When to start racing?
- Thread starter blankwall
- Start date
Casper
New Member
At track days, one is riding against themselves in an effort to get better, but during a race, you’re riding against the field, right?
By cheaper, I mean track time per $, not the equipment. On any given weekend, you might do 4 races and get 4 practice sessions at the bargain rate of $250… Absent contingency $, you spend more to ride less.
As far as safety, I think the whole point is that the risk of wrecks increases in certain situations, such as when inexperienced riders jump out there. While racing absolutely makes one faster, wouldn’t it be smarter to learn in a less hostile, and less expensive environment?
opcorn:Trust me Sam Gaige wouldn't have any trouble getting by you if you were trying to run into him. :wow:Casper;143723 wrote: At track days, one is riding against themselves in an effort to get better, but during a race, you’re riding against the field, right?
Mostly, when I race, I care about my own laptimes. Sure it's nice to say I finished 3rd or 1st. But if I ran a 1:14 at Summit Point and finished dead last, it'd be a good fucking day! I haven't met many motorcycle riders that don't get a rush from passing somebody at a trackday.
You could pay $75 for a Solo with WERA on saturday and get 2 practice sessions and a 20 lap race. Or you could pay $150 and get 4 practice sessions and 2 20 lap races. Practice days are usually 125 per class. At a place like Summit you get 5 practice sessions for 125. A nesba trackday there is usually like 195. Sure you get 7 sessions at Nesba, but with racing that's $25 per session and with nesba that's 27.86 per session. (although I know somebody is going to beat me up by breaking it down by minutes) :cheers:
Casper;143723 wrote:
As far as safety, I think the whole point is that the risk of wrecks increases in certain situations, such as when inexperienced riders jump out there. While racing absolutely makes one faster, wouldn’t it be smarter to learn in a less hostile, and less expensive environment?
Casper
New Member
As to the first, fair enough! I see your point. The rush one gets from a track day is the same as racing.
Re the 2nd, I didn't know WERA was that cheap?!! CCS sprints are 8 laps and the GT events are roughly 17, IF you're really moving. Sounds like WERA is a better deal, based on ride time!?!?!?!?! (Someone wanna loan me a transponder?)
Re Sam, I don't know him, but assume he's fast as crap. We'll have to agree to disagree as to the dangers of speed disparity.
jruck
New Member
I routinely spend about 800 ~ 1000 per race weekend. I can do two track days for about $400 and use the tires I have, and pump gas. Even 100 Octane is like 7$ gal. I don't run any other expensive race fuel, which can cost substainly more.
Plus the tempo is so much faster the two practice sessions for a WERA event are like 10 minutes. Often they get truncated. It's like a mad frenzy trying to get through tech, and then get geared up.
Track days offer a much more controlled environment, and what you gain from them will make racing much more valuable. The only negative I have seen from track days, is that they can make you docile in your riding, but long term you will be a better rider. I have learned some really good techniques from control riders, I use every time I race.
Plus the tempo is so much faster the two practice sessions for a WERA event are like 10 minutes. Often they get truncated. It's like a mad frenzy trying to get through tech, and then get geared up.
Track days offer a much more controlled environment, and what you gain from them will make racing much more valuable. The only negative I have seen from track days, is that they can make you docile in your riding, but long term you will be a better rider. I have learned some really good techniques from control riders, I use every time I race.
Meat
Member
The fees for my upcoming CCS race at VIR: $245 for 4 sprint (7 laps) races and will get 4 7 to 10 minute practice sessions between the 2 days. I will also have to fork out $15 per person per day gate fee and I don't remember how much power costs.
I am just starting into racing but there also seems to be a TON of crashes. 2/5 (40% for those with math deficiencies) of my races have had a restart due to a red flag and they don't seem to throw a red flag nearly as fast for a race as they do for a track day. Again, I am very inexperienced but this is my experience in racing so far.
It also seems like most of the crashes are mid-pack and the first few riders don't seem to crash very often at all.
It really is very intense and everything happens so fast. The calls are much quicker, practice is short, you have a 1 minute window to get on track for your warm-up lap. I do like the people that I have met at races so far. I stay off of the race forums because they don't seem so friendly online.
I race for fun, just like I do tack days.
I am just starting into racing but there also seems to be a TON of crashes. 2/5 (40% for those with math deficiencies) of my races have had a restart due to a red flag and they don't seem to throw a red flag nearly as fast for a race as they do for a track day. Again, I am very inexperienced but this is my experience in racing so far.
It also seems like most of the crashes are mid-pack and the first few riders don't seem to crash very often at all.
