tires

[ragweed316]

hey guys,
I currently run the bridgestone bt016 and while i thought that they were a great tire, i am beginning to think that they are no longer on par for my riding, i feel them break free a lot, and have had 2 offs with them both were low sides and want to say both were started from the rear, the only thing that i can think of is that the tire let go, I dont think it was me related :dunno: but then again, maybe i twisted the wrist a bit early in the turn causing the tire to spin. or that it could have been because it was late in the day. but they could have also been old tires. who knows.....

anyways, the only other tires i have run on the track were pirelli, superdragons i believe.

so for the up comming season i am wanting something that is gonna stick, now i know everyone is gonna say the dunlop Q2 or the new Q3, but why.. or should i give the stones another try. or... what do you think

 

[Unbroken13]

I like my michelin pilot 3... But im slow and a noob... But I trust them so it's one less thing I have to worry about

 

[moto1320]

If you've wrecked twice on the Stones I don't see the need to give them another try. Out of that class of tire the Dunlops allow for the greatest amount of lean angle, which you may be using too much of. Either way, good rubber and a little added insurance until you figure out why you're wrecking.

It's unlikely that it's the tires. If you think that it's the rubber though, it doesn't matter if it is or isn't…it's in your head now and you need that out of your mind so pick another brand. my .02

 

[ragweed316]

the only thing that i am thinking is i know that they had a season of no use, cause i was building up the bike, but they still looked fine so i used them.

but...could be too aggressive and thats why.

im not sure, just kind of baffled...

the dunlops, how are the profiles, am i going to have to adjust anything? and do they give you the drop feel like michalins do?

 

[moto1320]

I've never ridden anything else so I couldn't weigh in on that. You won't have to adjust the suspension. They are a bit peaky so if you're not used to them or have been on squared off tires they will feel like they are shaped like triangles. Big contact patch on the side and to me they fall into corners. I like them a lot. You can't really go wrong with any of the modern supersport tires. If your shopping for a change, you can't really leave the Q3 out of the conversation so try a set. Several websites have a 40.00 rebate right now too, making them the cheapest option as well. If you hate them, they are easy to sell.

 

[ragweed316]

true....

looking for more pot stirs

 

[Otto Man]

ragweed316;284490 wrote: true....

looking for more pot stirs

Here's an interesting pot stir that I've been thinking about as of the past few months...

I look at my crashes from last year, and I look at my lap times this year. I'm literally running circles around myself [compared to last year]. Makes me wonder how the hell can I carry the speed I have now without crashing every single lap, but managed to wreck last year going half the speed? :dunno:

I used to think the long term A groupers were nuts saying that you shouldn't have a problem running Q2's in A group. How?! They break free so easily, and I'm only in "I" group! No way. They are nuts...

Now, I'm the "A" grouper that says "Yes, you can easily run Q2's in A group without being a rolling road block." You won't be breaking lap records, but you can sure hold your own. What I think it boils down to is being able to read the feed back from both your motorcycle and your tires, being able to have acute smooth throttle control, and not trying to muscle the bars all the time in a corner. Yes, you must counter steer a great bit to initate a turn, but you should not being hanging onto the bike with your arms. It should be using your core and the outside leg gripping the tank. Keeping a relaxed grip on the bars really allows you to feel what the front end is doing. It will be easier to read the feedback from the front end. From doing this, I no longer get arm pump after a session. I no longer get blisters from white knuckle holding onto the bars. I finally understand what people talk about when they mention front end feel. It finally "clicked" for me.

Learning how to read the bike feedback taught me the rider errors I was making. After correcting these errors... those "crappy tires" suddenly became not so crappy. It's that damn loose nut under the helmet that was the problem. :haha:

 

[ragweed316]

i couldnt agree more, with being light on the bars, and using your core and outside leg, i have been saying that all along. My brother puts all his weight on the bars and doesnt see how i do a 10+ hour days worth of ride, or even track days.

But from what i have seen in the paddocks and the site here everyone is a Q2 guy. and am starting to think i will switch, but i just dint want to switch to be a fan boy, like say people with apple products. (even though i have a few).

perhaps the reasons i decided i wanted my bike to contune on the track while i was sliding beside it , will never be known to me. haha. but then again. thats why i have a back up street ride.

 

[USMC_10]

Otto Man;284510 wrote: Now, I'm the "A" grouper that says "Yes, you can easily run Q2's in A group without being a rolling road block." You won't be breaking lap records, but you can sure hold your own. What I think it boils down to is being able to read the feed back from both your motorcycle and your tires, being able to have acute smooth throttle control, and not trying to muscle the bars all the time in a corner. Yes, you must counter steer a great bit to initate a turn, but you should not being hanging onto the bike with your arms. It should be using your core and the outside leg gripping the tank. Keeping a relaxed grip on the bars really allows you to feel what the front end is doing. It will be easier to read the feedback from the front end. From doing this, I no longer get arm pump after a session. I no longer get blisters from white knuckle holding onto the bars. I finally understand what people talk about when they mention front end feel. It finally "clicked" for me.
+1 This about sums it up. Put this post on a sticky! I'll second these comments. I'm that guy who rides in "A" group with Q2s. Not saying I'm going to keep using them forever, but yes, they do possess the capability to allow you to ride with the fast boys (and gals) without worrying about whether you'll lose traction. As for me, I'm only a fresh-off-the-boat "A" group inductee (and thus toward the back of the "A" group pack)...however, I still run some pretty fast laps without the rear tire ever breaking free. No traction control...just feel and good throttle inputs.

