To bump or not to bump...

Hawaiijames

New Member
The grapevine...

I had a few minutes this morning between patients and wanted to ask some "A" riders opinions on the lap times quoted from the A group. I was surprised to see so many people go off topic and misread what I posted. I didn't ask for a bump, I asked for help to see if I was ready to move up. I currently ride in the blue group with TPM and I use to think the rivalry between TPM and NESBA riders was rediculous. I feel that in order to get bumped in NESBA you need to be seen at different events and make yourself known, it is very difficult to get the honor of riding in A. To the butt smoocher who said Dave wouldn't stuff someone, my GoPro shows him stand up 2 riders going into turn 1. Also a few other up the inside passes. Video doesn't lie. Sorry Dave, not dissing you just calling it like the HD vid shows. I try very hard to be consistent and have been told by many that I am very smooth and safe. I rode with the AMA riders 3 weeks ago and Paul Allison hit my front tire while cutting across my line in the decreasing radius. Because he hit me does that mean he should not be out there with the blue guys. It's
all part of riding and no I don't want to race as someone said maybe I should do. I have a business to run and a wife to take care of and I know other people do too and that is why I don't pass dirty. I have heard it all before, wait and watch and then back off and get a better drive and blow by the guy. Whoever came up with that guy wasn't chasing a guy who can't ride quickly and bought a 1000 to make up for his lack of riding skill. Try and pull a liter bike down the front straight. I am not starting crap after the fact, just want to know what the real reasons were for not getting an honest answer. I know he can ride my doors off but how can I progress when there are quite a few poor riders in I that are unsafe, unpredictable and cry to the CR's when they get their ego crushed by a legit pass. Working your way through traffic like it doesn't exist isn't always possible. To the guy who posted that, please show me how to freely pass people at will, I would be greatly indebted. Some of you guys who just chime in because you have a login and password are clowns and just like to hear yourselves talk. I wanted an answer about lap times and I got a few good responses but no one gave me an answer to what is the cutoff for laptimes to get into the A group. I truly don't think a time exists but Dave said I was really close as he smirked and kept saying you're really close. How is it just catching him through traffic is a testament to my riding ability. I watched the A group this weekend and there were some slow guys running 1:40-1:45, jamming on their front brakes and getting all out of shape without any other rider in sight. I saw guys ride off in the dirt because they couldn't turn quick enough to avoid the rider in front of them. That wasn't a shining example of what I would expect from the A group. So, for now if anyone wants to try and analyze why I didn't get bumped, I don't care for your opinion.
Funny, no one had a response to the pace the CR's can ride. I would love to see any CR
turn a 1:24 at T-Bolt. Better yet, I will give any CR $1oo if they can. No disrespect to the CR's just don't think they have it in them.
Peace out my next patient is here.
 

LOrtega

Control Rider
I dont know your situation exactly not sure where you were timing the guys in A from,
but from everyone I talked to the slowest pace in A seemed to be 1 guy who showed me his laptimer and was running 1:36: 1:37... the reason I know that is because he asked for a tow to scrub a little rust off and look at different lines he could use to work through some issues he had...

With that said his laptimes were not what made him A in my book his judegment was excellent, he recognized when he was being closed in on held great lines was beyond predicable and slide right back in line when he was passed.... He is exactly the kind of person I personally want to ride with...
Laptimes or no laptimes he was A group in my eyes 100%

On the Faster end of the spectrum I know at least 4 guys running 28's and yes there was 1 person out there who chined in low 27's and a few high 26's...This guy was just moving and was working thru traffic like he was out there alone.... again never broke stride when he passed someone never deviated drastically from his line just passed people like they were standing still....

As for laptimes I cant speak for everyone but when most of us eval people for a bump we dont give the laptimer a big look we start to push the pace and we see how the rider reacts to the faster and faster pace if the rider begins to make poor decisons breaking passing rules running wide and just so focused on keeping up that all good judgement goes out the window in my eyes that guy is not ready to go to A.....

I cant speak for Dave but I know that during an eval I will usually let a guy go by me and then pass him close at some point, to see how he reacts to getting passed mid turn , under breaking, on the outside, ETC... not defending Dave just telling you what I am many other CR's do....

