Late Fees? Ain't nobody got time fo dat!

[dickiedoo]

So I try to register yesterday and I get a 404. No worries, I've got a week left.

Then I come back and realize that I'm still required a membership fee (lame) and now I'm getting hit with late fees? Really, WTF do you guys think you are? I feel like I'm doing business with Comcast or Delta here.

Should I expect an "over-sized baggage fee" for my enclosed trailer?

Perhaps you could even squeak out an additional $25 from members when they book on a Tuesday... call it the "Fu#k you, it's Tuesday" Fee.

Ok, I'm obviously joking a bit here, but really, a late fee? Come one guys. This sport is 100% based on discretionary income, and I don't mind paying to play. I do mind pissing money away on "Fees" because you think a week out to book is "Late". It's arbitrary, and based on zero business logic.

Oh, and the membership fee is also moronic. I don't want to be a member, nor do I want instruction, Yamaha Demos, T-shirts, or a NESBA sticker for my trailer. It's great that you offer those things, but don't force your entire customer base to buy into that mess. I want safe, organized track time, and you do a great job with that... stick to that, and let the folks who want more; pay for it.

End rant...

Oh and FWIW, I fully anticipate a Nesbian pile-on so let me help you guys out.

It's their company, and they can do what they want!
Get your a$$ in gear, register earlier and shut up!
Go ride with STT, E-xact, Jennings, etc. YOU SUCK!
Who are you to decline instruction? Everyone needs help... pay your $30 and stop acting like Casey Stoner.

 

[HondaGalToo]

Who pissed in your Cheerios? LOL. Most orgs have a membership fee, and if you're not a member, you pay more for the day. STT, TPM, Absolute all have membershipf fees, and different membership levels, I believe? Pretty sure they all have late fees, too, but I could be wrong about that?

 

[dickiedoo]

HondaGalToo;273729 wrote: Who pissed in your Cheerios? LOL. Most orgs have a membership fee, and if you're not a member, you pay more for the day. STT, TPM, Absolute all have membershipf fees, and different membership levels, I believe? Pretty sure they all have late fees, too, but I could be wrong about that?

I haven't had breakfast yet, so as of now.

The post was intended to get across my aggravation, but also make light of the situation. It is after all a silly first-world problem.

I'm aware of the membership fees, but not everyone makes them mandatory. Also, I may be wrong, but I've never seen a "late" fee associated with a track day org. I see price breaks offered for early registration, but nothing along the lines of a late fee.

 

[jcrich]

or you could just go back to the WERA board.

 

[JRA]

Compare our pricing to other organizations for Road Atlanta you'll see that we are about the same or a lot cheaper no matter when you sign up.

This is what any rider will pay depending on membership or lack there of.


More than fifteen days prior to the event
Member $205
Elite Member $175
Non Member $235

Less than fifteen days prior to an event
Member $235
Elite Member $175
Non Member $265

If a person is considering riding an event with NESBA it just makes sense to sign up a few weeks in advance. If they are considering riding two or more days just purchase the membership since you more than make up for it on the second day, plus you get the crash/mechanical insurance if you sign up in advance.

The pricing and policies aren't hidden or secret. It's all in black and white on the website for anybody who cares to read it. Honestly I don't understand the problem here. Don't you pay more for racing with WERA if you sign up the week before a race? Don't you have to have a membership with WERA? I don't recall seeing any complaint threads over there about pricing. They set up their pricing and policies to encourage people to register early and so do we.

 

[dickiedoo]

jcrich;273731 wrote: or you could just go back to the WERA board.

Damn, I should have anticipated that one.

I would, but I'm still stuck paying fees to ride with Nesba.

 

[JRA]

I see price breaks offered for early registration, but nothing along the lines of a late fee.

Same difference. Early registration/late registration. Pre entry/post entry. Registration/At Track Registration. Pre registration/post registration. Potato/Potato All are terms used by us and others.

It's all the same.

 

[HondaGalToo]

dickiedoo;273730 wrote: I haven't had breakfast yet, so as of now.

The post was intended to get across my aggravation, but also make light of the situation. It is after all a silly first-world problem.

I'm aware of the membership fees, but not everyone makes them mandatory. Also, I may be wrong, but I've never seen a "late" fee associated with a track day org. I see price breaks offered for early registration, but nothing along the lines of a late fee.

A price break for early registration basically amounts to the same thing as a penalty for registering late, no? Same result, you pay more x days out. Calling it early registration discount instead of late fee sounds more palatable, but it amounts to the same increase in cost x days out.

If a membership fee isn't mandatory, then you pay more for a day as a non-member in other orgs, I think.

 

[jcrich]

dickiedoo;273733 wrote: Damn, I should have anticipated that one.

I would, but I'm still stuck paying fees to ride with Nesba.

Yep you should have

 

[dickiedoo]

JRA;273732 wrote: Compare our pricing to other organizations for Road Atlanta you'll see that we are about the same or a lot cheaper no matter when you sing up.

This is what any rider will pay depending on membership or lack there of.


