Otto Man goes on a toy hauler adventure...

[Otto Man]

So awhile back, I started an enclosed trailer build to track my progress on how I built the trailer to suit my needs, what I did good, what I would do again, etc. I was looking for examples of what others did, and wanted to contribute my own. What actually turned out to be very good for me was when I went to sell the trailer - another member on this forum got to see the history of it. So, that's an ulterior motive to this thread for the day when I have to sell. Being active duty, I have no idea where I'm going next, so I highly, highly doubt I'll actually be able to keep this for more than 2-3 years. So anyways, here's the link to my trailer build:

http://forum.n2td.org/index.php?threads/otto-man-begins-an-enclosed-trailer-journey.23223/

I actually need to dig through my old pics and find some pictures when it was "done" (Builds are never done, I think it just gets to be 'good enough' and you don't bother with it anymore). But in the end, I wired the trailer for 30 amp RV power, installed a TON of outlets inside, lights, A/C, tire rack, Pitbull TRS system x3. It worked extremely well, but as the family started going to almost all the WERA races and track days, it was a natural progression to move into a toy hauler.

The Tahoe I had with the enclosed trailer was a complete TURD as a tow vehicle. It struggled towing that 7x20 trailer (~3,000lbs empty). It couldn't hold over drive on the highway. Hills...wow, hills were terrible. It swayed a lot (Probably having an anti-sway hitch would have helped). Oh, and it got a whopping 7 MPG towing. So I sold it, and picked up a diesel '04.5 Ram 2500, 4x4, CCSB, automatic with 4.10s. It literally towed the trailer like it wasn't there. It was remarkable. 13-14 MPG towing on the highway. I officially started drinking the 'diesel kool aid' after buying it. I wouldn't recommend towing anything bigger than a 7x16 with a gas powered full size SUV or truck after my experience with the Tahoe.

I could type a novel on how I chose my set up, so I'm going just cliff note most of it, but if you want to know more on why I chose what I chose, by all means ask. But here's the big things I wanted:

- On board generator. I didn't want to waste garage room with a genny. One more thing to load and unload to-boot.
- 50 amp service. Most all RV's that have 50 amp service have the Onan 5500 generator vs the 30 amp service with the Onan 4000. I wanted to be able to run the A/C, all the things inside the trailer, AND tire warmers - all at once. The 4000 genny simply could not do this.
- 15,000 BTU A/C unit. I hit the lottery with this one. It's got a 15k BTU unit. And a 13.5k BTU unit in the bedroom.
- 5th wheel over bumper pull. I've heard great things about 5th wheels, but never towed one prior to this. I already had the diesel truck...all I needed was a hitch. So I bought a B&W gooseneck + drop in 5th wheel slider hitch set up. I would give the B&W 5 out of 5 stars. Fantastic product, very glad I spend the extra $ on it over the competition.
- Fiberglass siding instead of the rigid aluminum siding. Fiberglass looks much cleaner (in my opinion) and is MUCH easier to wash/keep clean over the aluminum siding. On the down side, if you damage it, it's more expensive and a bigger PITA to fix.
- Garage style - separated garage or not separated. I really didn't care about this. I researched this until I thought my eyes were going to bleed - in the end, both have their ups and downs. Mine does not have a separated garage.

Enough text for one post...time to dig up some pics.

 

[Otto Man]

Eventually, I found "the one". A 2005 Forest River Sandpiper. 32' long, 14,000 GVWR, 2,000lb pin weight. All numbers that the truck can legally tow. Being just 32', it's one of the smallest (well, shortest) toy hauler you can get in a 5th wheel. I had installed Firestone air bags in preparation of the pin weight (anticipating a sagging rear end with the trailer hitched). However, my truck doesn't *need* them. It does help having about 6-8 PSI in them for stability purposes while towing. After having vary loads in the trailer, I've found adjusting the air bag pressure helps a ton depending on how heavy the load is. This is just the trailer I was looking for - all of the useful things, with none of the BS. You'll notice the interior isn't all that fancy - generic cabinets, nothing fancy. Some of the higher end toy haulers are VERY nice inside, with a very heavy price tag to match. I didn't care. It's got all the big things I wanted:

