Pirelli vs. Bridgestone, what's your opinion?
- Thread starter FlyingTigresse
- Start date
PARedVFRRider
New Member
I'm a big fan of Pirellis and I also agree with Ron as I like to support those who support us. However, I like the feel of the DCIIIs and they have worked well for me so far. The handling is consistent and I'm happy with the wear. The seem to last adequately on the track. Depending on the track I might get two good track days out of them. I've also run Stones once on my VFR and they are good tires as well. But since I have the most experience with Pirellis I would recommend them.
physicistkev
Control Rider
PAR and others - I used only one front DCIII all year. 8 track days, all in A. My rears last 3 days and then I flip them for an additional 2. I should be able to get more out of the rear but I wear a not so good grove in them that makes tipping the bike in entertaining. I am also brutal on rears due to a heavy bike with gobs of torque. I would expect a modern 600's to get 4 or 5 days out of a DCIII rear.
There will be a degradation of grip as the tire ages. On the third day of the rear I am usually 2 seconds of my fastest laps, but the tire is more than capable of putting a smile on my face. You can ride down to the cords, as I have seen at least one CR do. Using the tires longer also give me a chance to feel the bike at the edge of traction. The DCIII's are very predictable and let me know when the front is going to slide or if the rear is going to slide. i love the tire and after a whole year I think I am going to go up to the next step on the rear only since the new front I just put on should last all of next year
There will be a degradation of grip as the tire ages. On the third day of the rear I am usually 2 seconds of my fastest laps, but the tire is more than capable of putting a smile on my face. You can ride down to the cords, as I have seen at least one CR do. Using the tires longer also give me a chance to feel the bike at the edge of traction. The DCIII's are very predictable and let me know when the front is going to slide or if the rear is going to slide. i love the tire and after a whole year I think I am going to go up to the next step on the rear only since the new front I just put on should last all of next year
ronhix
New Member
Diablo Supercorsa is the latest and greatest DOT from Pirelli. Dragon Supercorsa is also a good race tire, but in the opinion of many, not as good as the Diablo. I've run them both, they are both good tires but I prefer the Diablos. If you are tight on funds, I think the Dragons are a bit cheaper.
FlyingTigresse
New Member
Jim, I can't answer your heat cycles question 'cuz I don't know. But, holy wow ... I've learned a ton reading these posts. Appreciate all the feedback. :adore:
jimgl3
Member
trust me, I don't KNOW anymore than you do, but I will say this:
Ron said it best... they all make good tires so support Pirelli and NESBA if you can.
But don't feel bad if you are like me and don't have the gear to change tires at the track on the morning of. I see no choice right now but to buy from my local dealer, who only sells (stocks) Bridgestone. he would not take too kindly to me walking in wanting him to mount and balance hoops i bought from Derek.
Peace
Ron said it best... they all make good tires so support Pirelli and NESBA if you can.
But don't feel bad if you are like me and don't have the gear to change tires at the track on the morning of. I see no choice right now but to buy from my local dealer, who only sells (stocks) Bridgestone. he would not take too kindly to me walking in wanting him to mount and balance hoops i bought from Derek.
Peace
You know, you can really over think this tire situation. Tires are round and black (typically). As long as they are fairly new (this year new), engineered for the track and have some rubber left on them they will perform just fine for the majority of riders and racers out there. Heat cycling CAN be an issue but for most of us it is not as long as we are not talking something truly crazy. Almost everyone will wear the rubber off the tire before they cycle it so much that it won't perform up to trackday standards. If you are racing and need 100% out of the tire (You are winning money racing at this point) then the heat cycles may be an issue. Just my opinion of course. I have ran just about everything with and without warmers.
While I am giving the opinion that no one probably wants (mine), if you don't have the stuff to take your wheels off at the track you need to bite the bullet and get it. We are talking $300 for the stuff including the stands ($400 if you buy the best). It is silly not to go buy this stuff that you will need so frequently. What you will save being able to buy tires at the track and have them mounted and balanced there will pay for the stuff pretty dang quick. When I started I almost chocked at $300 for the nice stands. I tried to work my way around it but finally dropped the dime for them. A decision I have not once regretted. I did buy a cheap ebay stand for $50. It worked but after using a buddies "good stand" I chucked the cheapo unit, $50 wasted. Actually the only purchase decisions I have regretted was when I tried to cheap out.
While I am at it, one more. Tire warmers...not NEEDED, for any tire BUT they can HELP lesson your chance of a 1st lap crash. I had one crash on the first lap. Never thought I would do it. I always laughed at the other idiots that did it. Thought "how the hell did they do that, why the hell did they do that" Then BAM down I went in T5 on the first lap. Felt like a real schmuck. That crash cost me more than a set of warmers. Mind you, you can still crash on the first lap WITH warmers but having them and using them will help protect you from yourself. Not needed as long as you keep you head but from time to time we all loose our head. Personally, I don't buy this warmers make your tires last longer. I've done it both ways and I think that is nonsense.
