Exhaust header needs welding, or something!

[Gorecki]

Alright, after running some cleaner through my old dinosaur, letting it sit and firing it up, the commonly seen smoke from such cleaners started emitting from the belly of the bike, great, I’ve got an exhaust leak!

The leak is right at the back side welded seam of where the 4-1 pipes come together. Be it a result of crash damage or a weld giving way over time, the leak is a fairly clean line across the bottom of the pipe, right at the weld.

I’ve attached an actual picture (best I could do) of the leaking area, and a pic of the same pipe with an arrow pointing to the actually location for perspective.

I believe this is an OE pipe but I’m not absolutely certain, it appears to be aluminum as there’s no rust but haven’t given it a magnet test yet to find out for sure.

Point in the post, what do I do? I assume the best solution is to have it welded but I’ve never had anything welded before. Know of a guy who has a MIG but have no idea if they can do it, or do it correctly. What would you suggest?

At the same time, I have an additional issue which may be directly related. After replacing the OE rear brake lever that I broke with the proper woodcraft, now there’s no space between the pipe and the bottom of the lever. When pushing the brake it pushes on the pipe.

This could be the pipe got pushed up, bending it upward and what caused the seam to split down below. I’m just not sure yet, but if it isn’t bent, how do I get it to fit properly with the new considerably fatter lever! Image also attached.

I'm trying to avoid buying a new header for a seriously older tracker.

 

[Meat]

I am guessing your header is stainless steel and not Aluminum. Aluminum doesn't work very well at high temps with high vibration.

Can't really tell the relation of the brake lever to the crack. It could be a factor but it is hard to tell. I would NOT grind the bottom of the brake lever. You don't have much cross-section there, with the holes for the attach fasteners and you are near your point of max moment (think torque) and max compression in the lower portion of the lever.

Since it is an older beast that you aren't looking to squeak every 1/4 HP out of her, I would just dent the exhaust tubing where you have contact.

 

[Gorecki]

Meat;239463 wrote: I am guessing your header is stainless steel and not Aluminum. Aluminum doesn't work very well at high temps with high vibration.

Can't really tell the relation of the brake lever to the crack. It could be a factor but it is hard to tell. I would NOT grind the bottom of the brake lever. You don't have much cross-section there, with the holes for the attach fasteners and you are near your point of max moment (think torque) and max compression in the lower portion of the lever.

Since it is an older beast that you aren't looking to squeak every 1/4 HP out of her, I would just dent the exhaust tubing where you have contact.

Thanks Meat. I just took a minute and went out with a magnet and it wouldn't stick or attempt to stick anywhere on the header pipes suggesting it is aluminum or some sort of aluminum alloy. I believe this makes the welding situation a little more difficult?

Relationship to the lever. Simply enough, the new lever contacts the pipe, the old/OE didn't. BUT it's possible the reason the pipe is this far UP is the same reason the pipe is split at the weld, it got pushed up pulling on and breaking the weld and bending the pipe upward? Guesses of course, still haven't taken the header off the bike.

Right now there's a screaming bid going on for a full NEW Muzzy system I'm having thoughts at picking up but frankly even at the current bid don't want to spend any more than needed on the ole mule. :dunno:

 

[JGardy_781]

Gorecki;239471 wrote: I just took a minute and went out with a magnet and it wouldn't stick or attempt to stick anywhere on the header pipes suggesting it is aluminum or some sort of aluminum alloy.

Stainless steel is nonmagnetic...

Er... Correction. Most common stainless steels are nonmagnetic.

 

[Gorecki]

JGardy_781;239482 wrote: Stainless steel is nonmagnetic...

Er... Correction. Most common stainless steels are nonmagnetic.

Oh, didn't even think of that. :doh:

So, I'm back to having absolutely no freaking idea what the hell it's made of!

 

[JGardy_781]

If it's factory, it's probably some sort of plain steel, which it doesn't look like. It it's aftermarket, it's likely either stainless steel or titanium. Bring the headers to a welding shop; they can tell you definitively if you don't know, and can likely weld the crack up in either. And I'd do what Meat says -take a big cast iron pipe, a hammer, or something and bang clearance into the pipe for your brake lever.

 

[Gorecki]

Thanks for the responses gentlemen. I do suspect it's OE but has an old D&D can that's using the same bolt-on method the OE did for two production years so again, can't be certain.

While we're at it, anyone know of a welder anywhere near northwestern Howard county, Maryland?

 

[JGardy_781]

No personal experience. Googled "metal fabrication howard county maryland", got a page full of responses

 

[dbakerpa]

If it is aluminum you could try to brase it. I am not sure how high the temp gets at that point in the header though. If you have enough room you cold cut it take it to your local exhaust shop and have them expand it and split for a clamp. Or you could take it to a pro welder.