- Onan 5500 (~155 hours on it)
- 104 gallon fresh water tank. A lot of smaller haulers only have 30, 40, or 50 gallons. You can burn through that pretty fast - especially if you have a wife that likes to take non camper showers.
- 15k BTU A/C, with a 13.5k BTU in the master bedroom
- 16" rims over 15" - more stability towing
- (Bonus) it came with a Trail-Air hitch on it - there is an air bag on the pinbox. Pretty cool to watch the hitch absorbing the bumps in the rear view mirror while driving down the highway. These hitches are $1100+...I was happy.

Couple of high lights I remember from the drive home:

- Holy shit, this trailer is huge
- No, really, this thing looks absolutely gargantuan in the rear view mirrors.
- It definitely weighs more than the old enclosed trailer (~9,000lbs empty)...truck definitely feels this thing much more than the enclosed trailer.
- Besides the obvious getting up to speed much slower than not towing, I don't even realize I'm towing a house on wheels
- 5th wheels cut corners like CRAZY....swing wide. Very wide until you get used to it.
- Backing them up is very easy...provided you can see where you're going. I would absolutely recommend buying a pair of walkie-talkies and keeping them in the truck and having a ground guide. A down fall I found to 5th wheels is that they back up very easy, but you have to turn the tow vehicle much more to initiate turning. Therefore, sometimes you'll be backing up and see nothing but the side of the trailer...and wonder where the hell you're putting the trailer (Ground guide comes in very handy here). Also, be very cognizant of the front end of the tow vehicle while in reverse - since you're turning so much, it swings around much more.
- Holy shit did I mention the trailer is huge?!?!
- The overall length isn't that bad. Since the 32' length is measured from the hitch, there is a lot of trailer hanging over the bed of the truck vs a bumper pull. So it's almost like towing a 24-26' bumper pull trailer.

 

[Otto Man]

One of the first things to do was install the Pitbull TRS plates. I quickly found this to be much harder than with an enclosed trailer - There is the 25 gallon gas tank (for the genny/fuel station), gray water tank, fresh water tank, and black tank. All with additional reinforcement brackets underneath. So, to find a spot to place the bikes that would work in the trailer floor, AND still have access underneath (to get a socket on the TRS bolts) was rather...interesting. I probably spent 4-5 hours figuring out where to put them. I also wanted to get them as far forward as possible (over the axles) for weight distribution reasons. I'm very glad this was the first and last time I have to do this.

They say you can spell part time job with two letters - "RV". Well, they aren't kidding. Everyone that uses the RV loves the amenities, but with them comes more maintenance than your enclosed trailer. I had quite a few interesting adventures, but thankfully I believe the biggest ones are behind me.

I read many people suggested to camp in the trailer in your driveway for a night, to try everything out before you go on a trip. Well, of course 'ain't nobody got time fo dat', so I said screw that and headed out to VIR for the first track day of 2014. I go to use the kitchen faucet, and I get a nice jet stream of water in my face. Just like the movies. Welp...OK. Don't use the sink, use the bathroom sink instead. I go outside in the morning, and I see the gray water pipe is cracked on the bottom and leaking, and obviously there is no way to stop it. I try duct tape and it fails. Hey...at least I tried. While I was outside, I noticed the outside shower setup is also leaking. I opened up the belly storage and discover that the shower tub drain is leaking. Wonderful. The only thing I was missing was Cousin Eddie and a full shitter.

Learned several things after that weekend:

1) Do not be an idiot like me. Try everything out before you actually go out on your first trip.
2) 99% of RV stuff is all the same - kitchen faucets, outside shower, etc etc. Amazon.com is your friend. Honestly, replacing the kitchen faucet was a 5 minute job. So was the outside shower. I think it was like $30 for both. Easy-peasy.
3) Lowe's has a VERY small RV plumbing section, and just so happened to have the new doughnut gasket for the shower tub. Don't expect the dude working in plumbing to actually know this, you'll have to find it yourself.
4) Replacing a section of pipe on the gray water tank is also very easy, and a cheap fix.

