What are respectable times by group for the different tracks?

What are solid times for B, I and A for the various tracks and configurations?

VIR north, south, patriot, Summit main, Jefferson, Thunderbolt etc.
 

Mikey75702

Member
What air temp? What track temp? What weather?? It's all relative. There probably isn't a set guideline for each.. more of a by feel based on the group as a whole.
 

erick1670

Member
I was at VIR North this last saturday and my first lap in my first session was 2minutes + :eek: , hey I have never being there..... but by my 3th or 4th session I was doing 1:48`s still way slow, but I could tell where I could gain time, that will be for the next time :D

at T-bolt my best was 1:36 last year... this year 1:38-39`s, but I take baby steps :dunno:

I am working on getting to mid pack still
 

erick1670

Member
gkotlin;195270 wrote: Lap times don't mean a thing if your not racing...... Not a good benchmark for track days.
:agree:

I only look after my day is over, so that way I dont pressure my self and just focus on being smooth and consistent
 

Dave561

Control Rider
Director
Kind of a subjective question. Typically, I would consider track record +10 to be a decent A time. But I've seen riders approach that and I'm scared to get within 20ft of them because they are so erratic and I've seen slower riders that I'd be comfortable riding beside them the whole way around the track. Times are a good indication of skill only if you can maintain a consistent lap time, coupled with a comfort level while riding and of course being able to hit the important marks such as apexes and corner exits.
 

kubricky

Control Rider
Director
This is one of those funny questions and I hear all the time how lap times don't matter AND I hear riders say all the time that they realize that but they still ask the question. Mainly racers say laptimes don't matter unless you are racing and mainly the guys that thing they are going to come to the track and blow by everyone ask about laptimes. Yes, that is a generalization but it is based on what I have seen.

I would offer this: It is real tough to see an improvement unless you have something to compare it to. I understand this, but the basic skills and some understanding of the track, your motorcycle, and your level of experience have to be in place before you start looking for a lap time or very bad thigns will happen -- yes, that is an absolute. That said, times are a poor BENCHMARK if you aren't racing, but they can be an excellent way to see how you are improving if used properly and with a bit of respect and intelligence.

I see all the time the guys who think they are "off the bike" or "on the gas" or they "feel faster" or they "went through that turn faster", that is great and ultimately that is why we are here, to have fun and FEEL good. However if you need the qualification, seeing your laptimes improve can be that OBJECTIVE way to see an improvement.

What most people do is go out and ride like their ass is actually on fire to get a x:xx:xx, that isn't improving. Period. Improving is being able to go faster and be comfortable while those riding with you are comfortable.

Using a laptimer can help this as long as you are not pushing yourself to make the time.

Just my opinion. I often hear this arguement and I think there is a fine line between only racers sould be concerned with lap times and every guy just starting out getting a 1000.00 lapt timer on his bike and tossing it into turn one in the second session because "he can go faster".

I can't define that line, not because I came to the party without a solution but because it is different for everyone and if you use your head, go out for each session with a plan, and have a notebook to record what worked and what didn't (thanks Buck, Dutch, and a few others for this suggestion a few years a go -- I still keep a notebook, I am on my third composition notebook). You will find as you WRITE down what you did or felt you will get better at it. Drew Harbuck is one of the best guys at this, my like giving actionable feedback to riders while riding as a CR he is able to very accurately describe what the bike is doing.

Again, just some thoughts, flame away...
 

Mikey75702

Member
Good thoughts kubricky.... I can say that the lap timer has helped me, as it showed me when I was focusing on going faster I would slow down. If i remain calm and comfortable I go A LOT faster. But like you said, comparing lap times to others doesn't seem like a great idea. And as i posted earlier, the laptimes I run and where i am in the group also changes on weather. Running 1:43's at thunderbolt in 40 deg weather was enough to get me bumped and comfortable in the I group. But I suspect, if I run 1:40's next Friday, I will be getting blasted (unless its r*****ing). So if you are going to compare times, compare them to yourself.
 