 

[Mikey75702]

I would bet its not aluminum (99.9999% sure of it), as its too soft to handle the strains it would be put under. So its titanium or stainless, as regular steel is magnetic. So fist bet would be to remove it from the bike and handle it.... Stainless will have a decent weight (if stock, its probably heavy) titanium is very light. Welding it up is easy if its stainless as you can use either stainless wire, or standard steel wire(in a MIG welder). If its titanium, the process is a good bit more involved and i am not sure of anyone close to us that will do it.

For your area, best bet would probably to hit Ram cycles in rockville.

 

[Gorecki]

Opps, missed your post earlier in the day Dave.

I haven't taken it off yet, but from what I can tell and what little I know it's stainless. Pretty darn sure it's OE. There's no way in hell titanium is on my ole POS, just not the bikes MO.

But I'll get it off likely this weekend and weight should be pretty clear regardless.

I'll have to look up ram, have heard of but no knowledge of. Otherwise I have a googled list of welder peoples I was going to work through.

Thanks for chiming in gentleman!

 

[Thunderace]

I had a Ti-Force titanium header go bad similar to this, but much worse. I took it to a shop off Guilford Road in Jessup and they wanted $250-$300 for the welding. Instead, I bought a brand new system on Ebay for $400. Almost all factory exhaust systems are stainless steel. The high end manufacturers and aftermarket use titanium. I don't believe anyone uses aluminum for exhausts. I would think that you should be able to get it welded for much less than what I was quoted.

 

[Mikey75702]

With it off, it should be pretty cheap maybe $50. It's going to take longer to set up the machine then to weld the crack. Hell if its stainless and you wanna drive it over here one day I am not busy, I will weld it for free. No biggie....

RAM cycles is on Gude drive not far from 355( rockville pike) in rockville. Pretty good people in my limited dealings.

 

[Gorecki]

Thunderace;239685 wrote: I took it to a shop off Guilford Road in Jessup and they wanted $250-$300 for the welding. Instead, I bought a brand new system on Ebay for $400.
Yeah, that's something I've been a little afraid of but again pretty sure I'm stainless. I just let a brand spanking new Muzzy full system go by on ebay that sold for $325. REALLY hope I don't end up regretting that. :notsure:


Mikey75702;239698 wrote: With it off, it should be pretty cheap maybe $50. It's going to take longer to set up the machine then to weld the crack. Hell if its stainless and you wanna drive it over here one day I am not busy, I will weld it for free. No biggie....

RAM cycles is on Gude drive not far from 355( rockville pike) in rockville. Pretty good people in my limited dealings.

Mike, once I have it off and looked it over, I just might very well take you up on your offer (but pay you of course). I can see now RAM does some minor work so that's certainly an option. My first thing to figure out is if it actually split/pulled apart because of a bend (from crashing) or did the weld simply separate. Should be able to see better once it's off the bike. Because, if it's bent, that'll likely take something in addition to welding to bend it back and/or maybe indent the mid-pipe area a bit to not be hitting the brake lever.

Any case, thanks for the offer and also thanks for accepting the ‘invite’.

 

[Mikey75702]

Any time bro. Hope everything works out cheaply for you.

 

[Gorecki]

Well I got the header off today and confirmed (well pretty damn sure) it’s an OE pipe. I found a stamp near where the can bolts on KHI M .049 which I can only assume means Kawasaki Heavy Industries.

Took a couple more pictures now that I could get a better perspective, the separation is pretty much all the way across the bottom and looks like the weld that's there simply let go. It’s only ~ .5 mm wide thought off axis is a bit deeper. The pics have some carbon near the break making it look bigger than it is. Just wire brushed some of that off.

Adding this for cataloging and to see if ya still think it’s an easy fix?

I’ve already ordered new gaskets, hope the can OE gasket works as the can is a D&D and not the OE.

Now off to see how I can bend/dent the area hitting the lever.

 

[Mikey75702]

Doesn't look that bad, can probably even put some pressure on it to close the crack and then weld it. That might help you with your clearance issues as well.

 

[matt2212]

I have a small wire feed mig machine and stainless wire, I'm no expert but I can bring the machine to vir and maybe someone in the paddock is better than me w it but we can give it a go

 

[Gorecki]

Mikey75702;240003 wrote: Doesn't look that bad, can probably even put some pressure on it to close the crack and then weld it. That might help you with your clearance issues as well.
EXACTLY what I was thinking, just no way in hell I can bend it.

matt2212;240007 wrote: I have a small wire feed mig machine and stainless wire, I'm no expert but I can bring the machine to vir and maybe someone in the paddock is better than me w it but we can give it a go

Thanks much for the offer Matt! Unfortunately, VIR is a 294 mile leg one way and having other *stuff* to do for the bike before she's track worthy again isn't a practical trip though I would like to get down there before seasons end!

 

[Mikey75702]

It looks like the crack is on the underside... Does it flex back closed if you put it upside down and put your weight on it... If so, then that's what you do as you weld it.