HOWEVER...with all this. It was incredibly awesome having a real bed at the track. I spent $200 on a memory foam mattress for the bedroom and it was 10,000x better than the crap mattress it came with. It was awesome having heat at night. My wife LOVED having the bathroom 3 steps away. Having a refrigerator/freezer is awesome. Cooking breakfast in the morning on your stove top is kick ass. Tossing a frozen pizza in the oven for dinner is fantastic. Having a house at the track is just awesome.

 

[kappy1000]

Awesome stuff Otto; thanks for sharing!!

 

[Lenny ZX9R]

Great thread Otto! I just stay at the "Taj Mahal" when I can! aka Kappy's!

 

[vinny337]

Nice Bro!!

 

[prplppleatr239]

Thanks for the write up, it's quite useful as I'm currently in the shopping stage. Also, curse you for the write up, and the inevitable damage to my bank account.

Are you happy going with a 10yr old unit vs a new one? I know RVs depreciate like rocks, but at the same time don't like things that are liable to break.

How much extra time does it add to your trip? I'd imagine you can leave the bike and whatnot in there just like an enclosed trailer. Does filling and draining the water and poo tanks take long?

Does the driving part add stress to the trip? Interstates don't seem to be as much of an issue as the last 5 miles to get to the track. The road to Summit Point after getting off I-81 comes to mind, it's bad enough with a little trailer.

 

[Otto Man]

Fast forward a few months and a few track day weekends. Things I learned along the way:

- You get used to towing it very quickly. I was death gripping the steering wheel the first time I drove on tight streets/neighborhoods. After a few hundred miles, its no big deal. In fact, my wife has got a few hundred miles towing it, as does a fellow CR (Evil Cupcake) when we came back from Road Atlanta/Mid Ohio. Neither of them had towed a setup this big, and both got used to it quickly. It's honestly not that bad. The 5th wheel set up is so stable, it's remarkable.
- Having a shorter 5th wheel, I can still access most gas stations. I am not forced to truck stops only, but obviously I can't fit into the tiny gas stations. The more you tow, the confidence you'll get. I can put this thing *almost* anywhere, and after a full season with it, I can take a quick glance at a parking lot/gas station if I can fit or not.
- Hitching/unhitching is extremely easy. I don't have a fancy rear view camera on the bumper of my truck, so hooking up a bumper pull was always a PITA. You can watch the 5th wheel pin right outside the back window of the truck. Very easy. Fun fact: The 2" king pin is the same size as 18 wheelers (That have a GVWR of 80,000lbs!!!) So it goes without saying that any 5th wheel RV's hitch system is grossly overkill.
- You make all sorts of friends out of nowhere "Hey, you want to ride share this weekend?"

I did a lot of track weekends/races in 2014...but WERA's Cycle Jam in June was by far the most interesting trip of the year. It was the heaviest load the truck/trailer had. There was 3 of us riding together. The list of crap we had was huge:

- 4 bikes, two R6's, 1 CBR600, 1 ZX636
- 6 extra sets of wheels (Just the extras for the bikes, not including the ones on the bikes already)
- 35+ gallons of race gas in the bed of the truck
- Fresh water full (~800lbs in water weight alone)
- 25 gallon gas tank for the fuel station/genny filled
- 1 pit bike
- Extra 2k watt generator (More on this later...)
- A literal crap ton of extra parts...3 racer's combined stash.
- A literal crap ton of gear, since we all had duplicate things (Suits, helmets, boots, etc)

