how fast I was really going..
S3aturnR
New Member
NESBA has a lot of strong points that you don't really realize until you go out with another group and ride. as a newer rider, i signed up for the novice group with "the other" track day org and was quite pissed at their ungodly slow pace and no passing within your sub-group rule. not only did they go SUPER slow (and if i'm saying it, you KNOW they're slow) but if you're stuck behind the slow guy on pit road, you're stuck behind him all session.
now, their beginner group instruction was pretty good, but after i got a chance to lead a lap and was immediately bumped to the I group (yes, my head was so big i could barely get it thru the door), i noticed that the "instruction" and CR feedback completely stopped. nobody waits at the end of pit lane at the end of the session to talk to you or anything.
i'm still too new to figure out what NESBA's doing right to produce faster riders, but keep doing it!!!
i am kinda bummed that there was only 1 gingerman weekend and zero grattan dates this summer, but i think that's my only complaint.
sure, the $100 track days at gingerman TOTALLY filled the place with the other group, most of those people seemed like they were there for a bike show and fashion contest more than a real track day. and if i can pass someone on gingerman's front straight at almost a 50mph speed difference, there's a problem with the way others are permitted to put themselves in whatever class they like.
my track day org of choice will continue to be NESBA. i'm glad i started out here. i will stray only out of major convenience. learn to ride with NESBA, then try out another group and feel like a God as you pass everyone there like they were going backwards. i think my head is still swollen from that.
keep doing what you've been doing NESBA!
s3aturnr
now, their beginner group instruction was pretty good, but after i got a chance to lead a lap and was immediately bumped to the I group (yes, my head was so big i could barely get it thru the door), i noticed that the "instruction" and CR feedback completely stopped. nobody waits at the end of pit lane at the end of the session to talk to you or anything.
i'm still too new to figure out what NESBA's doing right to produce faster riders, but keep doing it!!!
i am kinda bummed that there was only 1 gingerman weekend and zero grattan dates this summer, but i think that's my only complaint.
sure, the $100 track days at gingerman TOTALLY filled the place with the other group, most of those people seemed like they were there for a bike show and fashion contest more than a real track day. and if i can pass someone on gingerman's front straight at almost a 50mph speed difference, there's a problem with the way others are permitted to put themselves in whatever class they like.
my track day org of choice will continue to be NESBA. i'm glad i started out here. i will stray only out of major convenience. learn to ride with NESBA, then try out another group and feel like a God as you pass everyone there like they were going backwards. i think my head is still swollen from that.
keep doing what you've been doing NESBA!
s3aturnr
danch
New Member
You mean middle of july? There's BHF on July 4&5, and Autobahn 11,12,13. The schedule is messed up this year, I expect for a variety of reasons beyond NESBA's direct control.
Now, for more constructive input:
One of the big things that's come up multiple times in this thread is how intimidating one's first track day is. I remember this well, and I think some of the other long term members do too! I think the ideas for sending an annotated track/facility map (shaded paddocking areas, dot for tech and registration) could help. Part of the riders meeting is also asking these newcomers to identify themselves. Perhaps at that point we could remind them that anybody in an orange CR shirt or a yellow 'Staff' shirt can help them out at any point of the day. More experienced members could also make a point of offering the newcomers a helping hand, or perhaps there could be some more formal mentoring relationship.
Another thing that might help is to extend what DJ in the southeast has done with his Southeast Track Info and FAQ sticky over in the southeast forum. This wouldn't have to be done by a director or control rider, for that matter, but I think that Wink may have something of that sort over on the ChicagolandSportBikes forum. Carol Larson also has a 'Brief Guide to getting started with NESBA' sticky in the Mid-Central forum - maybe it's technically possible to cross-post that in all regions, or maybe simply move it into the 'Trackdays' forum?
S3aturnR
New Member
that just gave me an idea! maybe we can get all the newbies to wear a brightly-colored baseball cap (or whatever you think may work well) with a NESBA logo on it so they can be more easily identified between sessions? how about a t-shirt that says, "i'm new! introduce yourself to me!" i don't know. something...
s3aturnr
MoTo ViXeN
New Member
I have used this website a few times in the past to help fellow racing friends of mine that were with WERA keep on top of their lap times. Its actually quite helpful and easy. Its Mylaps.com dunno if some of you may have heard of it or not already but I thought its was a neat idea for any track event involving people that are looking at their times and trying to improve.
http://www.mylaps.com/general/about.jsp
Would be great if NESBA could get something like this set up. I know the track side support rents and sells timers but this could be something that NESBA could provide to help aid some of the CR's in in their ability to bump individuals, free for the CR's of course as being a CR should come with some sort of freebies. They could compare their times to their groups times and it may help better their decisions. I'm not sure how the bumping process works but I'm sure your times, riding posture and much more are involved but it could help ya never know till you try.