ZeroBahamutxRR

New Member
kubricky;195369 wrote: times are a poor BENCHMARK if you aren't racing, but they can be an excellent way to see how you are improving if used properly and with a bit of respect and intelligence.
That is a great way to put it. This past monday (at lightning) I decided to get a lap timer to see what my times were so I'll put my input in on this subject. First thing I would say is that having a timer to see lap times is not a bad idea. It's not a bad idea if you have a level head about what you are trying to do with the timer. If your just going out trying to hammer it to get better lap times, most likely it will not work out. Knowing what you are doing while riding or in the pits to get better (or worse) lap times is key. The second part is being consistant. My best time, upper I group with a stock 08 600rr, was a 1.16.53. The issue was that that same session my worst time was about 1.27.00. I might have gone fastest in the session but my consistancy was crap. Not to mention that but I felt most out of control during that session. If you can go fast out of control then you can do it in control and be as fast or faster. By the end of the day (esspecially my last session) my lap times were between 1.17.04-1.17.89 for the entire session. I might not have reached that 1.16.53 but I worked on consistancy and being comfortable doing it.

Being consistant is important. Using the timer as a teaching tool is what you want to use it for. If your working with a CR to improve body position, line work, corner speed, or what ever, you will see it reflecting in your lap times. I was down at jefferson and ran into a guy on a 1000rr. All he cared about were lap times. "I'm doing low 58's..low 58's" (not sure what is a good lap time there but ne way). He was fast but way out of control. Everytime he came into turn 1 his line was different. Sometimes chirping the back tire and running wide or dropping in way early and exiting wide. At the end of the day I was running just as fast as him. He would walk away on the front straight but I would reel him back in through the turns. He was never on the same line every lap. He also wanted no help from the CR's.

Back to the lap times subject. The CR's know the tracks better than the rest, that's why they are there. They WILL help you go faster and the timer will show that. When the field is slim and they put A and I guys together it can be used as a great teaching tool. The A guys wiz by where you are slower and this shows you can do certain things that you are not normally doing. Just like a timer can help you know where you weak points are and where you can inprove if you use it that way. Going out chasing lap times without knowlege of what you are inproving on is just pointless. Also put the timer somewhere were you will not be able to see it until the end of your session. Mine is the XT racing two piece with the cable. The reciever is on the tail and the timer box is under my seat. Good luck and use your head.
 
My goal is not to ride like that bat out of H*** however I have heard again and again that as you improve lap times will (likely) decrease. Smoothness is the key which means which means proper entry and exit of corners. There are bikes that consistently blast past me on the straights but I catch them and often pass once the curves begin - pass that is where legal for B.

I can't ask a CR to stay in my back pocket each session nor have I made the $$$$ commitment for school. Am I even worthy or ready for riding school? Rhetorical question.

I just thought if I knew what a reasonable time should be for my group it would be a another tool in my self evaluation of "how I'm doing". Members have posted how lap timers have helped by showing them how they are doing not only overall but in each section of the track. Not sure if I am ready for such technology.

Lap times are a tool for me. Nothing more. I'm not cruising for bragging rights.

However as "unimportant" as lap times may/should be it's amazing how often it is the subject of any given paddock conversation.

Now back to my question.

VIR north? South? For you Mikey75702 lets say 85°F and 75% humidity. Light breeze from south west with modest cloud cover.
 

Mikey75702

Member
Lol on the description of the weather :D. Haven't ridden VIR.. but at summit main last year in the summer temps, I was upper half of the B group running consistent 1:40's. (that might be slow or fast for this year as the riders have most likely improved) at njmp thunderbolt, I was running 1:43's-1:46's still upper half.
 
I start out up front but by time my tires warm and am settled in I have caught up with the riders released last. Then it's traffic negotiation. I am timing myself based on gopro video just to get a rough number.

Glad you liked the weather report.

Reg
 

PJZOCC624

New Member
Upper 1:30s for T'Bolt in "I" is pretty solid. I think my best time there is a 1:36 last year.

My little tidbit about lap times: I use them also as a tool to help me "see" what I'm doing on the track. I want to know I'm being consistent. I want to see what happens when I take a different line through a specific turn. I want to see how well I'm moving through and around traffic. The only hard comparison we have sometimes is that little green box on our triple or tail section. Some of us need that quantitative comparison to justify the changes we make on the track.