I got the truck/trailer weight at a CAT scale. I was just shy (under 100lbs) from hitting 24,000lbs curb weight. Front axle was about ~4,700lbs, rear axle was ~6,200lbs, and trailer wheels (tandem axle) was 12,000. Considering the load capacity of load range E tires are 3,200lbs/piece, I had 200 lbs of safety buffer before the rear truck tires were maxed out. Trailer tires were at their max. HOWEVER, again, this was the heaviest setup I would ever have, and I'm glad nothing was actually over weight. I could have fit more crap in the trailer, and just traveled with empty fresh water to save another 800lbs. We got about 9.5 MPG towing at 62-65MPH with this load. The fact that this is only about 3 MPG less than towing my old enclosed trailer, I couldn't complain at all. And I was splitting fuel costs between the three of us, so it was 1/3rd the cost. My truck and the stupid 48RE puts me around 2,000 RPM's at 65. Anyone that owns a Cummins knows that after 2,000 RPM, the MPG drops like a freaking rock - towing or not. It's most happy towing about 1800-1900 RPM.

About half way to Atlanta, we noticed the trailer was leaning funny when we stopped for food/fuel. Interesting...

This is when I learned about shackles wearing out, elongating the eyelets, and breaking. Fun.

 

[Otto Man]

So we had to do a parking lot repair. THANKFULLY, a Tractor Supply Company was only about 10-15 minutes away. Unhitched trailer, drove off. We got extremely lucky and they had replacement shackle kits. This is when I learned that, again, most of this trailer stuff is standardized. Of course we had about 18 billion pounds of tools on hand, so it wasn't too hard of a fix. All in all, it was about a 1.5 hr delay.

We get to Road Atlanta. It's hot. Really, really, really hot. Having A/C was the greatest thing. Ever. And then the electrical gremlins came out of the woodwork...

First, the CO2 detector was beeping annoyingly (Like a smoke detector with a low battery). Of course I thought it was mal functioning. Then the radio display started getting dim (WERA broadcasted the calls over the radio station). Then the radio quit working. Then the A/C shut off. Then the generator cut off. HMMM....uhhh....alright. Now we have no power (tire warmers) and no A/C (first world problems). Thankfully we fire up the little genny and we get by in the mean time.

I have to give a HUGE HUGE shout out to Dean at Integrity RV. They were one of the sponsors there, and were a HUGE help. I was trying to juggle making practices, racing, and fix the RV. Wow. What an ass pain, no nice way to put it. However Dean went above and beyond and helped me trouble shoot the problem. In the end, here were the two problems:

1) The master off/on switch had a loose connection on the back side and one of the electrical tabs broke off - therefore, the genny was not recharging the RV batteries. Dean fixed this by just by passing it, and bolted the two power wires together. Obviously as soon as I got back, I bought a new switch. It was a cheap $10 fix. This was strange, as I had not touched the master off/on switch since the beginning of the season.
2) One of the cells in one of the batteries died. Since the switch failed, it killed off the batteries (They were about 3-4 years old). The Road Atlanta heat did not help matters. Then they wouldn't take a charge anymore. I verified this after I got home with a volt meter. Two new batteries, and a new master switch, and it's been trouble free since. It goes without saying that if your trailer/toy hauler is a few years old, CHECK YOUR SHACKLES!!! Again, yet another learning experience...

 

[vinny337]

I remember when we met in ATL, you had an open trailer…Congrats!

 

[Otto Man]

Thanks for the write up, it's quite useful as I'm currently in the shopping stage. Also, curse you for the write up, and the inevitable damage to my bank account.

Are you happy going with a 10yr old unit vs a new one? I know RVs depreciate like rocks, but at the same time don't like things that are liable to break.

How much extra time does it add to your trip? I'd imagine you can leave the bike and whatnot in there just like an enclosed trailer. Does filling and draining the water and poo tanks take long?

Does the driving part add stress to the trip? Interstates don't seem to be as much of an issue as the last 5 miles to get to the track. The road to Summit Point after getting off I-81 comes to mind, it's bad enough with a little trailer.

