Be ware of buying a used Track Bike

[BigCountry1125]

Thanks Marshall for all the great input.. Ive heard all the stories of "the Marshall" Man what a great guy! I learned so much from him while he try to set up my "gem of a buy" lol...new track bike.

First.. The paint job is pretty sweet, but thats about as far as it got. Marshall looked it over and found the sub frame was cut off, it had "Porsche" blue brake fluid in it, the rear shock valving was blown out and he said a couple time your going to ride this on the track?? Great confidence builder before i ride it out for the first time ever.

Two sessions into the day in B group the exhaust is now blowing white and blue smoke, check the oil level after the third session, ahhh isn't there supposed to be oil in the sight glass (thanks Ron Hix's mechanic for taking a peek at it for me and noticed it before i took it out for the last session and possibly blown the motor and what was left of the oil all over the track.)

Well when i picked the bike up the guy told me he used Sea Foam as a stabilizer so the exhaust will smoke for a little while... :banghead::banghead:


Thought I got a good deal on it, ride one session and find out the rear shock's valving is blown out.. $900.00, motor is puffing smoke now. New Motor (used) $ 750.00, new set of tires $300.00, suspension set up 60.00....So my $2600.00 Good deal just cost me an extra $2000.00 for a grand total of a $4600.00 Track Ho!

Well now i will have a good bike for awhile that i know everypiece i replaced will last...:doh:

 

[HighWay]

Sorry you bought a lemon. I hate sellers that are not up front.

Have to ask... What's wrong with the Porsche blue brake fluid. I take it your talking about this...

I loved it in my Brembo.

 

[ronhix]

BigCountry1125;125885 wrote: (thanks Ron Hix's mechanic for taking a peek at it for me and noticed it before i took it out for the last session and possibly blown the motor and what was left of the oil all over the track.)

Glad he could help you out.

His name Eric Hawk, Jr. We all call him Junior. He owns Hawkeye Superbikes and has a pretty impressive pedigree of doing it all as part of some AMA pro teams.

I'm very impressed with him this year. My bikes are not only fast but are very, very easy to ride; which is the true mark of a race bike builder.

Just wanted to give him some props myself.

 

[BigCountry1125]

it might be good fluid, but the only problem i found "Thanks Marshall" regular fluid is clearish and when it starts to fade from boiling off to much it starts to darken and youknow when to replace it before you hit 160 on a front staight and find out the fluid is worn out and you dont stop...

The porsche fluid starts off dark blue, so when do you know when it is fading and to replace it?

 

[BigCountry1125]

ronhix;125890 wrote: Glad he could help you out.

His name Eric Hawk, Jr. We all call him Junior. He owns Hawkeye Superbikes and has a pretty impressive pedigree of doing it all as part of some AMA pro teams.

I'm very impressed with him this year. My bikes are not only fast but are very, very easy to ride; which is the true mark of a race bike builder.

Just wanted to give him some props myself.

Extra thanks to Junior, Super nice Guy!

Everyone i have met so far have been great! NESBIAN'S are the friendliest group of people i have ever met

 

[mike27]

Yeah, it is a cool paint scheme. He had the shark bike next to my 750 all weekend and everyone is looking at his and giving my bike a complex. People started telling me "hey, nice bike" when I was standing by his and I thought I heard my bike whimper. Good thing I didn't say "thanks", my bike would have thrown my off in turn 10 if it heard that.

m/ Rock On!

 

[clandestiny]

Sucks that someone did that.

 

[BigCountry1125]

He finally returned my texts and said he had no idea about the motor... Said he had the local Suzuki shop check it out and they told him it was running rich thats why it is smoking lol

 

[HighWay]

BigCountry1125;125891 wrote:
The porsche fluid starts off dark blue, so when do you know when it is fading and to replace it?

I just replace it once a year. :dunno:

 

[dlockhart5x]

The concept behind ATE blue and gold is that you alternate colors. Doing so lets you see when the old one is fully flushed out of the system.

 

[ZLTFUL]

Glad you got everything sorted. Sucks it cost you more money to do it.

Please see my response to your post about Sea Foam in your thread in the other forum section. Now that I have read this thread, I can pretty much assure you that the Sea Foam was not the cause of your woes but a dishonest seller.

 

[NickMcCoy]

I think this thread is misleading. I would like to know what kind of bike it is and what kind of parts it came with for that price. When you buy a race bike, that means you are buying something that has been beat to absolute shit in most cases. Even if the seller takes great care of it, there are things that go wrong, this is probably why they are so cheap. If you add up the cost of all the parts on these things, you're getting a total steal buying them used, usually half of what was put into them. But you also know that the bike has been abused and might need some work.

