PittRace "Red Flags" and the kink, questions?

[CaseyAlbert]

On my way home I was on the phone chatting with my son and saying how I was glad "Mom" didn't attend this weekends "Red Flag" outing. On a very serious note, my heart goes out to all that might have gone home injured and I heard a rumor that one of our comrades was severely injured.....

Very happy to just read that "TBelf" came out of it what sounds like relatively uninjured(bike excluded).

Is there anything that can be done(put the "Moto-America dog-leg in) to reduce incidents at the kink? My opinion with my son was that might cause more problems for "Track Day," and his was that it would help.... You guys(Orange shirts) probably know the answer. Do you think the owners would like to spend a half a million or so to add some more track down there?

Many Thanks to all of you "Orange Shirts" that were likely pulling your hair out this past weekend! I know we have been at a PittRace weekend where we never saw a Red Flag. Hopefully we used up this years supply.

 

[jonobrin]

Numerous people passed in that section of the track, even in Sunday's final session. People aren't listening. I know I have at least one of the passes on film. Haven't pulled the memory card yet.

 

[rpm894]

How many of the T16 crashes involved more than one bike?

 

[Laszlo]

The power of the law sadly is often in the frequency of enforcement. N2 runs great events, with positive and constructive energy; in situations like this, some enforcement would help. From PittRace’s perspective, I can see a number of reasons they would not want to put in a permanent kink (e.g., cars, etc.).

 

[tad158]

Road America has a motorcycle only chicane right after the carousel, so that the bikes are not headed straight at a wall for the next corner. I've ridden it, and didn't see any one "miss the chicane" and go straight. The RA chicane is ~700ft long, which is much bigger and in the opposite direction than what they put in at Pitt.

When it was Beaver Run, north track, what did they do? This is the original section of track, so they would have roughly the same pace? Or are the bikes just faster these days and smooth pavement ups the pace too? Or are we just more dumb as a whole?

 

[NothingClever]

We shouldn’t rely solely on the CRs to police ourselves. They can only see so much.

I think we should find those folks that cut across the blend line, put their arm up way too late, and pass in the no-passing zone to politely remind them of the rules. It’s always best, IMO, to briefly explain the reason behind the rule and relate it to them.

If the violator reacts like a chump despite our best diplomacy, then we can share that (along with the original incident) with the CR and set him/her up for a more efficient outcome. The CR will be cued to that rider (number, make and color of bike, color of leathers, etc) and, if the violating rider does the same thing again, once the CR gets a hold of him, he either complies or he leaves.

If we (regular lowly riders) don’t give it our best shot, then the violator just goes about his merry way lap after lap while we ponder lap after lap why the CRs didn’t see what we saw. I think if we addressed just half of the violations we see over a season, our enjoyment and the club’s reputation and appeal would only increase.

That much said, I concur with @Laszlo and @CaseyAlbert - N2 runs great events. N2 on its worst day is heads and a shoulders above a club somewhere in the southeast corner of the country that is a complete train wreck (on their best day).

 

[HondaGalToo]

It was a rough weekend. There is no passing in the kink, but the rule was violated in all groups. Not on purpose, just some bad decision making. One incident involved two bikes coming together. Two were single bike incidents. From what I recall.

When we ran the north course only when it was BeaverRun, we had some incidents there. The armco has actually been pushed back as much as possible and we now have air fence. I think the bikes have just gotten faster. And people need to make better decisions. It's a trackday.

I don't know how I feel about running the MotoAmerica chicane there. I've done it with YCRS, it's a very quick, short right-left-right and I think it's single file. Might cause a different problem. I'm no expert and will leave that to the directors to decide.

Just my random thoughts. No one goes out with the intention to hit someone, but riders need to have better situational awareness and make better decisions. We're all guilty of infractions. We just get away with some of them unscathed.

 

[Laszlo]

We shouldn’t rely solely on the CRs to police ourselves. They can only see so much.

I think we should find those folks that cut across the blend line, put their arm up way too late, and pass in the no-passing zone to politely remind them of the rules. It’s always best, IMO, to briefly explain the reason behind the rule and relate it to them.

If the violator reacts like a chump despite our best diplomacy, then we can share that (along with the original incident) with the CR and set him/her up for a more efficient outcome. The CR will be cued to that rider (number, make and color of bike, color of leathers, etc) and, if the violating rider does the same thing again, once the CR gets a hold of him, he either complies or he leaves.