- I'm extremely happy with going with a used unit. RV's do not hold their value worth a damn. It was a huge PITA finding a used trailer that people weren't asking a crazy high price for. A lot of people 100% finance these things, and need to get their pay off amount, but they are thousands upside down on the unit. I got lucky and found a guy that had the title in hand so he could negotiate a bit. The fact that I simply couldn't afford a $40k+ toy hauler also made the choice a lot easier. LOL

RV's are all built like crap. Seriously. Even the new ones. I looked at some of the $70k toy haulers (dreaming, of course). They are all assembled with the same cheap crap. Plenty of guys on rv.net have problems with brand new RV's. To be perfectly honest, I only have about $3-400 into this thing as far as repairs (New batteries, $200, master switch, new faucets, etc). That is a dramatic savings over the depreciation of a new RV. Yes, some of the higher end ones have badass things like auto leveling system, yada yada. But then I remember how much I saved, and it's totally worth it [for me] to go used. I found mine in excellent used condition and am very pleased with it.

- It adds a decent amount of time compared to an enclosed trailer. If you are anal about keeping stuff clean, there's that. Cleaning the shower, toilet, kitchen, mopping the floor...etc etc. I typically do this after every weekend. It is a house on wheels, after all. But you get into a routine, and it becomes just another part of prepping for the weekend. On average, I'd say I spend about an hour or so cleaning up after each weekend. Making sure paper towels are stocked, toilet paper, clean bathroom towels, etc etc.

You can leave the bikes in there, yes. But again, I'm rather anal about keeping things clean. Bike comes out and goes into the garage after every weekend and gets the fairings pulled, bike inspected, etc etc. I almost always flip the rear tire while I'm at it, so the bike has to come out (I have a tire machine in my garage). The wife LOVES to use water, so I make sure the fresh water tank is topped off before every weekend. Stick the garden hose in the fill port, turn it off once it starts coming out the over flow. Easy day. The poop tank is also not that bad. They recommend you don't empty it until it's at least 2/3rds full, so all the political promises can build up pressure and "flush out" easier. Obviously how fast it gets filled depends on how much you use your RV, but I only emptied mine I think 4 times this year. Takes about 15 minutes from start to finish to dump the tank. Dumping the gray tank (Shower/faucet water) is a debatable topic to some. Some dump it in their yards, some dump it with the black water (After dumping the black tank, to help clean out the dump hose). Some get heated because they think it's "gross" water and should only be dumped at a RV station. It fills up much faster than the black tank and you will have to dump it more often. It is nothing but kitchen faucet water and shower water. That's all I'm saying about that. As far as added time on the trip, not much. Truck is a bit slower getting off the line compared to towing an enclosed trailer, but nothing big. I keep a book in the truck with the tracks I go to, and the highway exits that are trailer friendly for stopping for fuel. Not any more difficult, just requires a little bit of planning.

- Like I said in the earlier posts, you get used to it quick. I don't even sweat towing it anymore. You get used to it fast. Summit Point isn't bad. I forget which exit I take off 81 (I'd have to consult my book in the truck), but the route I go isn't that bad. I've passed many other toy haulers going the opposite direction without fearing we were going to fly off the road. It reminds me a lot like when I was in Novice group, and I couldn't fathom being fast enough for Advanced group. But once you get there (In this case, towing a toy hauler) you realize it's not as daunting as you thought it would be.

 

[damiankelly]

"political promises" my favorite quip of yours! good one..

 

[Motofun352]

I haul a 42' toyhauler...everything he says is true...especially the part about cutting corners. This is not really a problem, just act like you're driving a 18 wheeler and the cars will get out of your way as you swing wide.
The "oil thread" question is "which tires are best for a RV"?

 

[physicistkev]

Shackles. I love shackles. Just wait until you need to replace the springs on that thing, if there are any. I just went through a suspension (and brakes) overhaul on a 7k# boat trailer. The running gear is not as large as what you have, but the fun is about the same. Getting the right springs is a nightmare, and if you can't find the exact springs, you're moving mount points around. Let me tell you.... that's awesome.

Good post though. Educational for sure. One thing I think would be helpful is to understand what the impact on insurance is. I know how it works with my boat, but how do you handle the large trailer for insurance.