More than fifteen days prior to the event
Member $205
Elite Member $175
Non Member $235

Less than fifteen days prior to an event
Member $235
Elite Member $175
Non Member $265

If a person is considering riding an event with NESBA it just makes sense to sign up a few weeks in advance. If they are considering riding two or more days just purchase the membership since you more than make up for it on the second day, plus you get the crash/mechanical insurance if you sign up in advance.

The pricing and policies aren't hidden or secret. It's all in black and white on the website for anybody who cares to read it. Honestly I don't understand the problem here. Don't you pay more for racing with WERA if you sign up the week before a race? Don't you have to have a membership with WERA? I don't recall seeing any complaint threads over there about pricing. They set up their pricing and policies to encourage people to register early and so do we.

I wasn't saying that they aren't disclosed properly, or that it's not comparable pricing. Aside from the late fee you're correct. You are in line with STT or the likes. However, STT doesn't charge a late fee, nor does WERA. Both offer discounts for registering early, and it's like $10 or something like that. They do this to fill spots early and keep riders engaged up until the day. All of that makes sense to me. It's the airline model, and it's been successfully applied and leveraged by numerous industries around the world.


Here's what I have a gripe on... You say, "If a person is considering riding an event with NESBA it just makes sense to sign up a few weeks in advance."

What is this based on? I mean really. Do you have something like registration data, or consumer surveys that tell you this, or did you just make it up because it sounds about right?

Of course I'd like to register early, but my lifestyle and schedule don't really allow for it. I don't have that luxury, so rather than fill the spot at full price (which I'd love to pay you) you'll penalize me for it. That has zero logic in an industry like this.

I appreciate the response JRA, but we may agree to disagree on this one.


HondaGalToo;273736 wrote: A price break for early registration basically amounts to the same thing as a penalty for registering late, no? Same result, you pay more x days out. Calling it early registration discount instead of late fee sounds more palatable, but it amounts to the same increase in cost x days out.

If a membership fee isn't mandatory, then you pay more for a day as a non-member in other orgs, I think.

Sort of, but perception is reality. The fact that orgs like WERA and STT incentivize consumers to register early with price breaks is one thing, and it works. The difference is I know I will never ever pay more than $95 for a WERA race even if I register within the hour of the event, and I'll never pay more than the posted price on STT's website despite being a walk-up.

I see what you're saying, but it's not really the same thing. Late fees are bad business, and to do it with a model like NESBA is poor practice. That's my opinion.

 

[HondaGalToo]

JRA beat me to it.

 

[JRA]

Should I expect an "over-sized baggage fee" for my enclosed trailer?
Actually camping is free and there is no gate fee so that should be a nice change for you.

Perhaps you could even squeak out an additional $25 from members when they book on a Tuesday... call it the "Fu#k you, it's Tuesday" Fee.

Actually members ride for $125 on Tuesday's no matter where the event is.

 

[dickiedoo]

JRA;273741 wrote: Actually camping is free and there is no gate fee so that should be a nice change for you.



Actually members ride for $125 on Tuesday's not matter where the event is.

I do appreciate the camping thing, but since I'm up an additional $60 in late fees for the weekend of riding I'd only do one day.

Also, the $125 on Tuesdays is nice, but since you guys clearly want the extra coin I think you should really reconsider my "F-U it's Tuesday" fee. Think about what all that extra wealth will get you! With all these fees you could pony up and buy the CR's some branded bean bag chairs or something. :haha:

 

[JRA]

dickiedoo;273738 wrote: I wasn't saying that they aren't disclosed properly, or that it's not comparable pricing. Aside from the late fee you're correct. You are in line with STT or the likes. However, STT doesn't charge a late fee, nor does WERA. Both offer discounts for registering early, and it's like $10 or something like that. They do this to fill spots early and keep riders engaged up until the day. All of that makes sense to me. It's the airline model, and it's been successfully applied and leveraged by numerous industries around the world.


Here's what I have a gripe on... You say, "If a person is considering riding an event with NESBA it just makes sense to sign up a few weeks in advance."

What is this based on? I mean really. Do you have something like registration data, or consumer surveys that tell you this, or did you just make it up because it sounds about right?

Of course I'd like to register early, but my lifestyle and schedule don't really allow for it. I don't have that luxury, so rather than fill the spot at full price (which I'd love to pay you) you'll penalize me for it. That has zero logic in an industry like this.

I appreciate the response JRA, but we may agree to disagree on this one.

Sure, we can disagree. No problem with that and I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but now you have made me go and search out other organizations policies since you specifically mentioned them.

For STT if you aren't a member and sign up less than ten days prior their website says there is a $15 "surcharge". For members it's 24 hrs.

According to the WERA site there are different fees charged for each entry depending on whether it's pre entry or post entry.

The point here is not when the price changes for each organization...it really doesn't matter. What matters is that it is important that people sign up early just for cash flow purposes. When do you think a track requires payment? When do you think the insurance company requires payment?