When a rider gets bumped to A we want to make sure they are truely ready and that is just what it is ....
Its not by who you know, its 100% what you know.... Less looking at the laptimer and more going out and riding

My 2 cent
 

Mikey75702

Member
Hawaiijames;152114 wrote: I had a few minutes this morning between patients and wanted to ask some "A" riders opinions on the lap times quoted from the A group. I was surprised to see so many people go off topic and misread what I posted. I didn't ask for a bump, I asked for help to see if I was ready to move up. I currently ride in the blue group with TPM and I use to think the rivalry between TPM and NESBA riders was rediculous. I feel that in order to get bumped in NESBA you need to be seen at different events and make yourself known, it is very difficult to get the honor of riding in A. To the butt smoocher who said Dave wouldn't stuff someone, my GoPro shows him stand up 2 riders going into turn 1. Also a few other up the inside passes. Video doesn't lie. Sorry Dave, not dissing you just calling it like the HD vid shows. I try very hard to be consistent and have been told by many that I am very smooth and safe. I rode with the AMA riders 3 weeks ago and Paul Allison hit my front tire while cutting across my line in the decreasing radius. Because he hit me does that mean he should not be out there with the blue guys. It's
all part of riding and no I don't want to race as someone said maybe I should do. I have a business to run and a wife to take care of and I know other people do too and that is why I don't pass dirty. I have heard it all before, wait and watch and then back off and get a better drive and blow by the guy. Whoever came up with that guy wasn't chasing a guy who can't ride quickly and bought a 1000 to make up for his lack of riding skill. Try and pull a liter bike down the front straight. I am not starting crap after the fact, just want to know what the real reasons were for not getting an honest answer. I know he can ride my doors off but how can I progress when there are quite a few poor riders in I that are unsafe, unpredictable and cry to the CR's when they get their ego crushed by a legit pass. Working your way through traffic like it doesn't exist isn't always possible. To the guy who posted that, please show me how to freely pass people at will, I would be greatly indebted. Some of you guys who just chime in because you have a login and password are clowns and just like to hear yourselves talk. I wanted an answer about lap times and I got a few good responses but no one gave me an answer to what is the cutoff for laptimes to get into the A group. I truly don't think a time exists but Dave said I was really close as he smirked and kept saying you're really close. How is it just catching him through traffic is a testament to my riding ability. I watched the A group this weekend and there were some slow guys running 1:40-1:45, jamming on their front brakes and getting all out of shape without any other rider in sight. I saw guys ride off in the dirt because they couldn't turn quick enough to avoid the rider in front of them. That wasn't a shining example of what I would expect from the A group. So, for now if anyone wants to try and analyze why I didn't get bumped, I don't care for your opinion.
Funny, no one had a response to the pace the CR's can ride. I would love to see any CR
turn a 1:24 at T-Bolt. Better yet, I will give any CR $1oo if they can. No disrespect to the CR's just don't think they have it in them.
Peace out my next patient is here.
ok, Being a "B" guy, I will address what I can of this.

1) I am on a 98 TL100R, it dyno'd at 117 hp to the wheel 2 weeks before T-bolt. I did not hot pit once to pass a guy on a liter bike. If I didn't get a good enough drive to pass them down the front straight, I just ran the entrance to the chicane 5 or so mph slower and drove out way harder, and took them up wheelie hill.


2) Considering I was consistenly running 1.43 to 1.45 in B group traffic and Lou and Chris were able to pass me at will, while looking back at me, I would imagine the 1.2??? isnt out of the question.
 

dbakerpa

Member
gvstone;152041 wrote: I'm a newbie so take this with a grain of salt if you wish....

I've learned in three track days that the most sure way of moving up is to become an asset to the sessions you ride and not a hinderance. If you are having trouble with anybody in your group then you most likely (in my humble opinion) have not been there long enough. Slower riders are part of it, there will always be slower riders. They should be used to learn from and with. When you get to where you are smooth enough and fast enough to not notice all the slower riders as anything other than other bikes then you are getting close to moving to a faster group.

Again just my view, your mileage may vary!!

Greg :)
Thats the kind of talk that will get you that pebble grasshopper.
 

ontheR6

New Member
Hawaiijames;152114 wrote: I feel that in order to get bumped in NESBA you need to be seen at different events and make yourself known, it is very difficult to get the honor of riding in A. To the butt smoocher who said Dave wouldn't stuff someone, my GoPro shows him stand up 2 riders going into turn
I have to completely disagree with you James, i got bumped by 2 CRs that i didn't even know were following me till after the session when the CR (Barry) approached me followed by the bump from CR James, i didn't know them and they certainly didn't know me, i had only done a total of apx 5-6 days with nesba between last season and this one at that time. the beauty of this sport is that in leathers and under the helmet we r all the same, what separates us by group is strictly our riding ability, nothing else.

