Pitt 7/10

DethWshBkr

New Member
I run intermediate so I know some of the passing rules are different. I would have passed at 411 if I was closer than you were at that moment. I would have done everything to be clean but I would have pushed and prepped a turn ahead to make sure it was clean.

440 on the video I would have absolutely passed but again I would have worked hard to make sure that I prepped before and was much closer than you appeared (Video distortion from wide angle could be a factor in my comments).

533 was a clean pass and left plenty of time for the passed rider to correct if needed.

1257 was a clean pass by that KTM in my opinion you were not near the apex and there was plenty of space. you cannot wait for every rider but I do appreciate your concerns.

1424 also looked clean to me you were both upright and not on the apex at all.

you seem very considerate and that is nice but I think you are overanalyzing this a bit. I think there are many clean opportunities you shared and you should push appropriately. Dont be too aggressive but pushing is fine and expected I feel.

I understand. I'm still not used to this structured riding. I'd rather have people see my bike and I out there and know that I'm that guy who's too cautious around others.
Id rather over analyze a video of novice riding (which will have errors and bad choices) than put someone on the ground or be the guy that makes someone nervous!

I may have other video, I have really had a chance to look everything over yet.
 

mpusch

Micah
Can someone (or a few people) give me some opinions for my learning? This was my 3 o'clock session. Decided to line up on the left side, and try it out to see if it would allow the session to flow smoother. It did.




The whole way through 2:40 (lap 0) I take as a warm up lap.
4:11-4:14. (1:31 into lap 1) I wanted to push up and try to at least make 1 pass, but I wanted to be courteous to the other rider(s) and not force something. While obviously better to err on the side of caution - would that have been OK to push up? There were multiple instances of people pushing up on the right side in that spot. This of course would shuffle me back another spot, and make it difficult to make the pass again later, as I lost that space.
Same around 4:40-4:50.
5:33 I felt it was good for one, but not for the other.
7:37, finally felt I could do it without being a jerk. Overcooked a but though and was sliding the rear tire on decel down the hill. Oops.

Lap 4. Got a lap where any passes felt very black and white as far as being "good". Finally got a relatively clean track, and had my best complete lap. Made a bunch of errors in lines, but got to finally try to put it together.

12:57. Was this pass ok? I didn't feel like passing there was wise as it's right between two turns, but perhaps I'm being too cautious there. If it's legit, that's fine. I'll keep that in mind for the next visit. With that "busy" section, I don't want to startle or cause another rider to have to alter their plans.

14:24 - was this OK? I honestly felt bad making that pass. I felt like it was too close to the corner for the other rider, but in the heat of that run, I did not want to let that other guy go.

3:05 - (way up front) had to be one of the weirder "blends" I've seen coming on track for T3.

4:11 - This is one of my favorite passing spots, but you need a good run out of the last S to make it work. The second rider looked like he was complicating that clean pass some. You probably would have made the rider directly in front of you adjust lines. Don't blame you for being cautious there.

4:40 (and pretty much everywhere else I've seen so far) - You are not getting to 100% throttle. Coming out of the left kink you should be rolling onto 100% throttle and then doing the math on whether YOUR line and pace will get you by cleanly. If not, ease up a bit and adjust. But START with your pace, not just following him. The right hand kink is definitely a no pass zone, so it's good to be a bit patient here, but there's tons of time to get cleanly by someone on that straight with that speed differential.

General note - in addition to not being at full throttle, you're really short shifting gears, especially on the front straight. Now, as others will certainly note, the most important elements to be learning right now are awareness, lines, passing, etc rather than outright speed. But being in the reasonably right gear and getting to 100% throttle at least on the straights are good things to get right. Again, you're in Novice and I don't want you to be overwhelmed working on 10 things out there, but you also don't want to get into bad habits.

5:33 - great job on the pass into T3

6:18 - will be an awesome outside pass in Intermediate.

7:05 - I can see that you were starting to roll on and go for the pass but he started to drift a little left on you. Could have gotten it done staying on the throttle, but I understand the bit of hesitancy.

7:13 - Ok, here we go. Todd always talked about this one and it opened my eyes. Right after you go through the right kink, carry an inside line as the rider in front drifts outside. Your pace is a fair bit quicker and you could have gone right by him with little effort on the right.

7:22 (and other laps) - Do not be afraid of that patch of discolored asphalt in the dry. Plenty of grip there.

Definitely have to work on that turn in the gulch. Being that far off the apex will bite you eventually as you try to turn back towards the track.

10:00 or so - Hey, full throttle and using the whole gear. There we go. 10:50 - And an apex in the gulch!

12:57 - I would have gone around. Personally, seeing how he was a fair bit off your pace through T3 and T4, I would have gone around on the right side exiting T4.

14:24 - Probably fine. Not the end of the world as it probably didn't alter his lines and you got it done, though doing it to just stay with someone is not necessarily the motivation you want.

Summary: Analysis I think is healthy, but over analysis can cause a lot of second guessing too. I think you'll be a good rider. You seem comfortable using the bike, especially on the brakes relative to your peers. You use your noggin and choose to be a bit cautious when presented a choice that is close. With more seat time, working on your lines, and getting used to Pitt, I think you'll find you drop a fair bit of time while decreasing the risk of how you ride. I also have a hunch that you have some work to do on where you're looking. Feels like you're following the rider in front of you more than running your lines and adjusting it as appropriate for the rider in front.
 

tad158

Astronomer not Astrologer
I have a comment on shifting. You are on an right? The red line is 15k. You should be in a gear such that at apex you should be pulling 6-8k rpm. Many times you are dropping down to 3 and 4k rpm, that really hurts your drive out of the corners. I think I even noticed that you shifted at like 10k in a few spots, you should be shifting near 14k rpm. The r6 makes its power at the top top of the range. Use it.
 

