Brake cleaning and maintenance

[rk97]

I've been debating whether or not I need new brake pads for the first weekend of the season, and the answer is "probably not," but the more I think about it, the more i'd rather just start the season on a fresh set of pads and not worry about it for that much longer.

with that decided, while I've got the calipers off, it just makes sense to do a full cleaning, and replace the fluid. (i've got a pad dragging anyway)

Any advice? I've read a few 'how-to' guides, and I have a service manual, so that's all taken care of.

my biggest questions are:

- what type of cleaner is safe to use on the rubber seals inside the caliper, around the pistons?

and

- what ISN'T the manual telling me? any tricks or tips? Someone said to hold the caliper above the master cylinder when I pour in new fluid, and i won't have to bleed the brakes (which is another thing i've never had to do before...)

Thanks!
-Chris

 

[snikwad]

i always use soap and water.
take the pads out and use soapy water and soft toothbrush to clean it up.
Then rinse, air dry, then reinstall.

 

[dmb367]

How bad is the brake drag? All bike have some brake drag.

I rebuilt my calipers in the off season b/c I was only getting one revolution of front wheel spin when the bike was on a front stand (and giving it a pretty hard spin). If it's an older bike I would recommend replacing the seals. It's very easy to do and it gives you good piece of mind for the track. New piston seals kits aren't very expensive either. I would use brake fluid to clean the pistons if you're not going to take them apart. Some other stuff like mineral spirits or the green can of brake clean should be okay as well. Otherwise, soap and water is the way to go. Also, make sure you clean up the rotors if you're switching to a different type of pad.

I can muster up some links when I get home.

 

[physicistkev]

Brakes are an interesting chore. I will typically rebuild the calipers (tear down, remove pistons, split them thoroughly clean them, replace all o-rings and reassemble) every few years. It really depends on how much you ride and if you don't clean them regularly.

The enemy is buildup on the outside of the pistons. If this build up starts to touch the outer o-ring around one of the pistons then you end up with a piston that doesn't recede all the way or one that will not push the pad all the way out. Once this happens you have to disassemble and clean at a minimum. If your going to disassemble you might as well replace all of the o-rings. Usually $75 for a set(both calipers) for my bike.

If the buildup gets under the first o-ring and starts to work on the inner o-ring then you start to run into stuck pistons and leaks. Usually there are symptoms that cause you to work on the brakes long before this actually happens.

I use brake cleaner on my brakes. Works fine but probably not the best thing for the environment. Soapy water works well, but will require a little more elbow grease.

As far as tips and tricks go. There are a few basic things.

Always use new crush washers on your banjo bolts.

Check what type of brake fluid you should use. (silicon or not)

I have never used a brake vacuum but I have heard that they speed the process up. I use the tried and true method of

fill reservoir
unscrew bleeder on one caliper a little (if your calipers are daisy chained together start with the one closest to your master cylinder)
squeeze brake lever and hold
screw bleeder on said caliper
release lever
unscrew bleeder on said caliper a little
squeeze brake lever and hold
tighten bleeder on said caliper
release brake leaver
repeat for what seems a long time.

Move to other caliper. Follow above directions.
Move back to first caliper and repeat until you are getting no air bubbles. Then go to second caliper and go until you get no bubbles.

DO NOT EVER PUMP THE BRAKE LEVER WHILE BLEEDING YOUR BRAKES. Only pump after you have removed almost all of the air, to check for how stiff the brakes actually are. If you pump the lever while there is still a decent amount of air in the lines you can create zillions of small bubbles in the fluid. The fluid will look very milky. At that point you need to walk away for a day or 2 to let the bubbles congeal back into larger pockets of air that can easily be removed.

The reservoir should always be ABOVE the calipers when you are bleeding them. In fact, you should just bleed the brakes in the normal positions when mounted on the bike. Just make sure that the reservoir never runs out of fluid and that no section of brake line or tube is above the level of fluid on your reservoir.

Working on brakes takes a bunch of patience. It will all pay off with excellent brake feel in the end though.

