Tips for R1 on track

mdhokie

Member
Hi, this will be my second full season on the track with N2. Last year, I used my street Yamaha FZ1; it was reasonably fast and I think a great bike to learn on. I picked up a 2010 R1 over the winter and plan on using it this season. I wanted an R6, but I got a good deal on a race-ready track bike that I couldn't pass up. Since it's not road-legal, I haven't had any opportunity to test it out on the road and get a feel for the bike at speed before taking it to the track (planning on doing my first track day at NJMP 4/30). I was hoping to get some tips on how to learn to use the bike's potential without the high-side learning experiences. I have attended YCRS and learned a lot of good general techniques that should work on all bikes (they make a big point of this), but it's still definitely a different ride than what I'm used to and some of the techniques are applied differently.

Concerns:
1) Throttle: YCRS teaches utmost smoothness on throttle and braking, and maintenance throttle through turn between braking and acceleration. On my FZ1, I could find maintenance throttle pretty easily. The R1 has a fairly aggressive on/off throttle response: in my perception, 3% does nothing, 4% makes the engine stutter a little without actually doing anything, and 5% causes it to take out the chain slack all at once, shift the weight backwards, and lunge forwards. Fine in a straight line, but not the feel I want at max lean angle. Is this something that can be tuned out (it has a PC-V fuel controller), or is this something you just have to get used to and adapt? Like, skip maintenance throttle, and only roll on the gas when reducing lean angle and completely ready to accelerate out of the corner? Or maybe I just need to be braver and be okay with a little unsettling motion mid-turn? Or, "try harder, you're just not being smooth enough"?

2) Engine braking is also twice as intense as the other bike; I'm a little concerned that less-than-perfect downshifts are going to send my rear wheel sliding. I know there are hardware aids like ECU tuning, auto-blipper, and slipper clutch. I also know I should be blipping throttle and rev matching while downshifting, but in practice I just feather the clutch instead because I haven't been able to get the hang of blipping without affecting my braking modulation. Or, should I just learn not to care if the rear tire is squirming around during braking? I've had it happen before and it didn't seem to affect my line so long as I kept stable and smooth on the front brake.

3) Body position: I know you're supposed to try to keep your hands light on the steering bars to allow more precise control with less input force, and avoid locked elbows sending suspension feedback into steering. That was easy to do with upright position on FZ1, but with my butt and feet so much higher and rearward (bike has aggressive rearsets), my weight is naturally falling forward. I was also told to try sitting far back on the seat, which only amplifies the effect. I tried practicing sitting on the bike on stands. The only way I could "hands free" hold myself up is by squeezing the tank tightly with both legs; as soon as I start to lean to the side and let go with my inside leg, I'll fall over and end up laying on the tank. Perhaps it will be different at speed, when I'm leaning against the centripetal force (or inertia on my original trajectory if you want to be pedantic)?

Perhaps I already know what I need to do, and it's just a matter of practice, but if anybody has specific tips, I'm all ears.
 

mdhokie

Member
Love the bike though -- it's beautiful! I hope I don't have to decide it's just too much bike.
 
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mdhokie

Member
On the throttle response front, it's worth noting it has a Motion Pro Rev2 throttle. It's currently fitted with the orange "RR" street/road race progressive cam. It's supposed to be slightly slower response than original throttle at low openings (though that doesn't appear to be the case on the graph at https://www.motionpro.com/c/rev2-throttle?v=8662), but goes to 100% throttle at just under 60 degrees rotation. The stock throttle looks to be open full at just under 70 degrees of rotation, so it's a little quicker than stock. I could also change it out for the 35mm cam to make it a slightly slower throttle than stock, but it doesn't look like it would make a huge difference.
 

Thunderace

BIG JIM
Control Rider
You've got to get on the track with this bike and ride it first. No amount of riding it around the neighborhood is going to simulate the track. My suggestion is to reevaluate these concerns after your first day. Not the first session, but the first day. If you go out slow and build up your confidence, there is no reason you should have any problems learning the habits of the new bike. Towards the end of the first day, when you've got a bunch of laps under your belt, take a look at these three questions and see if they really affect your riding.

Just so you know, I've been on 1000's since day one and I have the Motion Pro throttle on my CR bike. I have the largest cam in there for the shortest throw. The off/on throttle is something I don't even think about because I've ridden it for so long. You are either going to love the power or you are going to hate the effort it takes to ride it. Either way, it will be comparable to the FZ1 you had. The riding position will be better and the bike will have more top end grunt. I think you will be fine as long as the bike is sound.
 

D-Zum

My 13 year old is faster than your President
My two cents....since I know you're not far from me in MD (Pasadena). If you haven't already set your suspension baseline up, do that.

Maybe take it to MRP for a refresh if the shock/forks need refreshing and maybe ask Kenny to help you set the baseline sag, etc. He's pretty
good with suspension services.

Need new tires on that thing? Get yourself your current preferred slicks....I can mount and balance them if you need. OR DOT's if that is your
preference. No biggie.

And I agree with everything Jim said. You gotta go out and ride the bike first to really get a feel for it. Start your day nice and easy and pick up the
pace as you become more confident in your new toy.

