Thread Tap Larger or TimeSert?

[Gorecki]

My frame slider bolt holes into the frame are 6mm. On my last fall down and go BOOM one of the frame sliders snapped into pieces! The bolt broke off and though I didn't have much trouble getting it out, I can see now some of the threads are chewed.

So my question is should I :

Get a same size (6mm) timesert kit and replace the sliders with the intended 6mm? (Kit's pricy and the bolt already snapped once)

OR

Pass go and thread tap the holes out to say 8mm, get different sliders with a little thicker mounting bolt? (cheaper in the end, but is it the best idea)


Some guidance would be appreciated! :adore:

 

[avizpls]

Pass go. Cheaper and better, right? As long as there is material for the larger tap, that's how I'd do it. Who wants puny 6mm bolts holing the bike up anyways?

 

[Mikey75702]

They might have designed it for 6 mm bolts though.... Never know, you go bigger it COULD be a problem during the next crash.... You never know, the frame might not be strong enough and bend/break.


Oh, where are you at in md? If you are local I have a kit that should work.

 

[Gorecki]

avizpls;201113 wrote: Pass go. Cheaper and better, right? As long as there is material for the larger tap, that's how I'd do it. Who wants puny 6mm bolts holing the bike up anyways?

That's EXACTLY my thinking. There is plenty of meat around the bolt hole and 2mm increase I highly doubt would cause anything close to a structural issue. I mean 6mm, that's a small pencil??? I'm pretty sure based on the age of the bike, they only intended those holes to hold bodywork. And it already snapped so I'm not thinking there's a lot that 6mm's going to take, and also the reason I have as much work to do as I do.

 

[Gorecki]

Mikey75702;201119 wrote: They might have designed it for 6 mm bolts though.... Never know, you go bigger it COULD be a problem during the next crash.... You never know, the frame might not be strong enough and bend/break.


Oh, where are you at in md? If you are local I have a kit that should work.

Yeah, you're right. But I'd rather the slider stay on the bike and I think a couple more mm just might help? :dunno:

Dude! I'm in Glenwood. Probably not exactly local to ya. Now that I think about it, it just might cost more in gas to get it from you then to just order the tap.

 

[Mikey75702]

Lol... If you need an insert or whatnot.... Let me know. I can mail it to you or something. Just need the tool parts back.

 

[daddyfriedrich]

Going from a 6mm bolt to an 8mm bolt is going to put a bunch more stress on your frame during impact. Is the mounting point tabbed or just into the frame spar? If it's tabbed, you have a better chance for success.

 

[Gorecki]

daddyfriedrich;201149 wrote: Going from a 6mm bolt to an 8mm bolt is going to put a bunch more stress on your frame during impact. Is the mounting point tabbed or just into the frame spar? If it's tabbed, you have a better chance for success.

This is what I gots.

 

[Gorecki]

Mikey75702;201147 wrote: Lol... If you need an insert or whatnot.... Let me know. I can mail it to you or something. Just need the tool parts back.

Thanks Mikey. Appreciate it! Once I'm done figuring what we're figuring, I may be giving you a shout.

 

[bigkaley]

Gorecki;201158 wrote: This is what I gots.

Tapping that frame tab out to 8mm will weaken it. The little material left on the perimeter of the hole will be too thin to support an impact. The tab will then crack/ break.

I haven't checked, but is there no other options for using a frame slider off of an engine hanger bolt?

 

[avizpls]

hey wait....I need to revise my answer entirely. When I read your post, I thought (obviously wrongly) that we were discussing swingarm spool mounts.

That tab has no business being a frame slider mount. 6 or 8mm....

 

[Gorecki]

bigkaley;201188 wrote: Tapping that frame tab out to 8mm will weaken it. The little material left on the perimeter of the hole will be too thin to support an impact. The tab will then crack/ break.

I haven't checked, but is there no other options for using a frame slider off of an engine hanger bolt?

Unfortunately there’s no other location. Not only is it the only parallel mounting location (other than a pair way up on the frame just under the tank that won’t work) Those tabs are also my upper fairings only mounting location (other than the fairing stay) intended to be supported by the frame sliders on those tabs

I measured for sanity the width of the tab surface (22mm) and the depth of threaded portion (14mm). Unfortunately I don’t know the math for calculating mass of a load bearing surface but I would be willing to guess that all remaining surface area should be greater at any point then the hole it’s supporting. So talk about freaking close! It would be 8mm at all lateral points, but threaded would be ever so slightly less making it sure enough probably weaker than the bolt.

So in so many words, CRAP! Don’t know which is worse, frame slider mounting bolts that will break (not protecting the frame) or the mounting location not providing enough support for stronger mounted sliders to protect the frame. :banghead:

So...I guess I’m stuck with inserts and maybe whatever sliders I pick up the bolts will be or can be replaced with a stronger metal? :dunno:

 

[Gorecki]

avizpls;201241 wrote:
That tab has no business being a frame slider mount. 6 or 8mm....

Yeah, as I said in the last response, it's the only location and sharkskinz is cut to use it.

 

[beac83]

I'd just put in a helicoil and stay with the 6mm.

 

[tittys04]

Gorecki;201256 wrote: So in so many words, CRAP! Don’t know which is worse, frame slider mounting bolts that will break (not protecting the frame) or the mounting location not providing enough support for stronger mounted sliders to protect the frame. :banghead:

Frame sliders aren't intended to protect the frame (often time they compromise the frame more than anything), they are intended to protect the fairings. All you really want is as small amount sticking past the fairings, any more than that creates too much leverage and often time bends/breaks the slider right off, either breaking tabs off, or damaging them when the bolt bends/breaks. Don't go overboard, just put in a thread insert and install a short frame slider.

 

[dbarufaldi]

Gorecki;201257 wrote: Yeah, as I said in the last response, it's the only location and sharkskinz is cut to use it.

I would use a 6mm tap to chase the existing threads of the tab, then use a slightly longer bolt, and put a nut on it behind the tab, assuming you are not removing the slider often. You'll have plenty of threads to keep it from pulling out, and the slider is most likely shouldered, so it won't push the bolt in further if you crash.

Dan B

 

[Gorecki]

dbarufaldi;201330 wrote: I would use a 6mm tap to chase the existing threads of the tab, then use a slightly longer bolt, and put a nut on it behind the tab, assuming you are not removing the slider often. You'll have plenty of threads to keep it from pulling out, and the slider is most likely shouldered, so it won't push the bolt in further if you crash.

The previous slider bolt actually went all the way through poking out ~5-10mm beyond the threading. So as consensus suggests, I'll use inserts. Just got to get that figured out. All I've looked at (helicoil and timesert) base kits provide ~9mm depth insert. I want to go the full 14mm so I got some figuring to do.

Don't go overboard, just put in a thread insert and install a short frame slider.

Thanks for the input Tittys!

 

[Mikey75702]

If you can find something like this, its probably best. A steel replacement for the threads. Have used it on a friends spool mount, and another friends rearset mounts.

 

[Gorecki]

Mikey75702;201344 wrote:

If you can find something like this, its probably best. A steel replacement for the threads. Have used it on a friends spool mount, and another friends rearset mounts.

Bah, I had to go to another network to be able to see the pic's.

After a quick googling, those are E-Z Lok (yet another threading kit maker) so I'm going to start checking out those too!

Thanks for the heads up Mikey!

 

[Mikey75702]

If you want 2-3.... Pm me your address and I will throw them in an envelope and send them to you in a day or two.