Yes, we talk about lap times in the paddock alot. But it's usually a quick conversation. Like, "What'd ya run that session? 1:06?? NICE!". End of convo.

That said, I have been chasing lap times more lately, especially at the end of the season. This is my own competition in my head, and I've gotten to a place in my riding where I'm "stuck". So I try to change little things to see if I can drop a few tenths here or there. I started hearing "You're doing great... just go faster!" more than a couple times. I think that's when I started chasing the tenths. :banghead:
 
erick1670;195240 wrote: I was at VIR North this last saturday and my first lap in my first session was 2minutes + :eek: , hey I have never being there..... but by my 3th or 4th session I was doing 1:48`s still way slow, but I could tell where I could gain time that will be for the next time :D . . .I take baby steps :dunno:

I am working on getting to mid pack still
I also did VIR Saturday and Sunday. I hear you regarding the baby steps.
 

Spitz

New Member
Get one and use it. Its just another tool. Its nice to see what your times are and what you do improves or hurts you. I bought one for my second trackday and im glad I did.
 

windblown

New Member
I agree that a lap timer can be a useful tool, especially if you're willing to use it as such. One thing I noticed back when I ran one was that that sessions where I was hitting my marks as a first priority and speed as the second priority were generally faster than sessions where I pushed too hard and started missing my marks. Pushing the edge feels faster but once you start to get sloppy the laptimer will give you a quick reality check. I haven't run a laptimer since my first foray into track days which stopped in 2006 and only picked back up recently. Here's what I recall...

VIR north. Only ran this a few times. Once, maybe twice in I group. 1:48's-1:51's perhaps on a good day? Might have been slower, don't recall.

Summit Point Main - Ran 1:29's pretty consistantly with an occasional dip into the 1:28's before the major re-pave they did a few years ago. That was a mid-pack or so I pace at the time. It's a faster track now.

Summit Jefferson - Ran 59's pretty constantly. Again that was perhaps a mid-pack I pace.

BeaverRun - I think I was running 1:12's or a bit better avg. I do recall I ran a couple of hot lap 1:10's. Again, pretty much avg for I group.


daddyfriedrich;197111 wrote: So your lap times are what portion of the assessment for a bump from one group to another?
Watching laptimes to guage how close to a bump you are is a bit of a catch 22 for some folks. If your chasing laptimes for the bump then unless you are a very disaplined person chances are good it will push you to doing things that are counter productive to getting bumped, like pushing to hard and losing consistancy, making an iffy pass near the end of a hot lap that you think may get you the magical number you're looking for, etc.

Yes, you have to be able to run a consistant laptime that falls within a range that the CR feels is acceptable for the next level but as they say there are a host of other factors as well. Are you a one track wonder? Can you go to another track and perform at an acceptable level for the next level group? Are you consistant, Are you safe?

Most CR's aren't gonna give you a black and white figure for a laptime to get into a given group because if they did every time someone managed to hit the bottom edge of that range on a hot lap they would be screaming for their bump regardless of all the other factors. It would just lead to a pissing contest.
 
Thanks for the info.

For me lap timers, knowing track times and such are all parts and pieces of the track day tool box. I just want to be aware of the times. I don't plan on chasing them.

When I watch the pros I'm amazed not at their speeds but at how they glide around the track. Fluid.

I'll ask a CR to watch me so I can learn what to do and what is not working.

As for being bumped I am not looking for the clock to tell me but for a tap on the shoulder. It's sort of funny. Althought I'm far from such the thought of being bumped is something I look forward to and fear at the same time. Comprende?
 

snikwad

New Member
all i know is i want a XT racing GPX pro, cause that mofo can break it down into sections and if setup right, can give, g force, throttle %, gear, position(line) on track for true proper analysis to see EXACTLY where time is being lost or gained.

Now when i get that, if i can compare my "fast" lap to a A group guy or a CR's on the same day. Then analysis of what youre doing out there wont get any better. UNLESS all that is combined with couple cameras.

So yeah, it can def be used as a tool and a good tool, especially to gauge that ever important consistency, since sometimes when we "feel" faster we're not actually faster.
 
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