When people sign up early it helps NESBA meet those obligations and as a result we give those people the absolute best price that we can. If you care to look you'll see that we have some of the best pricing options of any organization if people want to take advantage of it. None of this is meant to single you out personally, it's just that this thread is going to get a lot of views because of the title, and I want to make sure the policies are understood.

Keep in mind this is a non profit organization. Nobody is getting paid here.

But we are doing some good things for our members by giving them good pricing, and also our Air Fence Fundraisers are doing good things for our members and for you as a WERA racer.

Last year we purchased fourteen soft barriers for Road Atlanta. You'll have the benefit of having them in place when you ride with us, or when you race with WERA. This year we hope to purchase at least fifteen more. If we are successful that will be almost three hundred feet of wall that will be covered at Road Atlanta by the great people that support this club.

We aren't all bad by the way. We might "Suck", but in a good way.

 

[Dave561]

I want a bean bag chair. Where do we sign up for that?

 

[dickiedoo]

JRA;273744 wrote: Sure, we can disagree. No problem with that and I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but now you have made me go and search out other organizations policies since you specifically mentioned them.

For STT if you aren't a member and sign up less than ten days prior their website says there is a $15 "surcharge". For members it's 24 hrs.

According to the WERA site there are different fees charged for each entry depending on whether it's pre entry or post entry.

The point here is not when the price changes for each organization...it really doesn't matter. What matters is that it is important that people sign up early just for cash flow purposes. When do you think a track requires payment? When do you think the insurance company requires payment?

When people sign up early it helps NESBA meet those obligations and as a result we give those people the absolute best price that we can. If you care to look you'll see that we have some of the best pricing options of any organization if people want to take advantage of it. None of this is meant to single you out personally, it's just that this thread is going to get a lot of views because of the title, and I want to make sure the policies are understood.

Keep in mind this is a non profit organization. Nobody is getting paid here.

But we are doing some good things for our members by giving them good pricing, and also our Air Fence Fundraisers are doing good things for our members and for you as a WERA racer.

Last year we purchased fourteen soft barriers for Road Atlanta. You'll have the benefit of having them in place when you ride with us, or when you race with WERA. This year we hope to purchase at least fifteen more. If we are successful that will be almost three hundred feet of wall that will be covered at Road Atlanta by the great people that support this club.

We aren't all bad by the way. We might "Suck", but in a good way.

I know this will get views and attention so let me say this.

Your prices are fair, and I rode with you guys when Road A was $175.
You run a great event.. one of the most organized in the industry.
You have nice people working for you.
You have some very skilled CRs who are very helpful.
I owe NESBA for getting me into this sport back in 2008.
I also donate to the AFF and RFF and appreciate you doing so.

With that said, I'm not debating any of your pricing, people or rules. I just think a late fee on a full priced day is not in good taste. I'm not debating the prices... I'll pay them, and I'll pay full price at the door. I however won't pay full price plus a late fee because someone, somewhere thought 15 days was a good number of days to per-register. Tell me the $ is going to AFF or RFF and I'll gladly pay it. I just don't want to pay for those damn beanbag chairs.

I understand you have to pay upfront. I understand you have expenses that require real cash to cover. I get all of that, and believe me when I say I understand P&L management on a non-traditional model like NESBA. I still don't see why sticking people with a $30 per day charge for registering late is a good thing. I'm also willing to bet that it produces little to no real impact to your bottom line over the course of the year.

That nickel and dime BS aggravates people, and takes $ away from your vendors. People do this sport on a budget. When they spend money somewhere they don't elsewhere. It's simple economics. Tire changes, track-side vending, NESBA SWAG etc. all takes a hit when you pull more from your customer base. Not to mention you have to deal with A-holes like me griping about it.

Not that it means jack, but I'm gripping on behalf of 6 folks who were all in for the weekend, but simply won't pay the fee out of principal. Figure that out across the weekend, and you'd have 6 people at full price, but you're loosing everyone over $180 in arbitrary fees.

 

[JRA]

Thank you for your reasoned response. Good or bad, we take the feedback we hear from people seriously.

 

[dickiedoo]

JRA;273757 wrote: Thank you for your reasoned response. Good or bad, we take the feedback we hear from people seriously.

I appreciate it. Thank you for not making this painful.

 

[HondaGalToo]

dickiedoo;273738 wrote:


Sort of, but perception is reality. The fact that orgs like WERA and STT incentivize consumers to register early with price breaks is one thing, and it works. The difference is I know I will never ever pay more than $95 for a WERA race even if I register within the hour of the event, and I'll never pay more than the posted price on STT's website despite being a walk-up.

I see what you're saying, but it's not really the same thing. Late fees are bad business, and to do it with a model like NESBA is poor practice. That's my opinion.

Yeah, maybe they should re-word it to the more positive "incentive for early registration". Sounds like a reward and not a penalty, even though it amounts to the same thing. Perception is reality, I agree.

 

[HondaGalToo]

Speaking of nesba swag, when is any ever going to be available? I've been asking for sweatshirts and T-shirts for years.