DethWshBkr

New Member
I have a comment on shifting. You are on an right? The red line is 15k. You should be in a gear such that at apex you should be pulling 6-8k rpm. Many times you are dropping down to 3 and 4k rpm, that really hurts your drive out of the corners. I think I even noticed that you shifted at like 10k in a few spots, you should be shifting near 14k rpm. The r6 makes its power at the top top of the range. Use it.

It's an 05 R1. But yes, you are absolutely correct. I do short shift.
To be honest, it's just my "style". I very rarely (even in my MX days) revved an engine hard unless I was really trying to go to work. Also, I've ridden Honda all my life. I am NOT used to Yamahas, and at 10k, my Honda is screaming. I know Yamadogs are revvers, and that will take me some time to get comfortable with. I just feel like I'm going to blow the motor at 10-13k. It feels fine, and I know it is fine, but when I'm concentrating on the track, and the other riders - I am reverting back to "Honda Feel". You should see my first videos from Summit. I was dropping down to 2500-3000 rpm sometimes!! So yeah, I think it's a false sense of "engine preservation". But I noticed that too when I was watching.
 

DethWshBkr

New Member
You seem comfortable using the bike, especially on the brakes relative to your peers. You use your noggin and choose to be a bit cautious when presented a choice that is close. With more seat time, working on your lines, and getting used to Pitt, I think you'll find you drop a fair bit of time while decreasing the risk of how you ride. I also have a hunch that you have some work to do on where you're looking. Feels like you're following the rider in front of you more than running your lines and adjusting it as appropriate for the rider in front.

Definitely not afraid of the bike, and not afraid of the brakes. Often times, I was staying back further from a rider on the main straight, knowing I was going to close up on them like crazy in the braking zone. Unfortunately, that disrupts my flow, doesn't really teach my anything, and allows others to pass me, which then really screws me up! Definitely will work on that.

Absolutely, when following someone, I am NOT doing what I should be. I am just dropping out of my "zone" and waiting for an easy passing opportunity. I will need to work on that, as I saw I used an overabundance of caution and consideration instead of setting myself up or trying to "feel" a line. I do NOT mind being careful, but I'm definitely hurting myself by not trying to work the track, myself, or the bike when behind a slower rider.

I saw some of the pictures Marty took. Same corner, and you can clearly, clearly see when I am "on pace", and when I'm just following someone. I really will need to work on that too.
 

tad158

Astronomer not Astrologer
It's an 05 R1. But yes, you are absolutely correct. I do short shift.
To be honest, it's just my "style". I very rarely (even in my MX days) revved an engine hard unless I was really trying to go to work. Also, I've ridden Honda all my life. I am NOT used to Yamahas, and at 10k, my Honda is screaming. I know Yamadogs are revvers, and that will take me some time to get comfortable with. I just feel like I'm going to blow the motor at 10-13k. It feels fine, and I know it is fine, but when I'm concentrating on the track, and the other riders - I am reverting back to "Honda Feel". You should see my first videos from Summit. I was dropping down to 2500-3000 rpm sometimes!! So yeah, I think it's a false sense of "engine preservation". But I noticed that too when I was watching.

OK even on the 05 r1, you need to be way higher in the Rev range, it has a a similar power curve, all at the top. It is gutless below 5k.

Even at the 11 min mark you are alone you short shift at like 9k.
 

DethWshBkr

New Member
OK even on the 05 r1, you need to be way higher in the Rev range, it has a a similar power curve, all at the top. It is gutless below 5k.

Even at the 11 min mark you are alone you short shift at like 9k.

Yeah, I just rewatched that part. Not sure why I did that. Guess I was just feeling lazy at that point!
 

tad158

Astronomer not Astrologer
Ha! I thought you were going to post one of my old I group videos where I am putting around doing exactly what I said he needs to fix.
 

tdelegram

Control Rider
Way too much in this thread and videos and a lot has been covered. I would suggest for any novice rider to focus on the following:
  • Consistent predictable lines, be on the race line unless you’re passing
  • solid foot position on pegs
  • smooth brake, gas and bar inputs
  • vision, where and when your looking (this will help pace)
  • as you start to get to the top of the novice group, pads on rotors too the apex, trail braking
  • Good decisions and FOLLOWING the group rules
 

DethWshBkr

New Member
Beleive it or not, all of this critiquing is extremely helpful to me. Its things I don't realize Im doing sometimes.
For example - I only noticed last night there are 2 cones on the inside of every corner, and I one on the outside. I just assumed they were corner marker cones, or some other unimportant purpose. I know one of the CRs had pointed out the outside cones, with I took to be areas he recommended I aim for. Well, now after watching my videos again, and watching Otto's video -JUST REALIZED those double cones are the intended apex, and proper race line, with I "believe" the outside cone intended to be a "tip in" marker.
Watching my videos at Summit, and hu....guess what. Cones in the corner on what appear to be the race line apex.

Friggin brilliant. I can go an entire day on track without realizing the purpose of those cones.

So I guess that should help my lines a bit.

As tdelegram said too -
  • Consistent predictable lines, be on the race line unless you’re passing.
I'll no longer just "follow" someone, and Im definitley going to be more "purposeful" when behind someone, rather than just content to follow (which puts me off my intended path, and is having me learn NOTHING).

Next day I hope is Summit on the 9th. Track day #4 -definitely excited to try some things out!
 

tdelegram

Control Rider
First come by itself is the entry apex, 2 cones at apex is to get the direction, your bike should be parallel to these cones at apex, the last cone is the exit apex, you should be able to go cone to cone around the whole track and be very close to the race line.
 
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