James, Buddy - we r having a fun (productive) discussion no need to become aggressive and call people names, we r united by our passion for this sport - lets enjoy it together!
u urself criticized the rider u passed for his aggressive approach.

what happens on the track should stay on the track IMO.......
 

shaugdog

New Member
Hawaiijames, you are coming off like a dick. You're posting on a public forum, why do you think you'll only get the responses you want? If you ride on the track like you talk on this forum, I wouldn't want to be anywhere around you and can understand why you said someone wanted to fight you.
 

beevan217

Member
Hawaiijames;152114 wrote: I had a few minutes this morning between patients and wanted to ask some "A" riders opinions on the lap times quoted from the A group. I was surprised to see so many people go off topic and misread what I posted. I didn't ask for a bump, I asked for help to see if I was ready to move up. I currently ride in the blue group with TPM and I use to think the rivalry between TPM and NESBA riders was rediculous. I feel that in order to get bumped in NESBA you need to be seen at different events and make yourself known, it is very difficult to get the honor of riding in A. To the butt smoocher who said Dave wouldn't stuff someone, my GoPro shows him stand up 2 riders going into turn 1. Also a few other up the inside passes. Video doesn't lie. Sorry Dave, not dissing you just calling it like the HD vid shows. I try very hard to be consistent and have been told by many that I am very smooth and safe. I rode with the AMA riders 3 weeks ago and Paul Allison hit my front tire while cutting across my line in the decreasing radius. Because he hit me does that mean he should not be out there with the blue guys. It's
all part of riding and no I don't want to race as someone said maybe I should do. I have a business to run and a wife to take care of and I know other people do too and that is why I don't pass dirty. I have heard it all before, wait and watch and then back off and get a better drive and blow by the guy. Whoever came up with that guy wasn't chasing a guy who can't ride quickly and bought a 1000 to make up for his lack of riding skill. Try and pull a liter bike down the front straight. I am not starting crap after the fact, just want to know what the real reasons were for not getting an honest answer. I know he can ride my doors off but how can I progress when there are quite a few poor riders in I that are unsafe, unpredictable and cry to the CR's when they get their ego crushed by a legit pass. Working your way through traffic like it doesn't exist isn't always possible. To the guy who posted that, please show me how to freely pass people at will, I would be greatly indebted. Some of you guys who just chime in because you have a login and password are clowns and just like to hear yourselves talk. I wanted an answer about lap times and I got a few good responses but no one gave me an answer to what is the cutoff for laptimes to get into the A group. I truly don't think a time exists but Dave said I was really close as he smirked and kept saying you're really close. How is it just catching him through traffic is a testament to my riding ability. I watched the A group this weekend and there were some slow guys running 1:40-1:45, jamming on their front brakes and getting all out of shape without any other rider in sight. I saw guys ride off in the dirt because they couldn't turn quick enough to avoid the rider in front of them. That wasn't a shining example of what I would expect from the A group. So, for now if anyone wants to try and analyze why I didn't get bumped, I don't care for your opinion.
Funny, no one had a response to the pace the CR's can ride. I would love to see any CR
turn a 1:24 at T-Bolt. Better yet, I will give any CR $1oo if they can. No disrespect to the CR's just don't think they have it in them.
Peace out my next patient is here.
You asked your question (lap times) & it was answered. You didn't like the answer you received but, it was answered nonetheless. As far as not wanting anyone's opinion, you paid full price for EVERYONE on this forum that read this post to comment with their opinion. Don't want an opinion, don't post. That simple. I'll refrain from commenting on the rest of this post, don't want to offend anyone. Plain & simple HJ...... you didn't get the bump because they didn't give it to you. LOL How's that for an answer? You sound EXACTLY like those characters in the extranormal vids man. Almost to the point where this seems like a joke post or something.

I hope you post the videos you have though, could be interesting..... :popcorn:
 

beevan217

Member
#9
03-11-2010, 12:54 PM
Hawaiijames
Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hellertown, PA
iTrader: (0)
Posts: 32
Long time...
Het Pascal, Tina and I miss you. You helped me a ton at Summit and Beaver. Now I'm riding advanced and wish we could ride together again.
Talk at ya
James

LOOK WHAT I FOUND!!!! WTF?? :wow::wow::wow::wow:
 

slowpoke

New Member
OK - now I remember who you are from our discussion on Saturday.

Let's clarify a few things:

1-Dave rides a literbike not a 600 so perhaps you have the wrong CR or you are just upset and are getting many of your numbers jumbled.

2-I came over to your pit to talk about the numerous complaints we had about your inside passing, and I sincerely tried to be as polite as possible while communicating the need to protect everyone's safety. I distinctly remember having to explain the definition of an inside pass b/c you were not clear on it.
In your first post, you talk about guys running a few feet wide in T1 and you passing them which I told you was an inside pass. My suggestion to you was to not try passes between 1-2 b/c there are much safer and easier places to pass. I recall offering you advice on my favorite places to pass. I did NOT go out on track with you since I was not on the schedule to CR on Saturday and only did a few sessions as a CR to help out.

3-Laptimes are probably the smallest part of the bump evaluation

4-You asked if anyone can work thru 'I' traffic -- I can work through traffic in the intermediate group effortlessly and maintain an 'A' pace w/out breaking a single rule so I would be happy to help you learn that critical skill. You also asked how that's a measure of your ability - It's one of the major indicators of a rider's ability to get bumped. It demonstrates skill, line selection, and overall judgement on track. It also shows that a rider has little left to learn from their peers in 'I' group b/c every pass becomes almost too easy.

