BRAKE FAILURE.....Have you experienced one?

[CaseyAlbert]

If you have experienced or know of someone that has experienced brake failure, please post a comment so that others might learn.

I spoke with one "expert rider" guy recently that told me how his front locked up. Searching for the cause, he found that his reservoir had too much fluid, which after getting hot, left no room for expansion, and resulted in a fairly disastrous crash.

I have not had a brake failure incident, but have had "off track excursions."

After one of the crashes at PittRace, I started taking a HARD look at "off track" exit strategies at all of the corners..... As we have witnessed, there are many corners that are not "off track" friendly. You really have to think about this before it occurs. If I have an unplanned event(happened at PittRace in turn 1 July 9th). I braked HARD with the front until reaching the grass, then did not brake at all nor turn much until the bike slowed. Turn 1 is probably the best turn to have an event.

In other turns, NOT braking in the grass will not end well. One thing I have learned, you MUST still look where you want the bike to go, not where it wants to go.
Trail braking, if you are NOT doing it, you must learn it. There are many instances where you might get stood up in a corner, but have plenty of time to get on the front to reduce speed to make the corner safely.

Have an experience. Please add it here.

 

[MK3Brent]

I started taking a HARD look at "off track" exit strategies at all of the corners..... As we have witnessed, there are many corners that are not "off track" friendly.

One of my favorite things Kappy says: "Look at where the run-off is... more importantly, look where the run-off isn't!"

 

[bmart]

Many of the things that Kappy says are my favorite things that Kappy says.

With the inclusion of electronics, braking systems are a bit more complicated, but at their core, they're simple systems, so simple to find potential failure points. A lever/pedal pushes a piston that moves fluid through a hose(s) to other pistons that tighten on a rotating disc. So easy that a caveman could understand, right?

Some of the things I've seen in no particular order, all avoidable.

• Too little fluid in the reservoir or some other leak. Air gets in as the pads wear and bazinga, no brakes. Fix: Monitor fluid. That's why they're viewable.
• Too much fluid, as you noted already. Fix: Monitor fluid. That's why they're viewable.
• Old or used up fluid that is contaminated with metal/rubber bits or H2O. Fix: Brake fluid is cheap and flushing a system is a simple job on most bikes. I do mine twice per season with Valvoline...which is nearly free. There is a proper way to bleed hydraulics, and Iiving proof that a caveman can do it.
• Pads worn to nothing. It doesn't take much to reduce braking power significantly. Brake pads can wear at an angle. Once the metal backing of a pad touches a rotor... Fix: Monitor pads between track days. If you have to ask if you can get one mroe day or session out of them, replace them. I get ~5k miles out of my Vesrah RJLs which are 4.7mm new, so ~1k miles/mm. Easy to monitor.
• Pads installed backward. Really. Fix: Don't install your pads backward. Get a second set of eyes after you perform work and before you ride. I have another CR look my bikes over before I ride them.
• Pads not installed completely or correctly. Fix: When to comes to brakes, be triple careful. Note proper assembly during disassembly and in the manual. Clean everything properly. Reassmble with no leftover or missing parts. It sounds funny, but there's a reason for all of it. Pins, clips, etc. I have seen more than one incident over the years where the pads "fell out." Again, check the work, even if a pro did it. You are responsible for your equipment. I check the pins and for both clips in each caliper on my R6 before every track day.
• Improperly routed brake lines. We had one in tech recently (outstanding CR catch!) without a front fender and the front lines were rubbing the front tire. Really. Fix: Ensure you've assembled correctly. Check the work of pros. I can't tell you how many times I've had to redo things I paid for pro work on.
• Wrong tire pressure. WIth very low or very high pressure, you're braking will be significanly reduced. Fix: Set PSI properly before you go out and monitor. Know what is "right" for your bike, tires, track.
• Headshake, which can push the pistons and pads back into the calipers. Fix: Anytime that you experience headshake, be sure to set the brakes again by gently adding pressure to the lever until there's friction felt at the pads/rotors...before you need actual braking.
• Broken/damaged lever. Fix: Don't run crappy/damaged levers. If you have an incident, come into the pits and look the bike over or have a CR/staff look it over for you. You don't want to experience having "eyes like saucers."
• Warped or dished rotors significanly reducing braking power. Fix: Check your rotors before track days or at least when you change tires/wheels. Runout and dishing is simple to uncover.
• Loose or missing rotor bolts. Fix: You know this one...install them to the proper torque and double check the work.
• Loose or missing caliper bolts. Fix: You know this one...install them to the proper torque and double check the work. I have seen many calipers come loose over the years. I always put a hand on these bolts during tech to see if they loosen. On a recent street ride, a master tech had one come loose. It can happen. There's a reason that safety wires is used, and you should consider that.
• Components modified without research. "Think that Suzukisaki caliper and master will fit on my Yamacati?" Some swap/lower cost mods work great, like Yamaha systems on a GSXR, but not all. Do your research, don't experiment at a track day.