Also, having a shock rebuilt should cost you $100-150 plus parts, not $900. And if you don't want to blow your motor up, try checking the oil before you ride it, not after it starts smoking. And the color of fluid is meaningless, you're not going to fly off the track because your fluid gets old anyway, just change it out after a few trackdays.

Edit- Just saw the ad for the bike you bought. If the motor really is bad and he didn't tell you, then I'm completely on your side, but from what you've said, it sounds like it's still running. So do you really know what's wrong with it? You still got a decent deal but next time, spend a little more to get a newer bike to try to avoid this.

 

[sobottka]

big country- nothing sucks more than dumping more cash than you expect but you get what you pay for ....and for $2600 you dont get much

 

[Kawtipping]

It is a shame that something like this has happened. However, had due diligence been given before you took it to the track, you could have seen most of the problems. Anytime you buy a bike, new or used, with the intention of riding it on the street or track you should check it over. One persons idea of good can mean that it will run, stop and turn without killing you. While someone else will view it as garbage because it is only running on 3 out of 4 cylinders, only the rear brakes work and will turn...but barely.

The best advice anyone can give is this. If you are not sure what you are looking at when it comes to a used bike, bring someone with you that knows his/her stuff! Even if you have to pay someone to check it over, it would be cheaper than going through what you are going through now.

From what you have posted, you can not blame the seller for your motor. You failed to check the oil level before you rode it. That check should be done before you ride a bike on a near daily basis. A blown shock is not an easy thing to hide, and in the post in the classifieds nothing was mentioned about the shock good or bad. This comes down to knowing what you should be looking for. Unfortunately you learned the hard way...but at least you didn't learn this on a bigger scale (ie on a $5k bike instead).

I really hope you can find a inexpensive way to get everything up and running properly. I would not wish you problems on anyone. All I can say is treat it as a learning experience. After this you will have intimate knowledge of your bike. Something the previous owner probably paid someone else to do...but they didn't do it right.

 

[ronhix]

NickMcCoy;125954 wrote: When you buy a race bike, that means you are buying something that has been beat to absolute shit in most cases. Even if the seller takes great care of it, there are things that go wrong, this is probably why they are so cheap.

Buying new is NOT the way to go.

Let's be honest, you can't put a sportbike on the track and not "run it very hard". But thankfully, that is exactly what these bikes are made for.

Buying used is by far the best way to go. The catch is to do it the right way.

Have a professional race shop measure and then disassemble the chassis down to the nuts. Once they clean / lube / torque to spec all the bearing, etc, the bike will probably be in better shape than if you bought it new at the dealership (I've seen some of the dealers "prep" a new bike!). In addition, some street parts are just not needed and during reassembly the bike will be lighter as a result.

Every motor needs a refresh done at least once a year. Common failure parts like valves, etc should be replaced and everything else needs to be inspected. Every brand of motor has its own issues and all of them are different, so work with someone that knows YOUR brand of bike. As far as mods go, focus on getting as much air into and out of the motor as possible and then dyno-tune the bike. Leave the "big engine mods" to the drag bikes.

Since you need to freshen the suspension anyway, send it off and have a pro do it for your weight / pace.

This method yields a far superior end product at a much cheaper price than buying new.

I have a lot of experience working closely with the many different area shops, some good and some not-so-good. If you would like recommendations, shoot me a PM.

 

[BigCountry1125]

Kawtipping;125968 wrote:

From what you have posted, you can not blame the seller for your motor. You failed to check the oil level before you rode it. That check should be done before you ride a bike on a near daily basis. A blown shock is not an easy thing to hide, and in the post in the classifieds nothing was mentioned about the shock good or bad. This comes down to knowing what you should be looking for. Unfortunately you learned the hard way...but at least you didn't learn this on a bigger scale (ie on a $5k bike instead).

I really hope you can find a inexpensive way to get everything up and running properly. I would not wish you problems on anyone. All I can say is treat it as a learning experience. After this you will have intimate knowledge of your bike. Something the previous owner probably paid someone else to do...but they didn't do it right.

I checked all fluids and OIL level before riding it... The seller just changed the oil and brake fluids... the smoking didn't happen till i was riding it at high rpms, and after i restarted it after a session for a few seconds.. the motor isn't blown yet because i caught it without oil in it...

The seller mentioned the little bit of smoke and said he took it to his local Suzuki shop and they told him the smoke was from it running rich so they had him take off the pcII and he said it took care of it. the bike has a full t-force system and race filter so i know it needs a programmer.


The Shock wasnt as much as a suprize, as i was planning on putting a penske on it anyway but just didnt think i would need it right away...

