Line at NJMP Lighting ?

[sti2.5ldohc]

Hello all,

I have a question about the proper line on the Lightning course.

At the last day we had there I noticed one rider take an unusual line in the bowl. He would fan out all the way to the outter edge then shoot across to clip apex.

Me like most control riders I see stay about mid track in bowl until heading for apex.

Which is the better line?

 

[mpusch]

Also interested in the discussion on this one. But if it's like any other track, prolly a couple good lines through there.

That said, I got a two-up ride with Kyle last weekend and he took a line like that with me. Came into the bowl hot, trail braked out to the edge, turned in hard and fed in the throttle quick. Very interesting. I'm curious if it was partly because we were on an FZ1. Seems kind of like a point and shoot style. Could you get away with that same approach on a less powerful bike?

That said, the CRs I was with were doing a pretty pronounced inside, out to the edge,and back to the apex. Just didn't seem to the extent kyle did.

 

[HavocCat]

I took this wide line through the bowl, it was explained this way to me by one of the CR's.

By going wide in the bowl, you can get on the throttle sooner to get a better drive out of the bowl, in practice it actually works quite well.

Being able to get on the throttle sooner because you are removing lean angle quicker than riders on the low line, you can drive out under riders on the bowl exit, who are unable to roll on as much throttle as you because they have more lean angle to take the tighter line.

One of the best tips I got all day was that the "bowl entrance was a lot faster than you think".

Going out wide on the bowl allows you to carry more speed in to the bowl, and more speed on exit of bowl.

CR input?

 

[rob92]

Like many things, the "line" is an optimal path, but allows for some variability based on the bike or condition at that time (passing, etc.). For example, an SV650 may carve through a corner using a different line as compared to a bigger bike (liter) which are more point and shoot.

Regarding the bowl at Lightning, it seems the most experienced riders (and by experienced, I mean some really fast club racers, YCRS, and others) tend to double apex the bowl to setup for a great exit. They/we DO NOT go all the way out towards the edge of the track, mid-track tends to describe it best. The intent is to come into the bowl and use just a little trail brake at the mid-track point, slightly trail brake to "set" the bike, help it turn, then use more power on the exit, bike more upright (because you've removed lean angle from the exit), body well off to the inside and drive harder out of the corner. Less lean angle, more power can be applied to the rear wheel. This is especially true on larger bikes.

YCRS teaches patience, focus on the exit.

Rider: Boy, did you see me out-brake that guy into the bowl?
Spouse: Yeah, but he killed you on the exit...​

Which would you rather be?

Sure, there are entry + exit corners, but most corners are exit corners. Sounds like a new thread, perhaps!

 

[vinny337]

What Rob said...

 

[HavocCat]

Kappy towed me through the bowl a couple times, I tried to emulate his line for the rest of the time I was there...

I do remember being wider than other riders, but I remember these same people taking a super tight line through bowl, almost on the white line.

Thanks for the input rob!

 

[rob92]

No problem, that's what we're here for!

I'll add another comment that made me a believer. I rode around the track a few times with Tim Bemisderfer (who was probably running 1:06s or better at the time - and no, I cannot do that!) and I noticed him double apexing the corner. A few months later, Nick and the YCRS gang came to Lightning for the very first time and asked us to show them the way around the track for a few laps. It did not take more than a few laps for the guys to come back in and discuss the various turns. They immediately started double-apexing the bowl and I was kinda blown away that two completely different sets of people came to the same conclusion (double blind, if you will). Of course, I'm sure the YCRS team had studied that track-map over and over as well as watched numerous videos before turning a wheel on that track, but the result is what it is.

 

[Spudstr]

Hello all,

I have a question about the proper line on the Lightning course.

At the last day we had there I noticed one rider take an unusual line in the bowl. He would fan out all the way to the outter edge then shoot across to clip apex.

Me like most control riders I see stay about mid track in bowl until heading for apex.

Which is the better line?

YCRS said its a double apex. mid way through you drift out a little bit and then dive back in..

 

[kappy1000]

Kappy towed me through the bowl a couple times, I tried to emulate his line for the rest of the time I was there...

I do remember being wider than other riders, but I remember these same people taking a super tight line through bowl, almost on the white line.

Thanks for the input rob!

You were definitely rolling sir! Was fun to watch.

 

[HavocCat]

And it was great following you!

Gotta line that up again, that is if you're not to cool to CR for the I group

 

[kappy1000]

And it was great following you!

Gotta line that up again, that is if you're not to cool to CR for the I group

Let's roll!!!

 

[D-Zum]

Kappy's so cool the Red Cross won't let him donate blood. It comes out Fanta Strawberry Slurpee..and there ain't nothin' they can do with it!

 

[glen521]

I took this wide line through the bowl, it was explained this way to me by one of the CR's.

By going wide in the bowl, you can get on the throttle sooner to get a better drive out of the bowl, in practice it actually works quite well.

Being able to get on the throttle sooner because you are removing lean angle quicker than riders on the low line, you can drive out under riders on the bowl exit, who are unable to roll on as much throttle as you because they have more lean angle to take the tighter line.

One of the best tips I got all day was that the "bowl entrance was a lot faster than you think".

Going out wide on the bowl allows you to carry more speed in to the bowl, and more speed on exit of bowl.

CR input?

Like Rob said, we used to all stay low... but since have been shown a better way . I used to be on my knee all the way around at the white line and it felt great but the YCRS school teaches " lean equals risk " and you can accelerate more on the meat of the tire. Now, have to unlearn and try their way.....good part is learning never ends.