I'm sure that there are more, but those are top of mind.

 

[HondaGalToo]

Great list, bmart! I'll add one more regarding levers - don't buy those cheap knock offs on ebay. They aren't machined to the same tolerances and can cause the brakes to be on just a bit, leading to overheating/failure. Get a brand name levers - ASV, Pazzo, CRG.

 

[Greg ZX6R]

Paging Slowsteve for Summit brake failure story...

 

[MK3Brent]

Great list, bmart! I'll add one more regarding levers - don't buy those cheap knock offs on ebay. They aren't machined to the same tolerances and can cause the brakes to be on just a bit, leading to overheating/failure. Get a brand name levers - ASV, Pazzo, CRG.

This is a really important point. I've seen this first hand. Misalignment with the piston to the MC is another one.

I'll add to the conversation about cleanliness.
When bleeding your brakes, or in general doing anything near the calipers where brake fluid can be exposed... be extra cautious to not get the fluid on the pads or rotors. Contaminating pads can happen, and you'll suffer stopping power due to it.

 

[Chubna]

I'll share-

Turn 7 at Pittrace. Came down the hill and front brakes were gone. Thankfully I didn't take anyone out with me.

I bought the bike on that Thursday, didn't look over it, and took it out on the track Saturday. Front brake line had been rubbing between the fender and the fork leg. Won't ever make that mistake again.

I luckily got away with minor injuries. My buddy who was the first rider I passed in the video said I supermaned off the bike and obliterated a hay bale. I broke the bone on the tip of my left finger, I'm assuming when I dismounted in extreme fashion. If anyone is on the fence about an airbag vest, I'll gladly talk your ear off about getting one. Best $1000 I ever spend was the Helite vest I still wear.

Pic of the brake line :


Video below:

+1 to all the items bmart suggested above.

 

[meanstrk]

As some of you know, I experienced failure at CMP last month, resulting in 18 rib fractures, broken sternum, broken Scapula, and punctured and collapsed lungs. Very bad. Do not recommend.

Why did the brakes fail? I have been dealing with brake fade/ weak lever on this bike, (R1M) primarily due to head shake, and have been covering the lever with a finger. In this case, I did not, and it was actually a very unpleasant surprise to have the lever come back to my fingers, and no time to react. In order to avoid taking someone else out, I stood it up and took out the tire barrier with my body after bailing off the bike. No air fence. No air bags.

 

[meanstrk]

Great list, bmart! I'll add one more regarding levers - don't buy those cheap knock offs on ebay. They aren't machined to the same tolerances and can cause the brakes to be on just a bit, leading to overheating/failure. Get a brand name levers - ASV, Pazzo, CRG.

I personally dealt with this very issue many years ago. Brand new bike build and cheap knock off levers resulted in front brakes locked up on Lap 1. Never again.

 

[bmart]

Another for the list, leaking fork seals. Fork oil on your brake pads and rotors isn't increasing friction. Only so much is going to come out, but this is why we look at fork seals in tech, and why you should look at yours periodically, too. A cheap (captain cheap here) temp solution is to remove the front wheel, slide a sock up the fork leg and zip tie it in a way that doesn't impede movement but that does force it to catch all fork oil as it exits the fork, long before it can get to the brakes. This is not a long term fix, but may salvage a $1k weekend. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[rpm894]

As some of you know, I experienced failure at CMP last month, resulting in 18 rib fractures, broken sternum, broken Scapula, and punctured and collapsed lungs. Very bad. Do not recommend.

Why did the brakes fail? I have been dealing with brake fade/ weak lever on this bike, (R1M) primarily due to head shake, and have been covering the lever with a finger. In this case, I did not, and it was actually a very unpleasant surprise to have the lever come back to my fingers, and no time to react. In order to avoid taking someone else out, I stood it up and took out the tire barrier with my body after bailing off the bike. No air fence. No air bags.

