Gsxr 600 front caliper bolt problem

[andersoncm2]

I'm at my witts end--I'm trying to remove the front brake calipers on my k7 GSXR 600, and the caliper bolts are way too tight. Local dealer--now closed--changed my last front tire, and, evidentally used a nuclear powered torque wrench or either he was superman. I was only able to get one of the 4 bolts to come loose. The other 3......well, I was able to round off the heads of the bolts trying to break them loose.:banghead: I purchased a Craftsman bolt out kit, but still no dice. Seems like the bolt out sockets will not bite the head of the bolt. I hammered the bolt out socket on, and it still wouldn't bite. I even tried to "reshape" one of the bolt heads with a dremel to help the bolt out socket get a better bite--ack, still no bite.

Who has any advice on getting the other three out? A normal 12 mm socket wont bite and the bolt out wont bite. I'm trying to get the calipers off to changed the front tire and inspect the pads for an upcoming track day this spring.

If all else fails, guess I'll have to take it to someone, but I'd really like to do it myself on the cheap.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[andykurz]

For bolts with rounded heads, you basically have two options: Weld a nut onto the stripped head, and then use that to get it off, OR, drill the bolt out. The craftsman tools only work in very low torque / small applications.

In other stuck bolt scenarios, you would use a torch to heat it up, but I wonder if you risk damage to the fork in anyway. I wouldn't try it.

 

[andersoncm2]

andykurz;263120 wrote: For bolts with rounded heads, you basically have two options: Weld a nut onto the stripped head, and then use that to get it off, OR, drill the bolt out. The craftsman tools only work in very low torque / small applications.

In other stuck bolt scenarios, you would use a torch to heat it up, but I wonder if you risk damage to the fork in anyway. I wouldn't try it.

Thanks! I've ordered another set of bolt outs that are "supposed" to be for higher torque applications, but who knows if they'll work. I'll probably go with drilling it out and maybe try using some sort of easy out. Never thought about welding a nut to the already buggered up head. Will the weld be strong enough to hold the necessary torque? Heck, I'm to the point of trying to stuff some TNT in there to break it loose.

 

[Otto Man]

If caliper room allows, the easiest thing would be to grind off the heads of the bolts. With the tension relieved, you can pop the calipers off and remove the remainder of the bolt probably by hand. This is a good option if you don't have access to a welder.

Situations like this is why I ALWAYS ALWAYS use a 6 point socket whenever possible to help avoid rounding off bolts.

Now off to amazon to buy this nuclear powered torque wrench.... LOL

 

[andersoncm2]

Otto Man;263122 wrote: If caliper room allows, the easiest thing would be to grind off the heads of the bolts. With the tension relieved, you can pop the calipers off and remove the remainder of the bolt probably by hand. This is a good option if you don't have access to a welder.

Situations like this is why I ALWAYS ALWAYS use a 6 point socket whenever possible to help avoid rounding off bolts.

Now off to amazon to buy this nuclear powered torque wrench.... LOL

6 point socket:banghead:, now you tell me!!:argh: Yeah, I used a 12 point, and I'm sure that's what did it--heck, I know I was the one that screwed up. I have a co-worker that told to that I should've used a 6 point. He also mentioned grinding the head off of the bolts. He's an ag mechanics teacher, so I may be going to his shop to get a little assistance this week (and to borrow some tools).

Thanks!

 

[andykurz]

Good suggestion Otto.

One last option is to use a cutoff wheel. You can cut a slice in the bolt head much like a phillips head screw. I have been successful doing that and then hitting the "slice" with a flat blade on my air-hammer. If you hit the slice off to one side, the air hammer can turn the bolt. Again, be very careful with tools like that (if you have air tools) around suspension bits, brake parts, and wheels! It's very easy to make things worse.

Also, with a cut off wheel, you can cut two flat surfaces on either side of the head so that you can get some vice grips on it.

 

[Otto Man]

andersoncm2;263124 wrote: 6 point socket:banghead:, now you tell me!!:argh: Yeah, I used a 12 point, and I'm sure that's what did it--heck, I know I was the one that screwed up. I have a co-worker that told to that I should've used a 6 point. He also mentioned grinding the head off of the bolts. He's an ag mechanics teacher, so I may be going to his shop to get a little assistance this week (and to borrow some tools).

Thanks!

Take it for what it's worth (.02 cents), but as a golden rule for myself, I never use a 12 point socket unless the bolt head actually requires a 12 point socket. You have to be careful with tool sales like craftsman, because a lot of times the sockets they are unloading are all 12 points. Situations like yours makes it totally not worth it!

 

[HondaGalToo]

Well, you learn something new everyday. I always thought 12 point sockets were better...less chance of rounding than 6 point. Guess I'd better re-evaluate my toolbox, LOL. I think most of my sockets are 6 point, it's many of my wrenches that are 12 point. Good info.

Anyway, I have no idea how to get those bolts out, but once you do and replace them, use anti-seize on the caliper bolts. Yeah, anti-seize. The manual actually states to do this for my '07 gsxr. (Unlike my Honda 929 which called for loctite. Go figure).

 

[andykurz]

As Otto said, the twelve point SOCKET is almost completely useless. The only twelve point sockets I ever see are really big, like car axle nuts. However, a twelve point box end WRENCH comes in really handy.

 

[Otto Man]

HondaGalToo;263179 wrote: Well, you learn something new everyday. I always thought 12 point sockets were better...less chance of rounding than 6 point. Guess I'd better re-evaluate my toolbox, LOL. I think most of my sockets are 6 point, it's many of my wrenches that are 12 point. Good info.