Do you have warmers?
 

tad158

Astronomer not Astrologer
I have an 09...basically the same as yours....flash it! Its the only to solve the throttle response smoothness issue.

The forks are super easy to refresh, and re-spring. He a linear spring for your weight, huge improvement over the stock progressive soft springs.

The OEM rear shock is not very good. But it can be resprung to your weight. I got a good deal on a racetech rear, which mage a huge difference on drive out of the corner.

Quick shifter is a nice bit, and you can get it built into the ECU with the flash.

The R1 forum is handy for help, lots of R1 specific knowledge there

Check my build thread on the R1 forum for more info on the above.


On the bp, it's easier at speed, but your core muscles and your legs pursuing into the pegs are what keep the weight off your hands. It will be different from the fz...Its just different, don't make one like the other....
 

tad158

Astronomer not Astrologer
My two cents....since I know you're not far from me in MD (Pasadena). If you haven't already set your suspension baseline up, do that.

Maybe take it to MRP for a refresh if the shock/forks need refreshing and maybe ask Kenny to help you set the baseline sag, etc. He's pretty
good with suspension services.

Need new tires on that thing? Get yourself your current preferred slicks....I can mount and balance them if you need. OR DOT's if that is your
preference. No biggie.

And I agree with everything Jim said. You gotta go out and ride the bike first to really get a feel for it. Start your day nice and easy and pick up the
pace as you become more confident in your new toy.

Do you have warmers?
Darren, what do you think of mrp? I need to get my race tech rear shock rebuilt...and they are a race tech service provider.
 

mdhokie

Member
Yeah, I know the biggest thing will just be practice. I'm hoping it won't take all year just to get back to where I was on the other bike.

My two cents....since I know you're not far from me in MD (Pasadena). If you haven't already set your suspension baseline up, do that.

Maybe take it to MRP for a refresh if the shock/forks need refreshing and maybe ask Kenny to help you set the baseline sag, etc. He's pretty
good with suspension services.
I'm planning on letting the trackside guy at NJMP do my initial setup after my first session. It's got full Ohlins, front and back. I'm not sure how worn they are; I'll let the guy tell me if so. BTW it does have a quick shift too. Really it has all the race goodies, which was why I couldn't pass it up for the price I got...

Need new tires on that thing? Get yourself your current preferred slicks....I can mount and balance them if you need. OR DOT's if that is your
preference. No biggie.
I am planning on running my Dunlop Q3 from the FZ1 the first day out, since I'll be adjusting and I'm not sure of my ability to keep heat in the slicks. I have a whole pile of used slicks and tire warmers, but I want to get my pace up to where I can keep them hot before using them.
 

tad158

Astronomer not Astrologer
The q3 is a great choice, you can ruin at/near the pointy end of intermediate no problem with them. One lap and they are warm.
 

tad158

Astronomer not Astrologer
Not all flashes are alike, though. Some will just remove the OEM restrictions, other will make many changes to the throttle, timing, fuel and accelerator pump maps to remove the abrupness of the throttle input. Timing and throttle maps are the biggest offenders when it comes to engine braking. They way I have tuned my bike inside the ECU image, it has almost no engine breaking left, and it is super smooth.

If you want to swap ECUs some time as a test let me know.
 

buzz-06

Member
Idk what group you're in or what your skill level is...but my tips for riding that bike are

Put some gas in it
Go ride it
Have fun...

You'll figure it out as you go :like:
 

mdhokie

Member
Idk what group you're in or what your skill level is...but my tips for riding that bike are

Put some gas in it
Go ride it
Have fun...

You'll figure it out as you go :like:

I plan to do all the above! Just wondering if anybody had any specific tips after moving from a upright/less aggressive bike to a liter race bike. I'm sure I can make it around the circuit if I just don't push it too hard, but wondering about any specific riding style changes that might be needed. I have been told, for instance, that the 1000cc racers will often sacrifice corner speed in order to get a good drive out of the corner to take advantage of the added acceleration. I feel a little less in control of my ability to shift body weight with the stretched-out riding position, and I'm pretty sure my neck is going to be killing me from having to crank my head around farther, but hopefully I will get used to it.
 

buzz-06

Member
Riding position and fundamentals are the same, the key to riding a liter bike is smooth smooth smooth. Abrupt inputs get abrupt responses, if you whack the throttle it won't be good. As far as your corner speed comment, don't even worry about that stuff, you're referring to the "point and shoot" method which I can tell you is more of a riding style than it is a bike specific requirement. I've turned my fair share of sub 1:19 laps around summit on a 1000 and never gave up any corner speed, infact my corner speed increased as the laptimes dropped.

So let's recap, maintain your standard and well known riding fundamentals, pour some gas in the bike and have some fun. Whatever you do, do not let the speed of the motorcycle ruin your basic fundamentals. I raced against a guy in 2014 that had Marquez style body position, it was pretty much perfect. He jumped on a much faster bike and now rides like troy Baylis and crashes his brains out because he let the speed dictate how he rode rather than learn how to maintain his good fundamentals on a faster machine.
 
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