5-Our fastest A rider from this weekend has a best lap of 25 and can run consistent 26s. A group this weekend seem to average about 33s and ranged to the high 30s.


"ontheR6" is absolutely right - i don't care who anybody is, what they do for a living, how much money they do or don't have. If they can ride at an 'A' level, I bump them every single time w/out hesitation. Nothing makes CRs happier than bumping people and watching them improve.

Finally, I'm the butt smoocher that said Dave doesn't make inside passes in "I" group and would not create" major stuffage" so I'm calling BS - unless Dave bought a 600 on Saturday during lunch.
 

Kegger

New Member
Interesting thread.

All this good info about consistent good judgment, and patience and clean passing, and a couple of people have touched on...........

attitude. Its a deal breaker. Take a humble pill, ride your ride and dont endanger anyone else. The bump and the pace will come. Regardless of the track organization, all my bumps have been when I wasnt looking for it. You will feel better about the bump too. You know in your heart its earned when you dont ask. Try it - it works!:D
 

Myers

Control Rider
really?

James –
My 2 cents.

You sir are misguided…
Your original post rants about the people that keep me safe and able to go home to my family with a bike each time & in one piece. Your follow up post says you ask a simple question in your original post.. NO you ask a question and then bash those who monitor our safety each day.
I have a lap timer… to monitor my lap times when I make line changes, shift point changes & brake mark changes… NOT to prove to myself that I GO FAST. Passing on the outside at T-bolt….1, 3c, 4, 5, 6, 9 are good…pick one...there are many.
There is a reason.. amongst many that you did not get an A bump.. and honestly Im thankful for all of them. I ride to enjoy the moment, the experience.. knowing there are people like you on the track with me scares me.. nothing is your “responsibility” in your mind.
As far as the CRs that you mention in your original post. I know some of them. I respect their advice, decisions and their character is amongst the highest. Ask youself… what does a VOLUNTEER have to gain from CRing and riding with us regulars..??? They gain appreciation and thanks when we give it.. your original post diminishes all of that. CRs get paid NOTHING to be out there and help all of us. They pay their own fuel bill, tire bill and mechanical bill.. they pay it to watch us progress and enjoy the hobby they have grown to love as well… I have heard of CRs burning as much as 30 gallons of fuel during a weekend CRing….HELPING us…. And you trash that with your assumptions of just what they were doing.
Did you see the I group CR captain? Did you approach any of the folks you mention in your original post.. if you did..did you get an answer you didn’t like and that is why you posted up on the boards today like this?
I apologize for dramatizing this thread as I am usually very quiet but….. I could not let the bash go un answered. You bash some very good people.. be it intentional or not.. you did it and it was wrong. Those VOLUNTEERS do what they do to help each of us… that’s it. If you were almost in a confrontation with another rider over your riding.. a CR had to talk to you about certain techniques you were using maybe you need to look in the mirror and realize the common denominator.
I run a 1:35 or so on T-Bolt and am as of Saturday in A group.. I have nothing to loose or gain from this post but my safety and to straighten out the facts, especially about the CRs that you lack.
Len
 

Hawaiijames

New Member
Thanks LOrtega

This is getting blown way out of proportion. Thank you for your response and by the way I only break out the lap timer when I feel like I'm riding smoothly not when I'm pushing harder as those sessions are usually the slowest. Anyone who rides with me will tell you that I make good decisions and am a smooth, safe rider. I am not upset at all about not getting bumped, just wanted a legit reason. Name calling is inappropriate but when some guy wants to fight, I think that guy deserves a verbal wedgie. I just wanted to stir the pot a little and see who had an answer. Guess there are a lot of unemployed peole out there who have nothing better than to thrash someone on a forum. Who cares if it's public, I didn't thrown anyone under the bus. I just like to ride. As for the other smart guy who found an old post, see you at TPM's next trackday in the BLUE group, as that's my group smartguy. Been there for 2 years :)~
 

Joe Vital

Member
James,
It is likely that will be happier riding with TPM. Their groups are structured in such a way that allows riders such as yourself to ride 'flat out.'
 

Macon663

New Member
Random question...who is the nesba dude doing 25's and 26's on thunderbolt? Sternsi?

You'll get to A hawaii...just keep trying to improve and work on the things that make you the most uncomfortable at the track. Get on the gas a little earlier, the brakes a little later, be smooth, use the WHOLE track, and most importantly, have fun.

A pace is important, but being a consistent, smooth rider is equally if not more important. I haven't ridden w/ Nesba in some time now, but I'd imagine that anything under a mid to low 30 (like under a 34/35) is A pace depending on riding skill.
 
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