But the rest of us could rent them for a decent price and type in our transponder numbers on your FREE profile on Mylaps.com and see instantly our lap times and improvement from track to track. This site takes a lot of the work and time out of keeping up with such on your own through spread sheets or written by hand.
Also you can purchase new and used AMB transponders for yourself to avoid renting one every time if you like using Mylaps.com. NESBA could offer them for rent or for sale used and new at the track events, through the NESBA website, and in the forums.
I dunno what the cost of a set up like this is but its just an idea. :idea:
http://www.mylaps.com/general/about.jsp
Would be great if NESBA could get something like this set up. I know the track side support rents and sells timers but this could be something that NESBA could provide to help aid some of the CR's in in their ability to bump individuals, free for the CR's of course as being a CR should come with some sort of freebies. They could compare their times to their groups times and it may help better their decisions. I'm not sure how the bumping process works but I'm sure your times, riding posture and much more are involved but it could help ya never know till you try.
But the rest of us could rent them for a decent price and type in our transponder numbers on your FREE profile on Mylaps.com and see instantly our lap times and improvement from track to track. This site takes a lot of the work and time out of keeping up with such on your own through spread sheets or written by hand.
Also you can purchase new and used AMB transponders for yourself to avoid renting one every time if you like using Mylaps.com. NESBA could offer them for rent or for sale used and new at the track events, through the NESBA website, and in the forums.
I dunno what the cost of a set up like this is but its just an idea. :idea:
Plotts
New Member
+1
I think more structure for beginners would be helpful for first timers. I also think at least one "optional" meeting for beginners maybe around lunch would be helpful for many.
I really enjoy the B group, but I feel like I have to really work to get feedback. It's easy to go a full day in B IMO without any feedback at all. Something more structured and with individual feedback would be nice at times. Not all the time though.
That being said I think we all Love the organization and the CR's are great, absolutely. I'm sure it's hard to keep up with all the different riders.
greeny
Member
not a bad idea at all... however, i think it presents 2 problems for a lot of riders.danch;64027 wrote: You mean middle of july? There's BHF on July 4&5, and Autobahn 11,12,13. The schedule is messed up this year, I expect for a variety of reasons beyond NESBA's direct control.
yeah, julyand whatever the reasons, they're losing money because of it.
ur in the midwest section, we already have turn one racing
MoTo ViXeN;64061 wrote: I have used this website a few times in the past to help fellow racing friends of mine that were with WERA keep on top of their lap times. Its actually quite helpful and easy. Its Mylaps.com dunno if some of you may have heard of it or not already but I thought its was a neat idea for any track event involving people that are looking at their times and trying to improve.
http://www.mylaps.com/general/about.jsp
Would be great if NESBA could get something like this set up. I know the track side support rents and sells timers but this could be something that NESBA could provide to help aid some of the CR's in in their ability to bump individuals, free for the CR's of course as being a CR should come with some sort of freebies. They could compare their times to their groups times and it may help better their decisions. I'm not sure how the bumping process works but I'm sure your times, riding posture and much more are involved but it could help ya never know till you try.
But the rest of us could rent them for a decent price and type in our transponder numbers on your FREE profile on Mylaps.com and see instantly our lap times and improvement from track to track. This site takes a lot of the work and time out of keeping up with such on your own through spread sheets or written by hand.
Also you can purchase new and used AMB transponders for yourself to avoid renting one every time if you like using Mylaps.com. NESBA could offer them for rent or for sale used and new at the track events, through the NESBA website, and in the forums.
I dunno what the cost of a set up like this is but its just an idea. :idea:
1. just because you're on pace with the next group, doesn't mean you're ready for your bump. it's usually more important that you're smooth, predictable, and consistent - especially when you're getting your bump from "B" to "I". As long as you line up in the front of the group before heading out on the track, you'll ride with your respective group's captain and most likely get bumped when you're ready.
2. insurance. some riders are still carrying full coverage on their bikes and one of the main reasons that companies are still covering losses from a track day are because they're considered an "untimed event". A lap timing system would change everything. Most of the CRs have lap timers and have a good idea as to what pace everyone is running. If someone wants their lap time, they can usually ask the CR they were working with, or just buy their own for as cheap (or cheaper) than a transponder.
xlink
New Member
here are my notes:
1. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" - CR's don't have to wear shirts in between sessions for you to find them - they have a red "C" on their bikes...
