Riding efficiently

How much energy do you use at a track day?

  • 1-very little; a walk in the park

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • 2-get tired each session but regroup before the next session

    Votes: 2 11.8%
  • 3-get depleted as the day goes on but run all/most of the day/weekend

    Votes: 9 52.9%
  • 4-am mostly dead all day for 1-3 days after a track day/weekend

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • Total voters
    17

bmart

Control Rider
Hi all,

I'm always interested in hearing what techniques people use at a track day. Many people I ride with tell me that I look like I am using minimal energy to ride while they feel destroyed after each session and come in early and/or leave a day early.

I used to go home and be in agony from day 2 to day 4 after a weekend but hunted for ways to solve that. It was uncomfortable and I didn't like it. :) Still, I hear many riders complain about leg and knee pain in particular, and quite a few seem to run only some sessions or only part of each session.

So, what are you struggling with and what works for you tt get you safely through a track day/weekend with minimal recovery?
 

Str8_Lurkin

Member
Proper clip on and rearset adjustments go a long way. I strive to ride every session and 95% the allott time. I do get fatigued on day 2 after lunch though and come in usually so I can start packing for the trip home around 4pm.

A good night's rest and staying active between lunch helps with the soreness.
 

mdhokie

Member
I get overall fatigue as the day goes on, due to exertion and heat (much worse on hottest days), but mostly manageable. Lots of hydration helps, and cardio exercise to keep in shape.

Acute problem: legs. The muscles on the front of my thighs over my knees are in pain every session within a few laps. Those muscles are often sore for a couple days after track weekends (especially after the first one of the year, and two-day track weekends), and I feel it especially walking down steps. It's caused by supporting most of my weight over my inside footpeg when I'm hanging off the bike. I try to use my outside leg on the tank to take some of the weight away. In some particular corners, though, I just can't seem to find a way not to have all my weight over that inside leg bent double. As my leg gets more worn out, my body position suffers and I can't rotate my knee out to get that "triangle of daylight"; it wants to turn inwards and rest against the bike for extra support. Any tips would be welcome.
 

tdelegram

Control Rider
You might think I am joking, but go faster. As pace picks up your weight will be pushed into the bike not down. Centripetal force. The other thing to try is only drop your knee at apex then pull your leg in. No reason to drag it past apex or even all the way around the turn, once you get to your max angle pull in your leg.
 

mdhokie

Member
You might think I am joking, but go faster. As pace picks up your weight will be pushed into the bike not down. Centripetal force.
I know what you mean. Turn 7/8/9, the long series of right-handers at NJMP Thunderbolt, used to kill my legs but got so much easier when I added 10-20mph and I was effectively neutral hanging off the bike instead of holding myself off the bike. I think it's the decreasing radius braking turns that strain my legs the worst, as I slow down.
 

rschiela

New Member
I find my knees stiff and hurting the first couple of sessions, but then in the afternoon they seem to warm up (or endorphins) and I don't feel as much pain after sessions. That said, I'm excited to see if this year is different with knee pain and fatigue. This will be my third season. And I'm not sure if this is what you meant, because you more experienced folks probably have solid rider position. And good position is probably an easy answer for helping with pain and fatigue. But, this off-season, on the street, I happened to shift forward closer to the tank, and all of a sudden I now understand how to lock my upper leg in properly. For the first two seasons, I had way too much weight on my arms and lower leg due to being too far from the tank, which put a lot of pressure on the lower knee. This off season, I'm able to take almost all my weight off the bars so I can just put pressure on to counter steer. Since I've only been on the street, I am not braking or leaning anything near what I would on the track. So, I'm hoping that I'll be able to continue it on the track and will also relieve some strain on the lower knee. and forearms. That said, I also noticed that my lower knee is bent more at a sharper angle when I'm closer to the tank. So, I'm not sure if that will be harder on the knees when lifting or not.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
A way to reduce fatigue is to limit movement. For example, if you have two right hand turns coming up in a row, stay off the seat to the inside until after both turns - don't re-center on the seat in between two turns in the same direction. Saves energy, and doesn't upset the bike. Win-win.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
I find my knees stiff and hurting the first couple of sessions, but then in the afternoon they seem to warm up (or endorphins) and I don't feel as much pain after sessions. That said, I'm excited to see if this year is different with knee pain and fatigue. This will be my third season. And I'm not sure if this is what you meant, because you more experienced folks probably have solid rider position. And good position is probably an easy answer for helping with pain and fatigue. But, this off-season, on the street, I happened to shift forward closer to the tank, and all of a sudden I now understand how to lock my upper leg in properly. For the first two seasons, I had way too much weight on my arms and lower leg due to being too far from the tank, which put a lot of pressure on the lower knee. This off season, I'm able to take almost all my weight off the bars so I can just put pressure on to counter steer. Since I've only been on the street, I am not braking or leaning anything near what I would on the track. So, I'm hoping that I'll be able to continue it on the track and will also relieve some strain on the lower knee. and forearms. That said, I also noticed that my lower knee is bent more at a sharper angle when I'm closer to the tank. So, I'm not sure if that will be harder on the knees when lifting or not.

