slow hands- trailing the clutch

TripleThreat

TripleThreat

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Jul 11, 2008
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Don't forget to account for cable slack when watching that video. I don't think that he has the clutch engaged the entire time his hand is covering the lever. It looks like it is pulled in just enough that it is resting at the engagement point and taking the slack out of the cable, not actually engaging the clutch for a large portion of the time.

Jeff
 
Backmarker

Backmarker

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Jul 12, 2008
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There is no slipping of the clutch there. None of that was under hard braking were I'm sure the slipper would have activated anyway.

He is just covering the lever for a extended time after down shifting.

Good video.....:D
 
dj life

dj life

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Jul 12, 2008
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Im going to see rich tomorrow i'll ask him if he was just covering or slipping it slightly...
 
Rick Johnson

Rick Johnson

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Jul 11, 2008
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I was chatting with some racers about this.On the last down shift they don't let
the clutch out all the way.Letting it slip alittle until the apex of the turn then slowly
releasing it.You don't want to release it to quick or it will upset the suspension.
This will help with rear will hop do to engine braking.They say is not really
needed with a slipper clutch but some still do this.It really helps for those of
us that don't have a slipper clutch.I haven't tried this yet but I asked about it
on the CCS forum and this is what I was told.;)
 
danch

danch

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Jul 12, 2008
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J. Pridmore teaches that technique, or did a couple years ago. I have enough to think about with the brake, so I got a slipper clutch!
 
danch

danch

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Jul 12, 2008
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dlockhart5x;37695 wrote: A very good vid showing this technique

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qkRiytX5lQ

It is interesting to see how long he maintains clutch lever pressure on some corner entries.

I am really going to have to try to learn to do this when riding my Mille Vs my RS250. (I hate engine braking)
Click to expand...

When I rode one of Murph's apes a couple years ago, I wasn't real impressed with the stock slipper. It let a lot of engine braking through, then all the sudden I'd be freewheeling into the corner. Kept freaking me out. The yoyodyne part I have in the 675 is much nicer - some engine braking, but never enough to cause hop or instability - I can downshift at a pretty good lean and not worry.
 
dj life

dj life

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Jul 12, 2008
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Well i talked to Rich today and Rick pretty much nailed it on the head. Rich said he used it as a "brake" as well. He said that as he downshifts the last time he doesn't fully let it out and the clutch slips ever so slightly so that it doesn't let the tire get loose or upset the suspension. He said that he doesn't release the clutch fully till the apex. He also said that this is not done on every corner but on the tighter turns its really a great way to keep everything nice and stable.

Chris
 
dlockhart5x

dlockhart5x

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danch;37911 wrote: When I rode one of Murph's apes a couple years ago, I wasn't real impressed with the stock slipper. It let a lot of engine braking through, then all the sudden I'd be freewheeling into the corner. Kept freaking me out. The yoyodyne part I have in the 675 is much nicer - some engine braking, but never enough to cause hop or instability - I can downshift at a pretty good lean and not worry.
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The stock slipper on the ape is vacume operated and only releases when the throttle is closed all the way. A bit funky to say the least. The big twin is very touchy in on/off situations. I did the old Keith Code trick and cranked the idle way up and it became much more ridable to me. I still only have a half dozen or so sessions on the Mille because when the 250 is on, nothing comes close in the fun factor calculus. This year I am going to try and spend my moring sessions on the big bike and learning this clutching may make it a bit more fun. The afternoons when the track is nice and warm will be reserved for hair on fire corner speed with the 250. :haha:( and picking on honda 400's)
 
ctrank

ctrank

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Jul 12, 2008
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When I took Jason's STAR school a few years back, his use of the clutch was primarily focused on two things:

a) being SMOOTH
b) covering the clutch

For the SMOOTH part, the clutch is just like every other control on the motorcycle. It's not an on/off switch. You see Jason's hands are slow to release the lever in all cases.

Jason also talked about covering the clutch until he gets back on the gas just in case the bike slips out of gear or popped into the wrong gear. With his fingers covering the clutch, he could quickly pull in the clutch if either of these happened.
 
ronhix

ronhix

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Jul 10, 2008
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This works great for me. Since I don't blip and even though the Big GSXR does have a slipper clutch, it is still very easy to upset the chassis if you are not smooth with the clutch release.

In addition, by timing that last clutch release before the apex you can use the clutch much like a rear brake. Coupled with trail braking on the front brake lever, this gets the bike down to the apex nicely without slowing down too early on corner entry.

The last benefit of this is keeping the RPM's from spiking so much on aggressive downshifts. At tracks like Road America, Road Atlanta, Daytona, etc there are corners where we you drop from full out 6th gear down to 2nd (perhaps even 1st). The rev limiter will effectively protect the engine from over reving when accelerating. However, the rev limiter does not work at all when the back tire is driving the engine (like on downshifts). Aggressively dumping the clutch can lead to blown motors if you are not careful

Great vid Dave. Discussions like this really help us all as we begin to start a new season!
 
B

benprobst

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Feb 20, 2009
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ronhix;38088 wrote: This works great for me. Since I don't blip and even though the Big GSXR does have a slipper clutch, it is still very easy to upset the chassis if you are not smooth with the clutch release.

In addition, by timing that last clutch release before the apex you can use the clutch much like a rear brake. Coupled with trail braking on the front brake lever, this gets the bike down to the apex nicely without slowing down too early on corner entry.

The last benefit of this is keeping the RPM's from spiking so much on aggressive downshifts. At tracks like Road America, Road Atlanta, Daytona, etc there are corners where we you drop from full out 6th gear down to 2nd (perhaps even 1st). The rev limiter will effectively protect the engine from over reving when accelerating. However, the rev limiter does not work at all when the back tire is driving the engine (like on downshifts). Aggressively dumping the clutch can lead to blown motors if you are not careful

Great vid Dave. Discussions like this really help us all as we begin to start a new season!
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Big +1. In the vid he is def. carrying the clutch all of the way to the apex. I do it often, and its a great way to control chassis inflection. Like Ron said it acts like a rear brake clming the chassis and helping bring it down into the proper RPM range. Riding 600's or a stock SV means you need to be exiting corners within a 1-3 thousand RPM range, and lots of times corners wont allow the proper exit gear at the entry, making the clutch action displayed above crucial. I also never blip the throttle.

Hey Ron, heading to Barber?
 
C

chambers

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Feb 9, 2009
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dlock, thank you posting that video. It makes me realize how much there is to learn. I've been reading so many different threads on things I never even
thought about, or knew about.

I hope some of you folks are willing to work with me when I get to Barber.
 
Rick Johnson

Rick Johnson

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Jul 11, 2008
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I can't wait to try this technique.I also do not blip.I found it takes away some of
my concentration.I am pretty good at late braking but when I try and blip at the
I find I am not able to brake as late.I was usually able to pass guys in front of
me in turn 1 and 7 at VIR while they were blipping I went buy them on the brakes.I
think this will help me for sure since I was getting some rear wheel hop right
before T1.I would get it settle down before turn in but sometimes it got a little
hairy.One month before my first TD and I can't wait.
 
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