2. I can only afford (willing to afford) 4-6 track days per season...and more dates would not help me. It is an expensive hobby, and the more popular it is, the more affordable it is going to become. I think nesba used to get a lot more intro riders back when they allowed them to wear two pairs of jeans, instead of a suit. I have friends that would definitely try an intro day, but do not want to invest in a suit in order to do that. More intros - more members - nesba is great but it has to recruit more.
3. Nesba has to drop the membership fee, I have never had a problem with it, but I know what I'm paying for. $75 bucks scares potential members. I think that $45 sounds about right to compare with STT's $35 fee.
1. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" - CR's don't have to wear shirts in between sessions for you to find them - they have a red "C" on their bikes...
2. I can only afford (willing to afford) 4-6 track days per season...and more dates would not help me. It is an expensive hobby, and the more popular it is, the more affordable it is going to become. I think nesba used to get a lot more intro riders back when they allowed them to wear two pairs of jeans, instead of a suit. I have friends that would definitely try an intro day, but do not want to invest in a suit in order to do that. More intros - more members - nesba is great but it has to recruit more.
3. Nesba has to drop the membership fee, I have never had a problem with it, but I know what I'm paying for. $75 bucks scares potential members. I think that $45 sounds about right to compare with STT's $35 fee.
I don't understand this $75 membership fee holding anybody up. Its commitment man. Like someone said earlier, people are willing to spend $75 on drinks, cable for ONE month, clothes they don't need, etc. Thats their problem, and thats a larger problem of getting people out of their comfort zone.
I like the idea of having a few events / potlucks at the end of a track day, but I also realize that we can organize that ourselves over the forum. It would be cool if Nesba had room enough to bring a large grill for one, but again, this could be all organized via forums.
I do like the idea of Nesba advertising its good deals more. I didn't know about this either until I was reading a forum topic and it came up.
Nesba rocks.
I like the idea of having a few events / potlucks at the end of a track day, but I also realize that we can organize that ourselves over the forum. It would be cool if Nesba had room enough to bring a large grill for one, but again, this could be all organized via forums.
I do like the idea of Nesba advertising its good deals more. I didn't know about this either until I was reading a forum topic and it came up.
Nesba rocks.
MoTo ViXeN
New Member
snowbizx;64080 wrote: yeah, july
ur in the midwest section, we already have turn one racing
not a bad idea at all... however, i think it presents 2 problems for a lot of riders.
1. just because you're on pace with the next group, doesn't mean you're ready for your bump. it's usually more important that you're smooth, predictable, and consistent - especially when you're getting your bump from "B" to "I". As long as you line up in the front of the group before heading out on the track, you'll ride with your respective group's captain and most likely get bumped when you're ready.
2. insurance. some riders are still carrying full coverage on their bikes and one of the main reasons that companies are still covering losses from a track day are because they're considered an "untimed event". A lap timing system would change everything. Most of the CRs have lap timers and have a good idea as to what pace everyone is running. If someone wants their lap time, they can usually ask the CR they were working with, or just buy their own for as cheap (or cheaper) than a transponder.
1: Your exactly right thats why I said maybe it could just HELP in some of the decision making. I think it would be nice to have the ability to know what some of the other groups, classes are doing, and also the people that you befriend at the events.
I know in WERA you get the same AMB transponder every event you attend. Maybe NESBA could offer more then one type of membership and incorporate one that includes the rental of your personal transponder at the events you attend. That way riders have the option of choosing to have one or not and buying it from NESBA and can just log onto the Mylaps.com and see their results and friends.
2: I did not know that about ins. but I dunno if my idea would breech ins. rules and regulations. I mean its not mandatory that you have one. It would still be riders choice to do it like they do with the track side support fella. But who knows, after all its just an idea to throw around. I just thought people might enjoy the Mylaps.com website and having the ability to rent one of the AMB transponders because I have fun using it.
sternsi
Control Rider
Any timed event then makes it more of a race school instead of a learing school. We will never have a timer out there with printed lap times. Our insurance, along with members would go way up.
If you crash at a track day, you insurance carrier will cover you and the bike almost 100% of the time.
If you make it a timed event, that number drops to more like 20%. Alot of companies have a clause in the contract that does not cover " racing or timed events "
I personally like some of the idea coming out in this thread. Keep the idea coming guys and gals!
If you crash at a track day, you insurance carrier will cover you and the bike almost 100% of the time.
If you make it a timed event, that number drops to more like 20%. Alot of companies have a clause in the contract that does not cover " racing or timed events "
I personally like some of the idea coming out in this thread. Keep the idea coming guys and gals!
1) Nesba needs to get the word out about Nesba, maybe through some advertising or a booth at some of the winter Cycle World shows. 2)I suggest that first time track riders be held from the very first "B" session. This would allow them additional time for some rider instruction and bike prep. I do not have a problem with the $75 membership or the trackday fees.