back protector vs air bag system

[corey4]

i should probably get a back protector or air bag system. any reason to go with one over the other? the air bag seems to promise more protection.

i am looking at the alpinestars nucleon kr3 back protector or the tech-air 5. cost is not a deciding factor between these 2. i have the alpinestars fusion suit if that matters. or is there something else i should be looking at?

also, i am in novice and am not pushing the limits like i did 20 years ago trying to get moved up. i took 15 years off due to work, family and injuries.

thank you.

 

[MK3Brent]

Both if possible based on design. I use an external air bag system and a internal to suit back protector.

 

[rpm894]

Personally, I would never ride without a back protector. And it doesn't matter if you are pushing it or not when the person that is pushing it decides to hit you, which is always a possibility and not unheard of.

I've been reading about the Alpinestars airbags recently and just got the Tech-Air Race. It seems like all the Tech-Air systems have adequate back protectors built in plus offer additional protection for chest and shoulders/collar bone with the airbag. The Tech-Air 5 is similar to the Race; the big difference being that the Race zips into the suit, whereas the 5 is more universal. It doesn't look like the Fusion suit is Race compatible (it will have 3 LED lights on the arm if so).

The Tech-Air 10 is the way to go if you want the most protection. I was considering it, but it looks too hot and inconvenient since it is built into a one-piece undersuit.

 

[Laszlo]

Ditto what others said about both back protector and airbag. They’re two separate systems; BP is against hard crashes to a specific area (hard crash literally meaning hitting hard surface fast), and AB great assists with (but does not offer identical type of protection against hard crashes, which is why both are highly recommended by AB manufacturers as well, and also b/c most AB don’t have at least mid and upper back hard protection built in I think) but protects also from neck movement which leads to a lot of neck/spine injuries, as well as offering protection to the ribs (unless you get back protector with rib/side protection).

My preference is to for now use an external AB for two reasons: still unsure about the accuracy of electronic (versus mechanical…meaning attached to bike) ABs; but that’s just my preference b/c software I think at this stage is just as good; I’m just not going to upgrade yet since my ABs are about two years old. I have one for track, Helite GP that has some external pads, and one for street, HitAir. I like these two because I can just replace the CO2 if it goes off. The HitAir protects my tail bone; the Helite GP is like a vest and does not; both protect the neck from movement which is key, and both inflate there FIRST so the head is protected from flopping around which no back protector will offer. I have a neck protector from Leatt for off-road that serves a very similar purpose and don’t wear airbag off-road b/c I go relatively slow and fall off often enough from my big ass Africa Twin that I would get a lot of false-inflations (off-road I wear padded shorts and a padded motox top).Once slid about 20’ on my chest after low siding and falling off odd on a gravel road and was fine.

Though the inside the jacket/racesuit ones are good too IMO, for me I don’t want that beneath solely because of trapping more heat to my body and I get somewhat sweaty.

 

[D-Zum]

I have a DAir suit. Dianese just fits me better. I only wear that one racing. If you wanna call what I do racing. But ya gotta show up and grid up or shut up. Lol.

I have another Dianese suit I use for track days and MiniGP practice days. Just wear a back protector with that one.

Probably gonna get the kid a suit that works with an AStar vest this fall. He’s on an R3 with wera now too. So when he finally outgrows this suit, which won’t be long. I’ll get him a new one with that upgrade.

He has a HitAir vest now. He also wears a back protector.

 

[corey4]

all very good points. so the tech air 5 has a built in back protector, or am i misunderstanding?

i thought about the outer air bags, but would they not induce a tumble instead of a slide?

 

[McTrackPack]

I alternate between back+chest protector and my TechAir5. The reason I alternate is simply because getting the vest and suit on takes some effort and sometimes I end up exerting almost as much effort getting in and out of it than I do riding on track. I'm the type of person that want my upper part of the suit and vest off between every session, cant' leave it on. I have come up with a pretty good way to get it on over time so not as bad as it used to be. If you expect to put your vest on and then simply pull your suit over it, it ain't gonna happen unless you have a suit that's 3 sizes too large!! I've wrecked once with TechAir5 and photographer happened to be in a "great" spot (got a sequence of like 30 pics...) and it was inflated by the time I touched the ground (maybe even before) on a low-side. Slid, tumbled a few times and nothing hurt afterwards. It does have a built in back protector on the vest, probably not the best if airbag doesn't go off but better than nothing.

 

[McTrackPack]

One other important point: If you use an airbag vest under the suit, you need a suit that is designed for it with the extra "expansion panels" or it might squeeze the (fill in the blank) out you when it goes off!!

 

[Rehh]

I use techair race with Astar missle ignition, in summer heat 90s it’s too hot for me and I’ll switch back to a regular Astar back protector. Still hot but not as hot as with air vest which cuts off all your core cooling air movement

 

[Laszlo]

all very good points. so the tech air 5 has a built in back protector, or am i misunderstanding?

i thought about the outer air bags, but would they not induce a tumble instead of a slide?