 

[Otto Man]

Shackles. I love shackles. Just wait until you need to replace the springs on that thing, if there are any. I just went through a suspension (and brakes) overhaul on a 7k# boat trailer. The running gear is not as large as what you have, but the fun is about the same. Getting the right springs is a nightmare, and if you can't find the exact springs, you're moving mount points around. Let me tell you.... that's awesome.

Good post though. Educational for sure. One thing I think would be helpful is to understand what the impact on insurance is. I know how it works with my boat, but how do you handle the large trailer for insurance.

Insurance isn't bad, at all. When it's connected to the truck, it falls under the truck's insurance. I bumped that up for obvious reasons. The RV insurance comes into play when it's not hooked up to the truck. I'd have to review the policy, but I remember the insurance is over covered. I did not want to be at a loss if something would happen to the trailer. I put the biggest deductible I could ($1000), knowing I'd only make a claim if the trailer got totaled or whatever. Obviously, asking what people pay for insurance is the most loaded question in the world with all the variables at play, but it'sunder $300 for a year of coverage. Very cheap to insure considering the cost of the RV.

 

[Otto Man]

So after the shackle fiasco, I knew some maintenance was in order. I spent a weekend giving the trailer some love. Many trailer axles have "EZ Lube" axles, the kind where you just put a grease gun on the zerk fitting on the axle cap and pump new grease in. This is a supposed "upgrade", but I'm not a fan. Luckily (or unlucky?) my trailer does not have these. I don't like them for a few reasons:

1) It takes about 500 gallons of grease to use them properly. You have to pump grease until you completely fill the spindle and hub. Otherwise, the inner wheel bearing gets no grease.
2) You shove and pump all that old, crappy grease through your wheel bearings
3) You pump grease until the inner wheel bearing gets grease, then risk getting grease over your brakes.
Despite what you might think, grease on your brake shoes causes them to get very, very grabby, not the other way around. But it's just as bad, because modulating braking power becomes near impossible and they are just as useless.

To me, there is only one way to properly pack your wheel bearings. And it's the old school way that's a tried and true method, and also the messiest, pain in the ass method. But it works well. You tear apart the hubs, remove the wheel bearings, clean out everything, and pack the wheel bearings by hand. It's a very slow, tedious, involved effort but it gives absolute peace of mind knowing it was done right.

Hint: To pop out the inner wheel bearing seal with no damage to the seal itself, thread the spindle nut back on a few turns by hand (Remove the outer wheel bearing also). Grasping the hub firmly at the 9 and 3 o clock positions, pull down slightly and yank on the hub. You may have to rotate the hub once or twice to pop out the seal evenly. What you are doing is using the spindle nut to make contact with the inner wheel bearing. The wheel bearing then pops out the inner seal (The seal holds in the wheel bearing cage). Ta da! Inner seal removed in 5 seconds with no cussing involved.

The wheel bearings looked just fine, as did the brakes, so I saw no need to replace any of it. Just cleaned up everything and repacked the bearings.

A roll of paper towels, a new tub of wheel bearing grease, a dozen pair of latex gloves (Very nice to wear while packing the wheel bearings), paint, and a lot of TLC and you get this. I sanded down the brake shoes, put never seize on all needed locations, yada yada. Brakes no longer squeak when activated...very nice.

 

[Otto Man]

Assembled, painted, ready to rock. Much better!

 

[moto1320]

I was a tech my whole life. This tool is your friend. It's like the hand method but better. On the fly, it sort of acts like a flush and you don't have to clean them out first unless you just want to:

 

[physicistkev]

The "bump up" for auto coverage was what I was after. Many people don't realize that they need to up their auto insurance to cover the damage to or from the trailer in an incident.

Why not go to disk brakes? Is there something wrong with using disk brakes on the hauler? I love the change from drum to disk on my boat trailer.

 

[03bueller]

I just got my toyhauler earlier this year, and it's a monster hooked up to the back of my truck.

On a side note *shameless plug* I sell those bearing packers