 

[paintedblue]

ronhix;125987 wrote: Buying new is NOT the way to go.

Let's be honest, you can't put a sportbike on the track and not "run it very hard". But thankfully, that is exactly what these bikes are made for.

Buying used is by far the best way to go. The catch is to do it the right way.

Have a professional race shop measure and then disassemble the chassis down to the nuts. Once they clean / lube / torque to spec all the bearing, etc, the bike will probably be in better shape than if you bought it new at the dealership (I've seen some of the dealers "prep" a new bike!). In addition, some street parts are just not needed and during reassembly the bike will be lighter as a result.

Every motor needs a refresh done at least once a year. Common failure parts like valves, etc should be replaced and everything else needs to be inspected. Every brand of motor has its own issues and all of them are different, so work with someone that knows YOUR brand of bike. As far as mods go, focus on getting as much air into and out of the motor as possible and then dyno-tune the bike. Leave the "big engine mods" to the drag bikes.

Since you need to freshen the suspension anyway, send it off and have a pro do it for your weight / pace.

This method yields a far superior end product at a much cheaper price than buying new.

I have a lot of experience working closely with the many different area shops, some good and some not-so-good. If you would like recommendations, shoot me a PM.

ron don't take this the wrong way but are you really telling someone in the 'b' group to take their new bike to a professional race shop for a complete tear down? really? i mean i guess it depends on your income and intentions as far as riding goes but outside of finding someone who knows what they are talking and having them help you replace fluids, etc having the bike torn down this early in the riders track career seems a bit overkill. a rider in b group isn't, or rather shouldn't, be looking for the lightest, fastest and best bike they can find. i mean it's nice and all but really it doesn't mean much of anything if you don't know body position, throttle and brake controls etc. In time and depending on the rider's intentions (i.e. racing etc) then this might need to be done but i don't believe this is a necessity when it comes to just track days. just my .02.

 

[dlockhart5x]

BigCountry1125;125998 wrote: I checked all fluids and OIL level before riding it... The seller just changed the oil and brake fluids... the smoking didn't happen till i was riding it at high rpms, and after i restarted it after a session for a few seconds.. the motor isn't blown yet because i caught it without oil in it...

The seller mentioned the little bit of smoke and said he took it to his local Suzuki shop and they told him the smoke was from it running rich so they had him take off the pcII and he said it took care of it. the bike has a full t-force system and race filter so i know it needs a programmer.


The Shock wasnt as much as a suprize, as i was planning on putting a penske on it anyway but just didnt think i would need it right away...

Black smoke is fuel rich
white/ grey = oil
and you should be able to smell it.

oil gets into the exhaust in a few ways
the easy cheap one is a over fill and oil gets pumped out the breather and in many bikes that is vented to the airbox
the oil is sucked right in the intake track
easy fix wipe out the excess oil and set the level properly
common on Aprilia Milles and air cooled Porsches (both dry sump motors and owners do not understand how to check the level correctly)

the less easy/ more dollar ways are
leaking past the valve guides often smokes on/ after decel
fix = top end job
2nd
leaking past / broken rings
compression test may reveal a problem with 1 or more cylinders
fix = rebuild or ebay a new used motor and take your chances.

If it hasn't gone boom clank clank, a valve job or rebuild should be pretty easy and not require a ton of parts

a cheap compression tester is a valuable tool when evaluating a potential purchase.
you do not need to know what the pressure should be, but rather that all the cylinders give similar readings. A dead cylinder will be pretty obvious.

 

[BigCountry1125]

dlockhart5x;126006 wrote: less easy/ more dollar ways are
leaking past the valve guides often smokes on/ after decel
fix = top end job
2nd
leaking past / broken rings
compression test may reveal a problem with 1 or more cylinders
fix = rebuild or ebay a new used motor and take your chances.

If it hasn't gone boom clank clank, a valve job or rebuild should be pretty easy and not require a ton of parts

a cheap compression tester is a valuable tool when evaluating a potential purchase.
you do not need to know what the pressure should be, but rather that all the cylinders give similar readings. A dead cylinder will be pretty obvious.

I luckily caught it before it went boom clank clank... It definatly has valve guides leaking, not sure on the broken rings. I'll have a compression test done on it when i get it out of the bike. New motor is on the way, hopefully the old one is just valve guides and i can rebuild it for a spare motor...

thanks for the input

 

[ronhix]

paintedblue;126001 wrote: ron don't take this the wrong way but are you really telling someone in the 'b' group to take their new bike to a professional race shop for a complete tear down? really?

No, I said rather than buying new it is better to buy USED and have the USED bike gone through thoroughly by a professional in order to refresh it to NEW status.

Sorry if I did not communicate clearly.