Ideally, you should be about a fist-width off the tank. This will allow you to get your upper body off (keeping your spine in line with the bike), and not be "crossed up" when hanging off. You'll want that inside foot at a 45 degree angle with your foot towards the edge of the peg. Those things will allow you to move off the bike better, creating the "triangle of light" as you'll be able to stick your knee out easier.

Correct, you don't want weight on your hands (except during heavy braking in a straight line). Core!
 

Motofun352

Control Rider
Like any physical sport, stretching before the activity is important. Get loosened up. Focus on the major leg muscles, especially the thighs.
 

2blueyam

Member
Like any physical sport, stretching before the activity is important. Get loosened up. Focus on the major leg muscles, especially the thighs.
This may not apply to the kids, but us over 50 folk need this:
Stretch again before getting back on the bike after lunch. Even a bit of stretching before every session isn't a bad thing.
Take a bit of time to warm down before hopping in the truck / van for that long ride home is a good thing too. Stop and stretch on the way at least once as well. If you have been hydrating properly, you will probably need a bathroom stop anyway. Your body will thank you the next day. Speaking of the next day, try to get in some mild exercise, at least a walk to loosen things up.
 

DethWshBkr

New Member
Im curious to see how this works out. In my MX days, I would be absolutely destroyed by the end of the day. I knew it was time to stop when I started "riding lazy". If I didn't want to stand up for a jump, or didn't feel like sticking my leg out, or even just didn't feel like charging many corners and ended up coasting a lot - it was time to call it a day.
Curious to see how my now out of shape self tires out during this!
 

Motofun352

Control Rider
Bad stuff can happen if you ride lazy (ie tired). My answer is to pull into the pit at that point, even if there is still time left in your 20 minute session. Better to have 10 good laps where you're trying and learning then 15 laps of coasting.
 

bmart

Control Rider
Hey all, really interesting results so far (and I hope that others chime in). Currently two thirds aren't feeling great/strong/at their peak, and some have shared their ideas on how to feel better.

  • Proper bike ergos; be sure that the bike is set up for you to minimize exhaustion
  • Be rested! (I need 9 hours/night to feel good)
  • Stay hydrated (I'm not kidding, I saw a guy at a non-N2 day collapse onto his tank and go straight off of the track at top speed at the end of the straight at VIR South once. He REFUSED to drink all day (tough guy...) and could have really hurt some people. Don't let this be you. Drink. Pee. Ride.
  • Be fit, and work on the muscles you're going to use for track days, and stretch between sessions
  • I love "go faster", Tom. I have found this the most rewarding on the old CMP surface. Because there was so much to look at and be tense about, the bike always fed that back into the riders contact points. If the rider focused on proper lines, technique, the speed came and the irregularities of the track mostly disappeared. This can be carried to most tracks!
  • Limiting movement is excellent. Only do what you have to. As coaches, we see a lot of upsetting the suspension when following folks around.
Amongst my many limitations (no speed or riding ability jokes!), I'm prone to migraines from a consortium of potential triggers and normally got one for a few days after every track event. (A smart person woudl have changed hobbies, right?) Abuse of neck/shoulder/back muscles was certainly a contributor. Also, we have a dominant side and tend to either over use it or over protect it. Be mindful of the muscles you're using on each side of your body and of the contact points and pressure and angle there. You don't want to twist your joints.