 

[stephenjpauls]

I found brake bleeding to be the worst part of my brake job. The one thing I found that helped out SO much is after you start getting brake fluid out of the calipers from early bleeding, put a zip tie on the brake lever and let it sit for 24 hours... then bleed your brakes agian. This made the job so much better.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[PJZOCC624]

It's a little thing, but remove the slider pins and clean those up also. Spray some brake cleaner on them, clean 'em up, then scrub them with sand paper so they're nice and smooth. It helps to make sure they're sliding freely with little or no "gunk" to inhibit them. (I'd like to take credit for this tip, but Jeff Murphy gave me this one)

 

[dmb367]

PJZOCC17;42152 wrote: It's a little thing, but remove the slider pins and clean those up also. Spray some brake cleaner on them, clean 'em up, then scrub them with sand paper so they're nice and smooth. It helps to make sure they're sliding freely with little or no "gunk" to inhibit them. (I'd like to take credit for this tip, but Jeff Murphy gave me this one)

Awesome tip. I had to sand both caliper pins to get a smooth surface again. Don't forget to put a ultra thin layer of synthetic brake grease on the pin too.

 

[snikwad]

You know, I've neglected my calipers for a while. I'll address em this weekend. Not rebuilding sh1t tho, I'd rather just replace em, hell, I'm trying to get some 08 monoblocs anyway. So I'm just gonna clean em. That tip with the pins is so true, I did that last time. Makes a difference for sure.

 

[physicistkev]

The pins!!!! I always forget about the pins. Believe it or not they take a mountain of abuse and stress. Cleaning them up works, but if they are seriously pitted or rough you should replace them. They are not very expensive. No more then $10 or so each.

Also pay attention to the buttons on your rotor/carrier. Clean those as well and make sure they move freely. They should spin with relative ease. If they don't then you should clean them. Also, when replacing pads you can ensure quicker and better beading if you prep the surface of the rotor. I will take the rotors off and use a high speed sander to remove the grooves from the surface of the front and back of the rotor. Your looking for an even dull finish, ensuring that the rotors surface is flat and uniform. If you can't do this at least use some 220 or 320 grit sand paper and scuff both sides of the rotor.

When you get to the track with the new pads mounted just take it easy into the corners on the first lap. Ease onto the brakes and don't over heat them. Should take about a lap to get the pads up to %80 stopping power and they should only get better for the next few laps. After that you are all set.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

What do you mean Kevin, by "don't over heat them"?

BZ

 

[dmb367]

physicistkev;42199 wrote: Also, when replacing pads you can ensure quicker and better beading if you prep the surface of the rotor. I will take the rotors off and use a high speed sander to remove the grooves from the surface of the front and back of the rotor. Your looking for an even dull finish, ensuring that the rotors surface is flat and uniform. If you can't do this at least use some 220 or 320 grit sand paper and scuff both sides of the rotor.

I snagged one of these after someone recommended it on another board, and it works wonders!

http://www.arizonatools.com/tools/brake-rotor-hones/detail/BRMRMFH120Z25/?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=productfeeds

 

[physicistkev]

Bubba Z

When you have new pads, you have less than 100% surface contact. A lot less then 100%. If you go out and immediately start hammering on the brakes, especially if you have not leveled/smoothed/resurfaced... your rotors, you will focus the wear and heat on specific spots on the pad. This will cause the heat to be focused on the rotor also. Instead of localized areas like on the pad it will be in a radial pattern on the rotor. There are 2 bad things that happen when you do this. One, since you are heating the rotor unevenly, they can warp. Two, the pad will "glaze" in the overheating area causing spots on the pad that are harder or softer, depends on the pad material. When you do #2 you have lessened braking potential and as long as the glazed spots are there they will cause uneven heating on the rotor, which may cause rotors to warp.

I don't believe that the newer braking materials (pads and rotors) are very susceptible, but it's still a concern regardless. You just need a few laps to work the pads into the existing grooves on your rotor, if you don't level them out, or a few corners if you do level out your rotors. This has been my experience with the RJL pads and the Galfer rotors I have on my bike currently. I had the same experience with Forodo pads and the EBC pro-lite rotors I used to have.

Maybe I am nit picky, but I have had no issues thus far so I can't be doing any harm :notsure:

 

[physicistkev]

DMB

That looks pretty cool. How big is it? The high speed sander pads I use are about 3 inches in diameter. Just the right size so I don't sand off the carrier or the buttons.

 

[dmb367]

physicistkev;42207 wrote: DMB

That looks pretty cool. How big is it? The high speed sander pads I use are about 3 inches in diameter. Just the right size so I don't sand off the carrier or the buttons.

