So, I did something dumb.

physicistkev

Control Rider
So, I wanted to get some work done on the bike before the season. Makbilt came recommended from several people in the past and I got some trackside support from them last year. It went well so I figured I would get them to give some love to the used Penske shock I got and work over the front end. Also, maybe a new Bazzaz fuel controller to replace the PCIII I have had some issues with.

I drove up there this morning with my dad and realized, about an hour into the 3 hour trip, that it’s 9 degrees outside and I don’t have antifreeze in the bike. Gaaaaaaaaaah. By then, it appeared to be to late. Couldn’t get the bike started, which was probably good as the frozen pump would have likely destroyed itself had I got it started. Not to mention any other number of things that would have gone wrong. The exterior hoses all had crunchy ice in them. :(

At that point, I had a choice. Continue on, realizing that the damage was already done or go home and see if I could stop anything bad from happening. The bike sat in my 30 something degree garage all night, so the bike started out very cold. After we talked about it, we pressed on thinking that, it was already frozen and any damage that was going to occur was already there. I was mildly upset at myself, since this was a simple mistake that I should have caught, but realized that it’s just something I overlooked. Having ridden an air/oil cooled bike for 15 years, I never worried about freezing temps. I only got the ZX about 5 years ago, so I just wasn't paying attention. Not much to do about it now.

When I got to Markbilt, Jim was great. We got the bike off of the back of the truck, I explained what I originally wanted done and also, now the motor needed to be checked for any water jacket damage. He said he would let me know later this week what the deal was and we would go from there. Hopefully, there is no water jacket damage and all things can progress as normal. If there is, it gets repaired/replaced and things will progress as normal.

In the end, I can’t be upset about it, since that’s not going to change anything. I can only react to what we find. Lesson learned though.

Has anyone experience this? If so, what was the outcome of your situation.
 

Emerson

BobbleHeadMoto
Control Rider
ATP/3C
Fortunately on the GSXR, the head has freeze plugs which pop out when the water freezes (I've had this happen before) . Hopefully they did their job and popped out. Only other thing I can think of is that the pump messed up when you turned the engine over.
 

physicistkev

Control Rider
Thanks Emerson. I read about the plugs, but wasn't quite sure if that is what they were designed for. I am fine with having to replace the water pump if it did actually get damaged. Panic decision on my part. If I could get it going, I was just going to let it idle in the back as we drove. Shouldn't overheat and I couldn't think of anything else to do at the time to keep it warm.

What about the radiator?
 

Emerson

BobbleHeadMoto
Control Rider
ATP/3C
Be glad it didn't start. If it would have started you would have mixed oil and water and then it would have overheated and then you'd be looking for a new engine for sure.
 

D-Swens

Member
I purchased a GSXR in this condition, from a guy who swore he cracked his block. The water had mixxed in the oil, and it was a mess to clean up. Entire motor had to be pulled apart and cleaned extensively, but no damage. So, good excuse to clean and rebuild motor...
 

physicistkev

Control Rider
So the verdict is in. Freeze plugs popped and pushed coolant into the head.

No permanent damage. No motor work was necessary.

Drain the oil and coolant, flush the systems, press the plugs back in and fill with appropriate fluids. Warm it up and test it on the dyno to make sure the oil and coolant systems hold under pressure. Which they did :)

So, that was a lesson that cost me a few hundred dollars to learn. It does look like there are at least 2 products that perform a level of "anti-freeze" that are CCS/WERA race legal. Looks like I will be using one of those.

I did get a few things for the ride this off season, nothing spectacular, but a few upgrades should make it a bit more fun to ride.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
Whew, glad it worked out well and your weren't forced to get that supersport upgrade, LOL.

Those coolants/antifreeze that are CCS/WERA legal, what are they? I seem to recall CCS allowing something WERA didn't, but perhaps that's changed. The other, more important question (at least here) is are they coolants that N2 will allow in the Advanced class? Our manual currently states no engine ice or evans coolants....(applies to Advanced only).
 

NegativeCamber

Bob
Control Rider
I think this is the coolant that physiciskev is referring too: http://www.sportbiketrackgear.com/liquid-performance-ice-water-racing-coolant/

This is pre-mixed coolant (i.e. distilled water and waterwetter), NOT antifreeze. It says on the back of the label "Do not use in temperatures below 32 degrees." (also, there are ice cubes in the graphics of the container :)

I had that stuff in my bike thinking that it was 'antifreeze'. A few years ago I tried to turn my R6 on after a sub-20 degree night in a trailer and heard a clunk (long story short, the peddle shaft in the water pump broke off since the 'antifreeze' was frozen)

Judy- I would imagine that it is 'legal' for Advanced because it is non-glycol based... because it offers no freeze protection.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
Thanks, but Kev was talking about using something that provided freeze protection that was still legal, and I wasn't aware of anything that N2 would allow.
Your link doesn't take me to STG, btw ☺
 

NegativeCamber

Bob
Control Rider
Ha, sorry Judy. Tried the link on my phone (tapatalk app) and it took me to something different, unless you are looking for a deal on skiing equipment :/ Its working on my computer though. I've attached a pic of what it looks like.

I hope that there is something that is race/N2 A legal that provides freeze protection.

Kev, could you provide a link of the products you are talking about?
 

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HondaGalToo

Control Rider
All the ones I've seen that offer freeze protection are glycol based. From what I've read, they aren't acceptable, doesn't matter that it's propylene glycol instead of traditional antifreeze ethylene glycol. But I could be wrong
 

NegativeCamber

Bob
Control Rider
I'm pretty sure that is the case. Easy enough to put engine ice in during the winter off season then swap it out with water wetter in the spring.
 

Dave561

Control Rider
Director
CCS allows propylene glycol. And that does have antifreeze properties. It is food safe and easier to clean than ethylene glycol.

At this point in time, N2 and WERA do not allow propylene glycol.
 

physicistkev

Control Rider
I will get the products when I go and get the bike in a week or so. I didn't delve to deep into the products, it was just a mention from the guys at Markbilt. Maybe I was mistaken in what was said. Wouldn't be the first time. If there isn't anything then I will need to add an "antifreeze" during the off season. I will let you all know, good or bad.
 

cyclox

New Member
I drain the cooling system after the last race of the season. Of course, I'm usually pulling the engine out the bike over the winter for a rebuild anyhow...
 

wmhjr

Grandpa
Control Rider
Just drained the R6 before heading down to Jennings. Then drained it again before bringing it back up. It's easier and cheaper IMHO to just use distilled water and drain it for those relatively rare occasions and to then use good race coolant from Spring to fall. It only takes 10 minutes to pop the lower plastic and drain the bike.
 

andykurz

Member
I hear from a very reputable engine builder that water + wetter is a bad combination and leads to substantial rust buildup if not flushed very regularly. Like throughout the season regularly. As an alternative, there are race legal coolants that are also antifreeze. I think Engine Ice (http://www.engineice.com) is the most common.

I always ran distilled water and wetter, but am switching to Engine Ice this year.
 
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