It really is very intense and everything happens so fast. The calls are much quicker, practice is short, you have a 1 minute window to get on track for your warm-up lap. I do like the people that I have met at races so far. I stay off of the race forums because they don't seem so friendly online.
I race for fun, just like I do tack days.
sobottka
New Member
i dont really get the cost comparison going on here between track days and racing. to me racing is totally different and the challenge is worth the extra cost. i could care less how much each racing lap costs vs. track day laps. there is no challenge in t/d's, so what if you get passed, so what if you pass "so and so on the zxr2000", who cares if you blow a corner, who do you race and how do you win? you dont, its a track day, who cares? ....its not racing, its just for fun and should be cheaper.
sobottka
New Member
those items you quoted and i listed in my previous post DO matter when racing and dont mean anything in track days, maybe you misunderstand my point there.
in other words, if i have to alter my line passing someone mid corner it doesnt matter. it may cost me time on my laptimer but who cares? there's no one to race and no checkered flag for a win (or loss) ...its a t/d.
greeny
Member
you don't have to make your decision right now... it's not like there's just one formula that works time and time again. everyone is different. do a trackday to familiarize yourself with the racetrack environment. it'll help you get some perspective and the CRs will be happy to work with you - then make your choice. there's a lot of decent info on these boards, but you'll never know what you wanna do until you go out there and try it for yourself. the only advice i can give you is to not treat that first trackday like it IS a race, otherwise, you'll probably end up on your head or hurting someone else. good luck!
FaceRace98
New Member
I have been around bikes and racing since i was a kid. The minute i bought my first streetbike I had the urge in my mind to one day go racing. Racing is more expensive though and I wanted to be competitive almost immideatly (top 5-10) before I started. I decided to do TD's to learn and become fast enough before I started. I would look at the times of the top Amatuers to see where I would stack up. Last year I made it to "A" group with NESBA and decided I was ready. Summit is my home track and where I am fastest so I have gotten my feet wet this year doing the CCS summit rounds, and the WERA 6 hour.
I had never run in the teens at summit until My first race weekend. The second weekend I was consistently in the 19's with a couple high 18s from latching on to the leaders and pushing to stay with them. So yes Racing will make you faster and teach you IF you are comfortable out there. IMO it is not the place to learn how to ride. First weekend had 30+ bikes on the grid for the 600 races. I was so pumped up that I got a terrible start and ended up running off track and dumping the bike first time out. I couldn't imagine how nervous I would have been If I had never turned a wheel on a track... I don't know how people do it. TD's are much more relaxed and there are plenty of CR's to give you tips, not so much in racing.
My advice would be to go out and do a few TD's before you think about gridding up. Get comfortable with the speeds, how to pass, being consistent...ect. There is so much to learn and enjoy when you first start out doing TDs, even if you like competition its fun to compete against yourself as your getting faster each time out. Take your time and get comfortable, when you think your ready by all means go racing.
I had never run in the teens at summit until My first race weekend. The second weekend I was consistently in the 19's with a couple high 18s from latching on to the leaders and pushing to stay with them. So yes Racing will make you faster and teach you IF you are comfortable out there. IMO it is not the place to learn how to ride. First weekend had 30+ bikes on the grid for the 600 races. I was so pumped up that I got a terrible start and ended up running off track and dumping the bike first time out. I couldn't imagine how nervous I would have been If I had never turned a wheel on a track... I don't know how people do it. TD's are much more relaxed and there are plenty of CR's to give you tips, not so much in racing.
My advice would be to go out and do a few TD's before you think about gridding up. Get comfortable with the speeds, how to pass, being consistent...ect. There is so much to learn and enjoy when you first start out doing TDs, even if you like competition its fun to compete against yourself as your getting faster each time out. Take your time and get comfortable, when you think your ready by all means go racing.
FaceRace98
New Member
If your in Advance group you will be fine out there... You will probably do pretty well. There are lots of guys with far less expierence with you out there. I was talking to a guy in my first race weekend and he asked why I was sitting out a practice session if I had never raced before. I explained that I had done a lot of TDs here and knew the track so I was saving my tires. He looks at me blankly and says "trackday, whats that a practice day or something".... :doh:
As far as being in peoples way, I just ran the WERA 6 hour at summit. There were 5-6 AMA guys out there including Jason Disalvo, Clint Seller, Westby, Bennie Solis (15 years old ran a 1:13.1 on a 600). They passed me like nothing, Disalvo lapped me 3 times in the hour I was out there as he put in 1:13s all day long. I never once felt unsafe or like I was causing them problems. faster riders will usually be able to get by fairly easily. It is more likely the slower guys that have no expierence that you will have to watch out for, not the other way around.
If you have the urge you should do it, it's awsome. Totally different than TD's....Kinda like a TD on steroids.