Question regarding clutch

[ceramicsdude]

Hi. My track bike is a 2000 CBR929rr with about 6,000 miles on it. I was at Jennings last weekend and my clutch started slipping so I took the old clutch out and ordered a new clutch kit from EBC Brakes. The springs were under spec so I purchased their SRK Street Racer Clutch Kit which includes the heavier springs (along with new steels). I am not the original owner of my bike, but I believe that the clutch was the original O.E.M.

Here is my question.

I was checking the new friction plates and steels on a surface plate with a height gage against the old ones to make sure the stack height was greater than I was replacing...and I noticed that one (1) of the new friction plates from the SRK had a larger I.D. (inside diameter) than the other friction plates. I checked the old friction plates that came out of the bike, and all of them have the same I.D.

So, my new SRK friction plates are the same I.D. except for 1 of them...which is larger.

I called EBC and they couldn't help me much and told me to call Honda. Does this friction plate (with the larger I.D.) go on last on the assembly when I put the the friction plates and the new steel discs back in???????

Outside my area of expertise here...

I appreciate comments if anyone knows where the larger I.D. friction plate goes in order of assembly.

Thanks

 

[JGardy_781]

Not sure about your Honda, but on several suzukis I've replaced clutches on, the first plate in the clutch pack (nearest the center of the bike) has had a larger inner diameter than the rest, and had this narrow washer/spring thing that took up the additional space towards the center of the clutch left by the larger ID of that single plate. I used a Barnett kit for the last replacement, and I think the replacement pack (with fresh friction and steel plates) didn't come with a new washer. Maybe check the parts fiche or service manual for your bike to see if there's a similar piece that should have been in there.

 

[hoppa2k6]

I've tried a few aftermarket clutch kits and have had nothing but issues with them on my 1000rr's. went back with new OEM Honda packs and everything has been smooth sailing...especially with the Yoyodyne slipper in it now!

If I were you I'd sell off that kit and buy OEM if you can... The aftermarket ones always gave me grief when it came to stack height...

 

[JRA]

It's almost certainly the way it's meant to be. As mentioned Suzuki clutches have one fiber plate that is different than all the rest, although I don't know why, and installing all the exact same plates in the clutch pack (without using the one that is different) never changed the performance that I could tell. It is most likely the first or past fiber plate you install. A service manual would be your friend here.

 

[cbr_600rr_freak]

Dunno about the older Honda's, but I just installed a new STM slipper in my 08 CBR and all the friction and steel plates were the same size. REMEMBER TO SOAK YOUR FRICTION PLATES FOR AT LEAST 24HRS BEFORE INSTALLATION IN OIL.

 

[dimitri]

cbr_600rr_freak;266631 wrote: Dunno about the older Honda's, but I just installed a new STM slipper in my 08 CBR and all the friction and steel plates were the same size. REMEMBER TO SOAK YOUR FRICTION PLATES FOR AT LEAST 24HRS BEFORE INSTALLATION IN OIL.

Perhaps someone changed the clutch pack before you?
According to the service manual for the 600rr, the 1st friction plate that goes into the clutch pack (innermost) is different than the rest since it has a judder spring that sits inside it. This supposed to make it easier to find neutral if I remember correctly. Lots of people change this when installing the slipper because there is a chance for the judder spring to interfere with the slipper clutch slipping.

OP, Make sure that judder spring hasn't stuck to the basket (usually does) if your bike has the same setup.

+1 on checking the service manual.

 

[cbr_600rr_freak]

dimitri;266655 wrote: Perhaps someone changed the clutch pack before you?
According to the service manual for the 600rr, the 1st friction plate that goes into the clutch pack (innermost) is different than the rest since it has a judder spring that sits inside it. This supposed to make it easier to find neutral if I remember correctly. Lots of people change this when installing the slipper because there is a chance for the judder spring to interfere with the slipper clutch slipping.

OP, Make sure that judder spring hasn't stuck to the basket (usually does) if your bike has the same setup.

+1 on checking the service manual.

I am 2nd owner. Had it since Hardly any
Miles on it. So I wouldn't think anyone would have changed it. I'm looking at my Honda service manual now and I don't see where it says they are different. Where is this info at?

 

[dimitri]

cbr_600rr_freak;266657 wrote: I am 2nd owner. Had it since Hardly any
Miles on it. So I wouldn't think anyone would have changed it. I'm looking at my Honda service manual now and I don't see where it says they are different. Where is this info at?

Since I dont have the manual right in front of me, here is the oem parts fiche,

http://s16991.50belowcommerce.com/oempartfinder.htm#/Honda/CBR600RR_2A_(08)_MOTORCYCLE%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_JH2PC404-8M100001_TO_JH2PC404-8M109999/CLUTCH/CBR600RR-08-JPN-2A/2Y14MFJ7MFJ4E0600B

Note that the 1st/innermost friction plate(9) is a different part number than the rest. Also the judder spring and seat that I am talking about are parts 6&13.

 

[cbr_600rr_freak]

I just don't see it in my book. Ill call the parts place who sold me the friction plates and ask. Def worth looking into.

 

[Dunham]

On the 600rr the outer fiber is different too. When I installed my slipper I eliminated the smaller fiber with the the judder springs and replaced it with another outer one

 

[cbr_600rr_freak]

Good call. I called the parts place and try said yes. One is slightly thicker. It suppose to put more pressure on the spring to make the clutch quiter. They said it should not make a difference though if not done right. Ill see. :/

 

[JRA]

Dunham;266670 wrote: On the 600rr the outer fiber is different too. When I installed my slipper I eliminated the smaller fiber with the the judder springs and replaced it with another outer one

Same thing I did to my Suzuki's when I installed slippers. It never made any difference that I could tell. Isn't it nice that slippers are standard now and no need to spend $600 on an after market clutch.

 

[ceramicsdude]

Here is a picture from fireblades.org of someone rebuilding their clutch on a 2001 cbr929rr. It shows the first ring beingsimilar to what my new ring looks like...and it has a metal ring on the inside on it. Is this the judder spring???

 

[ceramicsdude]

Good picture for reference

Here is a picture I found from fireblade.org.

This was posted by someone rebuilding athe clutch on a 2001 cbr929rr. Mine is a 2000.

This is the exact thing that I am seeing with the new clutch that I got. The friction plate on top has a larger I.D. (same as mine) but I do NOT have the metal ring on the inside of it. Is this the judder spring????

I called a bike shop today and they didn't see this on the microfish drawings that they had. I own a hi-tech ceramics shop and am exptemely versed in machining. If I make a judder spring, what should the thickness be relative to the thickness of the friction plate?

Real world question for you guys....Do I really even need it???

For whatever reason, my 2000 did not come with a judder spring for someone replaced the clutch within 6K miles andput a normal friction plate in.

Any suggestions????

 

[ceramicsdude]

Searching "judder springs" on the web, I've just discovered that there is a recall on all 2000 929's and early 2001 929's that involve the judder spring and other clutch related components.

Maybe I'll just take it into Honda and let them screw with it. The recall involves a new basket as well and I don't really want to try to pull all of this apart.

 

[JGardy_781]

ceramicsdude;266722 wrote: This is the exact thing that I am seeing with the new clutch that I got. The friction plate on top has a larger I.D. (same as mine) but I do NOT have the metal ring on the inside of it. Is this the judder spring???

For what it's worth, that's exactly what my Suzuki clutch packs have looked like - the innermost plate with the larger I.D. and the washer thing that goes inside it (apparently, called a "judder spring" - learn something new every day). Looks identical to the picture.