Otto Man;284510 wrote:
Learning how to read the bike feedback taught me the rider errors I was making. After correcting these errors... those "crappy tires" suddenly became not so crappy. It's that damn loose nut under the helmet that was the problem. :haha:

Couldn't agree more. I just completed Aaron Stevenson's Cornerspin school this past weekend. The very first thing he teaches is to "listen to the bike's whispers". Learn to read what the bike is saying when things can still be corrected is probably the most significant, albeit difficult, thing a rider can do to prevent crashing (barring mechanical failure, being rear-ended, etc). As we all know, bikes are inherently stable. It is the rider that imposes all the instability into the system. As Otto Man said, and I'll reiterate since I believe it's that important...if you can learn to listen to what your bike is saying, you may quickly realize that it's not the tires causing the problem. So the question is how do you do that? IMO the best way to learn to listen to your bike's feedback is by getting more seat time.

Then again the BT-016 is a sport/touring tire, so upgrading to a super-sport or race tire would be prudent.

 

[SATDUC]

Something no one has mentioned yet is tire pressure. If you're having issues with the stones have you verified your hot temp pressures? They may be breaking loose on you because they are getting too greasy or maybe they aren't getting enough heat in them. I also run the Q2's and they are a very good tire but if you don't run the correct temps you're going to have issues with them too.

Just my 0.2 anyway.

 

[Peanut]

Buy a race tire or one of the trackday tires. Then put the correct amount of pressure in & go ride. I like the stones & go decent on them but the advise of getting off touring tires of any make is correct. Also remember tires lose life through not only losing tread & rubber but also heat cycles (The heating up & cooling down of tires). Good looking tires may not be so great if they have too many cycles on them. Tires that have been setting through the winter after being ridden hard will not be very good the following season either.

Get the tires that are built for the type of riding you do & you'll be fine. Make sure you know the recommended tire pressure and if it's meant to be set "hot" or "cold". If hot run your warmers for 45 mins to hour (avg) and set. If no warmers set a pound, 2 or 3 lower before going out give time for tires to come up to temp maybe a lap or 2, and then check immediately after your session and adjust as needed.


If recommended to set cold, we'll uh set cold and ride. ..lol

Have fun!

 

[ragweed316]

thats very ture, and my pressures were correct, well in the ball park of what i have found based off resposnse from the internet.

i think its time to just get off the sport touring tire.

 

[USMC_10]

ragweed316;284858 wrote: i think its time to just get off the sport touring tire.

Word!

 

[zangman]

Ok, my turn. Most of this feedback is related to the racing versions of the tires.

Michelins - While I haven't ran Michelins for a while here is my 2 cents. It is harder to get heat into them and to keep the heat in the carcass or the tire. When you ran the recommended tire pressure they were a rock. Had to run them lower PSI to get some flex. IF you can get them hot enough they do stick pretty good, however the level of feedback the tire gives you before you are in trouble is extremely minimal. When they let go I've not felt any warning. BAM, on the ground! I've heard from people that run the newer Michelins that they are better, but not a large step forward like they shoudl be.

Bridgestone - The BT003's had a grip level comparable to the Dunlop D211 but they didn't last very long. They gave ample feedback but when that feedback started coming you had better back it down. The wear on them was terrible, and I tried running them at CMP one time. BIG mistake! Went through three rears in two full days.

Pirelli - SuperCorsa Pro's. Great tire and grip, but you had to work to turn the bike in, due to the different profile when compared to the Dunlop's. They would fall off a little bit grip-wise pretty quickly but held out for a good little while. Similar feedback level to the Bridgestones but a bit more forgiving. I have a set of the trackday slicks I'm going try out at VIR soon but I hear they aren't quite a tire that will alst like Pirelli says they will.

Dunlop - My first experience on Dunlops was on the D209GPA. After I was slipping around on the Pirelli's it was recommended that I try the Dunlop's. I wish that recommendation had come sooner. That tire gave me confidence and speed just about everywhere. I would buy every 209GPa I could find for a decent price. I could safely get a full season from a front (I'm a LOT harder on my rear tires) and when I was slower 6 trackdays from a rear. As I got faster I could get 3 trackdays to a rear, and while it was shagged it still gripped. It gave a lot of feedback. Also the turnin on the Dunlops is so much easier. They just "fall" in and require less effort to initiate the turn. Then the D211 came out. Wow, just wow. I've tried both the UK and US versions and yes, the UK tires would last longer, even though they supposedly used the similar compounds. Then I decided one day to try the NTEC slicks, and while my wallet cringes when my buddy calls with a deal for some AMA takeoffs I snag all the good ones I can. My 675 doesn't shock a tire like the liter bikes do and I still get at least two trackdays with takeoff's. I made the mistake one time of buying new ones. OMG the grip for the first 15 laps was incredible. But to me the biggest positive of the Dunlop's is in the level of feedback they give you. While no one likes the feel of both the front and rear sliding when it happens I am very confident in knowing that you can feel that in both tires. They start saying "Hey man, you are near the limit." and then they also say "Since you took it to the limit we got your back." and keep gripping while sliding so you can make the adjustment that you need to stay out of trouble. Not saying they won't let go because they will but 90% of the time you get a warning and can keep it from dropping you to the pavement.

So to bring this LONG drawn out confusion to an end I love the Dunlop's.