On track days that I'm coaching, I will frequently ride 2-3 sessions each hour for most of both days. I'm not bragging, but pointing out that it can be done, and it can be done without mind numbing pain during or after. Some things that worked for me:
  • I got a bike that matched my riding style. My 750 required so much physical effort to ride/turn that I was sore early on. My R6 suits my lean frame and allows me to crawl all over it much easier. I exert less effort and could then use by body weight to manipulate the chassis, and I can use physics to help choose when I move.
  • I all but stopped weighting the pegs for anything more than needed once I started using the outer thigh to hold my body. That's thigh, not knee. Spread out that job to the big muscles not a bone/joint. My legs and knees used to kill, now I feel almost nothing after two long days of riding...and I don't work out an ounce.
  • I really focus on my neck/shoulder/back muscles and try to run them as relaxed as possible. Believe (like?) it or not, focusing on breathing really helps with this.
As always, I highly recommend going into a track day with a plan in mind. Pick a skill or technique that you want to add or improve on, one for each session, and focus on that until muscle memory kicks in on the others. At the end of the day/weekend, the times (and related safety) will come.

(And don't forget to sign up for VIR South for our two weekday events there this year!)
 

CBRtist

Well-Known Member
Few things that might get overlooked, that I employ these days being in the 50+ crowd

• ALCOHOL. Many talk about hydration, but few about not drinking the night before *gasp*. The less, the better. I stopped “having a few”, down to none, a few years back. To hydrate throughout the day, I plop Nuun tablets in my water. A CR once told me if you aren’t urinating between each session, you aren’t hydrating enough.

• NAP. I’m a mid day napper. I try to get in a power nap of about 20-30 mins. If I can’t sleep, I try to lie in a relaxed position with eyes closed and focus on my breathing. This still allows the body/mind a rest. If I’m extra tired, I’ll chug a green tea (or any caffeine product) right before I lie down for a “super charged nap”. The caffeine takes about 20 minutes to enter your system, and in combination with the nap, you’ll wake up with extra energy.

• HAND/ARM STRETCHES. Bend each finger back and hold. Put hands together in a prayer gesture and hold. Hold your arm straight and pull back your hand to stretch your elbow and do tricep stretches to target your elbow. These stretches aren’t to address weight/tension in your arms (because there shouldn’t be any), rather, the repetitive motions we do when riding. In this sport, some get carpal tunnel and tennis elbow. Do these stretches especially if you work with your hands/arms in your daily life.

I‘ll be on motorcycles 4 days in a row this weekend and loading/unloading. This stuff is essential, along with what was mentioned, to make it past day 4
 

JustAnotherSquid

Used to ride a motorcycle
RRR was my first time on the track since 2002, and after two full days I could have easily done a third.

( --> insert "well yeah that's because you ride like a pansy" jokes here <-- )

I'm pretty sure it's because I work out consistently during the week. Nothing crazy, just a light mix of cardio, weights, and yoga. It all helps, and it all matters.

(That's in addition to everything everyone else said, which are also key ingredients: staying hydrated, limiting alcohol, staying loose, etc.)
 

bmart

Control Rider
• HAND/ARM STRETCHES. Bend each finger back and hold. Put hands together in a prayer gesture and hold. Hold your arm straight and pull back your hand to stretch your elbow and do tricep stretches to target your elbow. These stretches aren’t to address weight/tension in your arms (because there shouldn’t be any), rather, the repetitive motions we do when riding. In this sport, some get carpal tunnel and tennis elbow. Do these stretches especially if you work with your hands/arms in your daily life.

I'm with you on this one. I also drive a stick shift, so the right arm and leg get a little workout on the way and the way back from the track. Stretching my right side adn all 10 fingers really makes a difference.
 
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