OK OK 1 more. Buy from Derek (or you regions vendor) and buy whatever he says you need. The guy is not going to srteer you wrong and you won't find a better deal. Consider the convenience of buying there and the fact that he has extensive experience with all the products in that trailer. He has ran every tire and a pace most of us can only dream of and my guess he has ran most of them down to the cords. He knows his stuff. I am certain this it true of all the regions. NESBA, from what I have seen, is not just going to hire someone to sell this stuff at the track. These people are carefully chosen. I personally trust Dereks opinion more that any of the pirelli reps because he know my application and I know he has used the product.
John
#607A
See ya at Barber!
While I am giving the opinion that no one probably wants (mine), if you don't have the stuff to take your wheels off at the track you need to bite the bullet and get it. We are talking $300 for the stuff including the stands ($400 if you buy the best). It is silly not to go buy this stuff that you will need so frequently. What you will save being able to buy tires at the track and have them mounted and balanced there will pay for the stuff pretty dang quick. When I started I almost chocked at $300 for the nice stands. I tried to work my way around it but finally dropped the dime for them. A decision I have not once regretted. I did buy a cheap ebay stand for $50. It worked but after using a buddies "good stand" I chucked the cheapo unit, $50 wasted. Actually the only purchase decisions I have regretted was when I tried to cheap out.
While I am at it, one more. Tire warmers...not NEEDED, for any tire BUT they can HELP lesson your chance of a 1st lap crash. I had one crash on the first lap. Never thought I would do it. I always laughed at the other idiots that did it. Thought "how the hell did they do that, why the hell did they do that" Then BAM down I went in T5 on the first lap. Felt like a real schmuck. That crash cost me more than a set of warmers. Mind you, you can still crash on the first lap WITH warmers but having them and using them will help protect you from yourself. Not needed as long as you keep you head but from time to time we all loose our head. Personally, I don't buy this warmers make your tires last longer. I've done it both ways and I think that is nonsense.
OK OK 1 more. Buy from Derek (or you regions vendor) and buy whatever he says you need. The guy is not going to srteer you wrong and you won't find a better deal. Consider the convenience of buying there and the fact that he has extensive experience with all the products in that trailer. He has ran every tire and a pace most of us can only dream of and my guess he has ran most of them down to the cords. He knows his stuff. I am certain this it true of all the regions. NESBA, from what I have seen, is not just going to hire someone to sell this stuff at the track. These people are carefully chosen. I personally trust Dereks opinion more that any of the pirelli reps because he know my application and I know he has used the product.
John
#607A
See ya at Barber!
jimgl3
Member
John,
Thanks for the insight.
I am working on acquiring all that stuff, including a second set of rims so i don't have to stress Derek out because i can't ride unless he gets 20 sets of hoops slung. But i am 44 years old w/ a wife and 2 children so i have to spread out these acquisitions and i also want stainless brake lines, pads, rear sets, woodcraft engine covers, traxxion dynamics forks and shock and the list goes on, not to mention $200 a track day + gas too and from, etc. and I'm not sure w/ the price of Pirellis that I can beat $270 mounted and balanced by much.
o.k. traxxion dynamics forks and shock may be a little out there, but i do need the oil changed in the forks and shock and that's close to $ 300 right there
if everyone hadn't crawled my ass from jump street about my tires i might not have developed the attitude i had early on about tires. I'm over it now, but it will be a gradual transition.
sorry for the rant!
Thanks for the insight.
I am working on acquiring all that stuff, including a second set of rims so i don't have to stress Derek out because i can't ride unless he gets 20 sets of hoops slung. But i am 44 years old w/ a wife and 2 children so i have to spread out these acquisitions and i also want stainless brake lines, pads, rear sets, woodcraft engine covers, traxxion dynamics forks and shock and the list goes on, not to mention $200 a track day + gas too and from, etc. and I'm not sure w/ the price of Pirellis that I can beat $270 mounted and balanced by much.
o.k. traxxion dynamics forks and shock may be a little out there, but i do need the oil changed in the forks and shock and that's close to $ 300 right there
if everyone hadn't crawled my ass from jump street about my tires i might not have developed the attitude i had early on about tires. I'm over it now, but it will be a gradual transition.
sorry for the rant!
A modern completely stock sport bike will get you a long ways. Get your tools and stuff to work on it before you start modifying a bunch of stuff. Derek won't be inconvienced until after 1:00. He is amazing at getting this stuf done fast.
It is interesting to do this for a while and look back. I have learned a ton. I did some things wrong and got a few right. You really don't need a lot of stuff to do this. Tools, stands, shade, good tires...that is about it really. The people who are fast are not fast because of the modifications to their bike. Those things may help but the fast guys are going to be amazing on totally stock bike too.
It is interesting to do this for a while and look back. I have learned a ton. I did some things wrong and got a few right. You really don't need a lot of stuff to do this. Tools, stands, shade, good tires...that is about it really. The people who are fast are not fast because of the modifications to their bike. Those things may help but the fast guys are going to be amazing on totally stock bike too.
ronhix
New Member
Well said, I agree. At the track day level, bike mods can be a distraction more than a help.