If we (regular lowly riders) don’t give it our best shot, then the violator just goes about his merry way lap after lap while we ponder lap after lap why the CRs didn’t see what we saw. I think if we addressed just half of the violations we see over a season, our enjoyment and the club’s reputation and appeal would only increase.

100% this, particularly the self-policing. What I saw in Novice was not malicious, but quasi-selfish to selfish riders, very few, but those few had high magnitude bad reactions they left in their wake when others then stomped on the brake, causing a quick cascade downstream of quick and abrupt (to use the YCRS term) braking. That's not great. I'd love to have seen and known more than just 2 people in Novice, for example, who hot pitted (and that two includes me).

 

[Motofun352]

I had more riders ask for an eval this past weekend then I normally do. Folks feeling their wheaties and trying to hard? This is a thinking sport, ego will hurt you. Perhaps Rossi can POOOSH but for the rest of us, be careful. For me, my best days came when I stopped looking for a bump and just rode for the fun of it.

 

[D-Zum]

You should be considering a pass on another rider about 3 or 4 corners before actually passing.

And then there’s the BIG question that goes with it.

“Is it worth it?”

It’s a track day.

Even in a race, you gotta remember that finishing is as or more important than position. So pass like everyone has to drive home and go to work on Monday regardless.

 

[Otto Man]

I haven't ridden the MA chichane as much as some on here, but I had a weekend of riding with it, and can say that it would do nothing but add chaos and confusion to the majority of track day riders and it would introduce its own set of problems.

 

[virtualsolitude]

I think the chicane would be more problematic. TBH, I never noticed the chicane when I rode PIRC last year. But here's a 5-second video of the chicane at PIRC:

And here's the map:

 

[TimTheAsian]

^ What you don't see in that video is that chicane comes up out of nowhere, even when you're expecting it. At a track day, imagine the amount of people hitting the curbing and going down and blowing the chicane entirely and rejoining with "x" amount more mph than the people that took it properly.

 

[MK3Brent]

Or are we just more dumb as a whole?

Hey... I resemble that remark.

 

[bmart]

Back in the day, passes in "the kink", regardless of the track that contained it, were verboten. Think CMP, VIR North, Road Atlanta. Time went on and the rule was removed from the Advanced group. More time went on and it was removed completely. There are a lot of places to pass, including cleanly/completely before and after these kinks, through good planning.

Because the old way is still in my head, I try hard to not pass at or near apexes of kinks. It is just track day and we're supposed to be having fun. I do not enjoy being scared at speed or making others scared at speed. And still...it happens on occassion.

 

[Backmarker]

I think the chicane would be more problematic. TBH, I never noticed the chicane when I rode PIRC last year. But here's a 5-second video of the chicane at PIRC:

That is the old config of what used to be there. A new tighter chicane will be in place this year. I had the pleasure of riding the new chicane back in June and no way do I think a group of novice riders would be able to negotiate it. It's blind and tight. In fact, I don't think half of "A" group could consistently make it threw there at pace. I blew it on multiple attempts before I eventually made it.

 

[d4jsmit]

My humble opinion- I think we need cones/ markers beside the track to make it clearer. I too, am one of the “not worth being stupid” folks, but I’ve talked to people after a session, and they said “yeah, I though is as gonna get you before the kink, and it just didn’t work out” and also have heard “no, that was after the kink” (where apparently “after” equates to 2’ past the apex.

I totally agree that we all need to own this. But perhaps setting up a camera there, for review at the end of the day, and an official warning to offenders…

 

[tad158]

Well, they will be running the MotoA new chicane with the permanent curbing today and for the races this weekend, including the long endurance race. So I guess we will hear from them on what it is like, and maybe if we will be using that in the future.

 

[CaseyAlbert]

I also made a pass beyond T15 on that "nasty" day after thinking I was going to get it done earlier.... I chastised myself and left the track for the remainder of that session. Cameras, expulsion, flogging, etc I don't believe are the answers. We all "know" we are not racing, but we all know we are trying to better ourselves to the greatest extent possible.
I don't believe there is anybody(okay, possibly 1 tenth of 1%) out there that has wanton disrespect for his fellow riders. I flew airplanes for a living, and if a runway was closed, they put a "BIG RED X" out there. People still land on closed runways, not often, but it still happens all over the world.
If the new "chicane" is put in, I think everybody will use it, and if someone doesn't make it, they at least can stay out the grass and do better next time around.
I also don't believe that the vast majority are intentionally disregarding the rules.

Nuff said.

 

[MK3Brent]

Boy I puckered for the riders in MotoA that hit this chicane and went soaring into the air. Sheesh on a leash. Be careful out there, friends.