I would say its pretty close to that. I had to use a little caution to not snag the buttons on my rotors. It only took me only 2-3 minutes per side to get them looking brand spanking new. It also creates a nice cross-hatch in the rotors, just like a cylinder hone would. Great product

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

physicistkev;42206 wrote: Bubba Z

When you have new pads, you have less than 100% surface contact. A lot less then 100%. If you go out and immediately start hammering on the brakes, especially if you have not leveled/smoothed/resurfaced... your rotors, you will focus the wear and heat on specific spots on the pad. This will cause the heat to be focused on the rotor also. Instead of localized areas like on the pad it will be in a radial pattern on the rotor. There are 2 bad things that happen when you do this. One, since you are heating the rotor unevenly, they can warp. Two, the pad will "glaze" in the overheating area causing spots on the pad that are harder or softer, depends on the pad material. When you do #2 you have lessened braking potential and as long as the glazed spots are there they will cause uneven heating on the rotor, which may cause rotors to warp.

I don't believe that the newer braking materials (pads and rotors) are very susceptible, but it's still a concern regardless. You just need a few laps to work the pads into the existing grooves on your rotor, if you don't level them out, or a few corners if you do level out your rotors. This has been my experience with the RJL pads and the Galfer rotors I have on my bike currently. I had the same experience with Forodo pads and the EBC pro-lite rotors I used to have.

Maybe I am nit picky, but I have had no issues thus far so I can't be doing any harm :notsure:

Thanks Kevin!

I just put new EBC HH's on my bike and was bedding them in my doing quick stops in my local school parking lot.

Now I'm wondering if THAT was a good idea:notsure:

I didn't do it for long...I still have plenty of break in time..I think LOL!

I could feel the pads starting to bite better, and I did two sessions with a break in between for the rotors to cool. Next ride I'll just tak it easy.

BZ

 

[awhicker]

That actually brings up another point I wanted to ask about. My track bike isn't street legal. I own an FZ that I go to work on everyday, but the track bike is a R6. It feels compeletly different. Ive ridden it around my block a few times, but I don't want the police to stop me.

Do you guys ever take (via trailer) your bike to an empty parking lot just to fool around with the throttle, brakes, clutch, etc before heading to a track day? Or do you just go to the track day?

 

[Thunderace]

I just shoot up and down my front street. The neighbors love it when I hit 80mph in less than 200 yards!

 

[riddler]

Great thread! Thanks guys!

I am putting my bike back together due to a sticky caliper crash that I tried to ignore for just one last track weekend last year...

I won't do that again.

Not to thread jack, but...

I had Vesrah SRJL pads on the bike... too much dust... Any suggestions for a 98 R1?

 

[dmb367]

riddler;42239 wrote: Great thread! Thanks guys!

I am putting my bike back together due to a sticky caliper crash that I tried to ignore for just one last track weekend last year...

I won't do that again.

Not to thread jack, but...

I had Vesrah SRJL pads on the bike... too much dust... Any suggestions for a 98 R1?

Stick to those pads man, they're the :adore:

 

[physicistkev]

Just go to the track day and take it easy at first, as you always should. Even the A guys are slow to start with. You have to get the bike, tires and brakes to operating temp. You have to knock the rust off since the last time you rode. You have to get your brain up to track speed. All these things need to be done to ride quickly, safely.

Like I said earlier.

If you just take it easy on your first few laps. Ease onto the brakes in the corners, your brakes should be set in a few laps. That's if you didn't prepare the rotors. If you prepped the rotors then it should only take a few corners, probably long enough to get some real heat in the tires.

The worries about brakes is uneven heating or very rapid changes in temperature. (Bubba) Since you did your quick stops in a parking lot, you really don't have the ability to put enough temp in the rotors to do any damage. Think about Summit Main...

Out of the pits to turn one. Nice easy braking starting at the first marker, no real dive in the front end. You aren't going fast enough to break real hard. You do that type of corner entry on the first lap of most corners anyway so your not going to pour too much heat into the brakes. Next time around into turn one you now have 90% speed into turn one. Break at the first marker again but this time you have some nose dive because you are starting to shed some decent speed. Same thing goes for the rest of the corners. Third lap you should be up to or close to your pace and your brakes should be all set. Rotor prep or not.

Now, I helped a gent with his brakes at summit main last year. Can't remember his name, but we slapped a set or RJL's on his GSXR750 and he went out and hammered it. No adverse affects. Moral is, that my above recommendations may not even be necessary. I just like to follow some simple guidelines to ensure nothing goes wrong.

Kevin