Another thought on tire warmers.
How much does track time cost you per lap? Without tire warmers, you are giving up at least 1 lap per session at best, which is at least 7 laps a day waisted on rolling around the track for the sole purpose of putting heat into your tires. if it is a cold day, maybe it takes 2 laps to heat the tires? Depending on how many track days you do, it may be a cheaper solution to buy a set of tire warmers which allows you to enjoy EVERY lap afforded to you at a track day.
Add in the mental edge you get from KNOWING your tires are hot and tire warmers start to make a bit more sense.
Just something to think about.
Lars
Member
Very well said Ron
That was exact reason I got my tire warmers.
‘NoBull’ in her always tell me, if there is anything that you don’t feel right, then don’t waste valuable track time on it – Very good point.
I normally wasted 2 laps on warming up tires and another 1-2 lap to get in to the same rhythm as I had in the end of previous lap.
I got 6 TD’s out of my first pair of Dragons (yes I am using the rear all the way to the edge), with tire warmers and I am just a mortal B gr rider. I asked more knowledge tire guys during my wear and they all told that the wear look fine. I check my tires pressure after nearly every session to keep it right.
To Ron: To me it looks like even B gr riders can benefit from race tires.
Have a great weekend
Lars
That was exact reason I got my tire warmers.
‘NoBull’ in her always tell me, if there is anything that you don’t feel right, then don’t waste valuable track time on it – Very good point.
I normally wasted 2 laps on warming up tires and another 1-2 lap to get in to the same rhythm as I had in the end of previous lap.
I got 6 TD’s out of my first pair of Dragons (yes I am using the rear all the way to the edge), with tire warmers and I am just a mortal B gr rider. I asked more knowledge tire guys during my wear and they all told that the wear look fine. I check my tires pressure after nearly every session to keep it right.
To Ron: To me it looks like even B gr riders can benefit from race tires.
Have a great weekend
Lars
Sklossmonster
New Member
A couple of more things to consider in this discussion.
1. Regarding the use of tire warmers and heat cycles, it is my firm belief that if you use race rubber you should also use tire warmers, ESPECIALLY if you're in the Beginner and Intermeditae groups, and here's why.
Everytime you heat cycle the tire, you are elevating it's operating temperature. If you put enough heat cycles into a tire, you are effectively "hardening" the compound. A White becomes a Blue, a Blue becomes a Green, a Yellow becomes a Red, etc... More importantly, if you are running at a pace that allows you to get multiple days out of a tire, ie "B" or "I", then you're putting something like 14 heat cycles per event on your tires.
Therefore, when you go heading out onto the track on your race tires that have three events on them already, and it's an unseasonably cool morning (Spring/Fall) You may find that tire with 42 heat cycles on it will NOT get up to operating temperature before putting you on your head. Mostly because it was designed for one or two heat cycles, if you get my meaning.
2. This track world is all about rider confidence. It's so mental I can hardly believe it. The more confident you are in your equipment, the faster you can go. If tire warmers help you feel more confident, they are worth their weight in gold.
Those things being said, you should definitely support your regional NESBA vendor, and not order out of region, or out of NESBA, whenever possible.
Support the people and products who support you. It's good business and good karma.
Oh yeah, one more thing ... Chickenhawks rule! Because they make me feel like a god on the very first lap
1. Regarding the use of tire warmers and heat cycles, it is my firm belief that if you use race rubber you should also use tire warmers, ESPECIALLY if you're in the Beginner and Intermeditae groups, and here's why.
Everytime you heat cycle the tire, you are elevating it's operating temperature. If you put enough heat cycles into a tire, you are effectively "hardening" the compound. A White becomes a Blue, a Blue becomes a Green, a Yellow becomes a Red, etc... More importantly, if you are running at a pace that allows you to get multiple days out of a tire, ie "B" or "I", then you're putting something like 14 heat cycles per event on your tires.
Therefore, when you go heading out onto the track on your race tires that have three events on them already, and it's an unseasonably cool morning (Spring/Fall) You may find that tire with 42 heat cycles on it will NOT get up to operating temperature before putting you on your head. Mostly because it was designed for one or two heat cycles, if you get my meaning.
2. This track world is all about rider confidence. It's so mental I can hardly believe it. The more confident you are in your equipment, the faster you can go. If tire warmers help you feel more confident, they are worth their weight in gold.
Those things being said, you should definitely support your regional NESBA vendor, and not order out of region, or out of NESBA, whenever possible.
Support the people and products who support you. It's good business and good karma.
Oh yeah, one more thing ... Chickenhawks rule! Because they make me feel like a god on the very first lap
itaintall
New Member
Another, less popular, choice is Avon Viper Supersports. I tried a set at Barber and was very pleased with their performance. They're a LOT cheaper than most other TD tires too. A set cost me about $221.00. They were only sliding around on the first lap and a half of the first session, and then worked great. Just MHO, and another option for you.
Jeff
Jeff