I’ve heard of a lot of R1s loosing brakes over the last two years. Is it a known R1 issue or bias since there are so many R1s on the track? I’ve heard the head shake explanation a few times too, but is that happening to other bikes or just R1s?

 

[Stickboy274]

When I was racing, I flushed my brake fluid every weekend. I figured, the bottle of fluid was sitting there absorbing air and water anyway. I would rather use it than have it sitting there and going bad. I never drained the whole system. I just pushed fluid through all the time. It takes about 5 minutes to do it once you are set up.

I have a 1 qt bottle with a long piece of aquarium air line tubing (this is the right size to go in the bleed valve and it's cheap) coming out of it. I have 1/4 of the bottle filled with fluid and the end of the hose stays in there. That keeps my from accidentally sucking air into a caliper when bleeding. I'll pump 3-4 of the reservoir cups full through each caliper.

This is a quick and easy way to keep things fresher.

 

[meanstrk]

When I was racing, I flushed my brake fluid every weekend. I figured, the bottle of fluid was sitting there absorbing air and water anyway. I would rather use it than have it sitting there and going bad. I never drained the whole system. I just pushed fluid through all the time. It takes about 5 minutes to do it once you are set up.

I have a 1 qt bottle with a long piece of aquarium air line tubing (this is the right size to go in the bleed valve and it's cheap) coming out of it. I have 1/4 of the bottle filled with fluid and the end of the hose stays in there. That keeps my from accidentally sucking air into a caliper when bleeding. I'll pump 3-4 of the reservoir cups full through each caliper.

This is a quick and easy way to keep things fresher.

Guess what I did the day before mine went to shit?

 

[meanstrk]

I’ve heard of a lot of R1s loosing brakes over the last two years. Is it a known R1 issue or bias since there are so many R1s on the track? I’ve heard the head shake explanation a few times too, but is that happening to other bikes or just R1s?

I have heard of it before on R1’s, but not enough to warrant any proclamation about them being a problem. I have seen other bikes run into head shake problems as well, I will say however, I don’t get this issue on my BMW S1000RR at all.

 

[CaseyAlbert]

As some of you know, I experienced failure at CMP last month, resulting in 18 rib fractures, broken sternum, broken Scapula, and punctured and collapsed lungs. Very bad. Do not recommend.

Why did the brakes fail? I have been dealing with brake fade/ weak lever on this bike, (R1M) primarily due to head shake, and have been covering the lever with a finger. In this case, I did not, and it was actually a very unpleasant surprise to have the lever come back to my fingers, and no time to react. In order to avoid taking someone else out, I stood it up and took out the tire barrier with my body after bailing off the bike. No air fence. No air bags.

So sorry about your unfortunate incident and injuries “meanstrk.” I want to try to stick to “brake failure” here, but have more questions for you….
Concerning “brake fade/weak lever.” Can you explain a little more? I am assuming that you are referring to “brake fade” as when the brake fluid heats up and it takes more lever actuation to get the same braking effect.
From what I’ve read, if the brake fluid gets to it’s boiling point, create bubbles, and “poof,” no brakes.
I notice “fade” on my bike during my typical 20 minute session. I know that not all brake fluids are created equal. I’d like to hear what the endurance racer guys think/brake fluid used, etc…. Do you look at temperature rating of the fluid you use? Recomendations?

 

[buzz-06]

So sorry about your unfortunate incident and injuries “meanstrk.” I want to try to stick to “brake failure” here, but have more questions for you….
Concerning “brake fade/weak lever.” Can you explain a little more? I am assuming that you are referring to “brake fade” as when the brake fluid heats up and it takes more lever actuation to get the same braking effect.
From what I’ve read, if the brake fluid gets to it’s boiling point, create bubbles, and “poof,” no brakes.
I notice “fade” on my bike during my typical 20 minute session. I know that not all brake fluids are created equal. I’d like to hear what the endurance racer guys think/brake fluid used, etc…. Do you look at temperature rating of the fluid you use? Recomendations?

Castrol SRF, stuff isn’t cheap but it’s the best.