Interesting thought re tumble. Googling it for footage or reflections after a crash I could not see any evidence of it. I don’t think it would induce a tumble, unlike a backpack IMO which is why I don’t wear one. I think any AB makes the torso puff up and that hasn’t induced a tumble and so not sure if the outer AB vests would be any different since they’re pretty snug when they inflate. If you can ignore the screaming followed by horrible generic techno which is a prime example of why most hate techno (though there is actual good techno IMO), then this vid shows a slide half-way through on the back:

.

 

[Laszlo]

Interesting thought re tumble. Googling it for footage or reflections after a crash I could not see any evidence of it. I don’t think it would induce a tumble, unlike a backpack IMO which is why I don’t wear one. I think any AB makes the torso puff up and that hasn’t induced a tumble and so not sure if the outer AB vests would be any different since they’re pretty snug when they inflate. If you can ignore the screaming followed by horrible generic techno which is a prime example of why most hate techno (though there is actual good techno IMO), then this vid shows a slide half-way through on the back:

.

another interesting vid:

and a non-track demo:

This is what I have for track, but I'm NOT saying this is THE and the ONLY one that's good.

 

[Rehh]

My highside at Road Atlanta was right in front of photog who got a string of 30 photos of the entire crash. My Techair race didn’t go off until after I hit the ground and slid/rolled for 50ft or so. Very disappointing. Astar had basically nothing to say except they don’t guarantee it will go off at all. Not only that after I downloaded the crash data and sent it to them along with vest they said everything was working properly and it didn’t malfunction

This was at the N2 TD October 3 last year

 

[Laszlo]

My highside at Road Atlanta was right in front of photog who got a string of 30 photos of the entire crash. My Techair race didn’t go off until after I hit the ground and slid/rolled for 50ft or so. Very disappointing. Astar had basically nothing to say except they don’t guarantee it will go off at all. Not only that after I downloaded the crash data and sent it to them along with vest they said everything was working properly and it didn’t malfunction

This was at the N2 TD October 3 last year

oy, particularly that it's from last October. You make it out OK after the crash?

 

[Rehh]

oy, particularly that it's from last October. You make it out OK after the crash?

No broke my arm right arm in three places, the worst being the radial head of the elbow socket; after three months of rehab the determined the bone had died and so had get titanium radial head replacement surgery. Permanently disabled to some degree in that arm now, still in rehab now but have a 10-15 degree reduction in flexion, rotation and contraction. Also tore the forearm muscle and ruptured a tendon

 

[Laszlo]

holy crap, to put it politely. Not only re bone damage but serious tendon and other soft tissue. Never had broken bones (total 71 stitches owing to various several accidents) and appreciate that rehab is a long journey and tough. hope it's going well enough and you can stick with it.
not helpful at all I know, but judging by the distance in the pic, either the Helite or HitAir mechanical vests would've been pulled and activated at that distance (as I'm sure in calm horror you were staring at your bike as you flew through the air).

 

[Rehh]

Thanks man, been back on track recently, three “attempted” track days really. day before first TD back found I had cracked fork leg from the RA crash so had to ride a street bike I had just bought, it had a bad chatter problem and a pogo stick rear shock problem so couldn’t ride it and my arm was hurting so quit after lunch. Went back to Barber couple weeks later after the MA race, on track bike, bike felt good with all the new parts and suspension, I felt better, but after two sessions found I had fuel leak from RA crash, done. Then last weekend on the way to the track loaded with my bike truck broke down. So there ya go, one thing after another.

 

[Laszlo]

oy, that really sucks truly. hope you get it sorted soon and maybe this is a stage-back season to prep for next year and rebuild.

 

[Rehh]

On the crash, I was almost all the way down on the left lowside, so far I bent the shift lever to the case. Let go of the bike to slide out but at that instant the tires grabbed and the bike flipped. It grabbed my crotch and launched me over the top and out in front of the bike. I was falling face first into the asphalt and instinctively put my arms out to protect my face. Still the impact to the helmet left me with two black eyes and a bloody nose where the helmet smashed my face on impact

 

[Laszlo]

Damn! Seems like grabbing your crotch to form a more rounded shape helped but then the crash took over. I did car track sessions for about a decade and there it was much easier: let go of steering wheel and breathe out….knowing how to fall is important, even when things go sideways after. YCRS and N2 are only schools / orgs that in my experience talk about this I once asked at an off-road school in NJ, and was told simply to pray…

 

[Rehh]

No

Damn! Seems like grabbing your crotch to form a more rounded shape helped but then the crash took over. I did car track sessions for about a decade and there it was much easier: let go of steering wheel and breathe out….knowing how to fall is important, even when things go sideways after. YCRS and N2 are only schools / orgs that in my experience talk about this I once asked at an off-road school in NJ, and was told simply to pray…

I didn’t grab my crotch…lol; the bike did when the tires grabbed and the bike flipped over to highside me. If I had let go of the bars a fraction of a second earlier the bike wouldn’t have grabbed me and threw me over the top, I Iwould of slid out uninjured on the low side