 

[HondaGalToo]

I use Motul RBF 600

 

[Otto Man]

So sorry about your unfortunate incident and injuries “meanstrk.” I want to try to stick to “brake failure” here, but have more questions for you….
Concerning “brake fade/weak lever.” Can you explain a little more? I am assuming that you are referring to “brake fade” as when the brake fluid heats up and it takes more lever actuation to get the same braking effect.
From what I’ve read, if the brake fluid gets to it’s boiling point, create bubbles, and “poof,” no brakes.
I notice “fade” on my bike during my typical 20 minute session. I know that not all brake fluids are created equal. I’d like to hear what the endurance racer guys think/brake fluid used, etc…. Do you look at temperature rating of the fluid you use? Recomendations?

RBF600 & Castrol SRF are good brake fluids. However, the rest of your brake system (pads, lines, and master) all contribute to what creates brake fade. Stock rubber lines can swell under hard braking, which will feel like fade. I don't believe any of us can tell the difference between stainless steel line brands or setups (2 lines, inverted t-style setup, etc)

A secondary benefit to new brake pads is the additional pad material helps dissipate heat from the rotors. I can absolutely notice [when riding] when my pads (Vesrah XX) get below 50% or so. Requires harder level pull to accomplish the same level of braking I'm going for. Throw new pads on, zero other changes (same fluid and such) and it goes away.

If you have a stock master cylinder, and they're known for being crappy on that model bike, that could have a huge impact as well. I'm not an engineer, I can't technically explain how heat dissipation in the fluid travels that far up into the MC to affect lever feel when the brakes get hot, but I can say that an aftermarket MC just absolutely makes a world of difference.

So it's the very technical and specific answer to what causes brake fade....It depends.

 

[Otto Man]

I'll share-

Turn 7 at Pittrace. Came down the hill and front brakes were gone. Thankfully I didn't take anyone out with me.

I bought the bike on that Thursday, didn't look over it, and took it out on the track Saturday. Front brake line had been rubbing between the fender and the fork leg. Won't ever make that mistake again.

I luckily got away with minor injuries. My buddy who was the first rider I passed in the video said I supermaned off the bike and obliterated a hay bale. I broke the bone on the tip of my left finger, I'm assuming when I dismounted in extreme fashion. If anyone is on the fence about an airbag vest, I'll gladly talk your ear off about getting one. Best $1000 I ever spend was the Helite vest I still wear.

Pic of the brake line :
View attachment 10017

Video below:

+1 to all the items bmart suggested above.

Glad you walked away from that unscathed (in the grand scheme of things)

I'm also not a fan of the brake line routing. I see the line is somewhat aligned to the tab on the caliper to stop it from rotating, but I don't like that little kink in the line where the top caliper bolt goes. Every time you pull the caliper off, you're pressing up against that brake line with the wall of the socket, risking internal integrity of the brake line. I would see if you could loosen the banjo bolt and rotate that line just a tad more (clock wise if you're looking at the banjo bolt) in order to try and get just a little more clearance.

Every time I set up front brakes on a bike, I am obsessive about them. I turn the bars full lock what seems 50,000 times in the garage, looking at literally every millimeter of brake line from the reservoir to the calipers, looking for any rub spots or potential rub spots. If they still have the line "holder" on the fender bolts, I make sure the rubber isolator is still there. I've seen so many bikes where the bare metal line clamp touches the brake line and is a possible wear point.

 

[Chubna]

Glad you walked away from that unscathed (in the grand scheme of things)

I'm also not a fan of the brake line routing. I see the line is somewhat aligned to the tab on the caliper to stop it from rotating, but I don't like that little kink in the line where the top caliper bolt goes. Every time you pull the caliper off, you're pressing up against that brake line with the wall of the socket, risking internal integrity of the brake line. I would see if you could loosen the banjo bolt and rotate that line just a tad more (clock wise if you're looking at the banjo bolt) in order to try and get just a little more clearance.

Every time I set up front brakes on a bike, I am obsessive about them. I turn the bars full lock what seems 50,000 times in the garage, looking at literally every millimeter of brake line from the reservoir to the calipers, looking for any rub spots or potential rub spots. If they still have the line "holder" on the fender bolts, I make sure the rubber isolator is still there. I've seen so many bikes where the bare metal line clamp touches the brake line and is a possible wear point.

Yeah, I definitely am thankful with the result. Seems like the most instances at turn 7 turn out way worse.

I ended up selling the bike after rebuilding it and riding it for a few more days. I switched to one of the 'racing' brake lines (1 line at mater that tee's into 2) and it made for much cleaner routing after the accident.

Ditto to the obsessive prep and checking when it comes to brakes. I also find myself checking them every time I put the warmers on.

Any recommendations on changing stainless lines due age?