Anyway, I have no idea how to get those bolts out, but once you do and replace them, use anti-seize on the caliper bolts. Yeah, anti-seize. The manual actually states to do this for my '07 gsxr. (Unlike my Honda 929 which called for loctite. Go figure).

It's the flats, not the corners that do all of the "holding". Next time you got a bolt off your bike, take a look at the amount of "play" difference between a 12 and 6 point socket. You can also see the loss of gripping surface area on the twelve point.

I was a ASE Tech for a few years, and have my fair share of fubar'd nuts and bolts.

I would NOT do it in this case, but some torch heat on the nut (fork leg in this case, but again this is NOT an area to do this) will make life a billion times easier. The heat makes the nut threads expand ever so slightly and the bolt will come right on out. I use this method mainly on really rusted threads.

 

[andersoncm2]

Question about welding the nut to the mangled bolt head: do I pick a nut that will fit OVER the bolt and then weld the dickens out of it or do I weld a nut of similar size (ie 12 mm) to the TOP of the "tiger chewed" bolt head?

Again, thanks in advance!!

 

[Otto Man]

Using the smaller socket is easier for a first timer, as there's no chance of boogering up the socket where the ratchet goes in. The downside to this is that you can really only weld half the circumference, as the other side is blocked by the caliper/fork leg.

Using the correct socket size is a little trickier as you can inadvertently touch the sides where the ratchet fits, and if you mess it up bad enough, the ratchet won't even fit. If you're a first term welder I would definitely use the first method, but anyone with semi proficient welding skills can do the second method, which would be stronger (done correctly), as you can just "fill in" the bolt head and socket with weld.

With either method, you should clamp the ground on the socket. The further the ground, the more the current has to pass through. If that path travels across bearings, it can cause it to arc. Then, on a very small scale, the race/cup on the bearing is no longer smooth, and that bearing is going to get eaten alive in no time. Learned that the hard way... It's really not a concern in your case, but something to keep in mind as a general rule of welding in the future.

 

[andersoncm2]

Thanks!!

 

[bigkaley]

Can you turn the bars to full lock and get access enough to drill the head off the bolt? This would allow you to then remove the calipers without further damage.
Next, with the remainder of the stud left in the fork lower leg, use PB Blaster or some type of penetrating oil from the top of the threads and allow to weep down into the leg. Do this 2 or 3 times and let it soak in.
Lastly, use a heat gun or even a hair blow dryer to heat the lower fork leg as much as possible. Avoid using a torch if possible.
Finally, use a good vise grip on the part of the bolt sticking up. Make sure to get a good bite close to the end of the bolt nearest the fork leg with the vise grips.

 

[TLR67]

Propane Torch and a EZ Out...


I was removing a customers wheel at Barber one weekend and the dealer used the same thing... I bet those bolts have some whit stuff on them dont they? Its like a cement loctite that DOES NOT need to be used...

 

[andersoncm2]

bigkaley;263198 wrote: Can you turn the bars to full lock and get access enough to drill the head off the bolt? This would allow you to then remove the calipers without further damage.
Next, with the remainder of the stud left in the fork lower leg, use PB Blaster or some type of penetrating oil from the top of the threads and allow to weep down into the leg. Do this 2 or 3 times and let it soak in.
Lastly, use a heat gun or even a hair blow dryer to heat the lower fork leg as much as possible. Avoid using a torch if possible.
Finally, use a good vise grip on the part of the bolt sticking up. Make sure to get a good bite close to the end of the bolt nearest the fork leg with the vise grips.

Thanks! The bars will turn full lock to both sides, so I should have enough space to drill/cut the heads off of the bolts. Would a small pipe wrench and a cheater pipe get a better grip than the vise grips or would using the pipe wrench be too much for the bolt material?

 

[andersoncm2]

TLR67;263200 wrote: Propane Torch and a EZ Out...


I was removing a customers wheel at Barber one weekend and the dealer used the same thing... I bet those bolts have some whit stuff on them dont they? Its like a cement loctite that DOES NOT need to be used...

Thanks! The one bolt I was able to get loose had nothing on the threads--no loctite nor any anti-seize. Of course, the dealer may have used up all of his loctite on the 3 I can't get out--probably my luck.:banghead:

 

[andykurz]

I think vice grips are better, you can screw them down to size, then squeeze them by hand, vs a pipe wrench which you just screw to fit.

 

[bigkaley]

andersoncm2;263201 wrote: Thanks! The bars will turn full lock to both sides, so I should have enough space to drill/cut the heads off of the bolts. Would a small pipe wrench and a cheater pipe get a better grip than the vise grips or would using the pipe wrench be too much for the bolt material?

I would not suggest using a pipe wrench or cheater bar for leverage. If you are slightly out of alignment when applying the force it is possible to fracture the lower fork legs caliper mounting posts.

How much time has the bike spent outside/ susceptible to moisture/ weather? More often than not, the interaction of the aluminum fork leg with the steel bolt to fasten the calipers causes corrosion that ends up looking a powder-white. If the calipers haven't been removed very often, the corrosion has plenty of time to build up.

The keys are to use the penetrating oil and give it time to soak, then use the heat gun/ hair dryer to expand the aluminum of the lower fork leg. As was mentioned, it is possible that once the heads of the bolts are drilled off and the calipers are removed, the remainder of the bolt may actually spin right out since the torque load has been removed.

 

[NickMcCoy]

I had three pinch bolts that were impossible to get out last year, I ended up stripping all off them trying and they wouldn't budge. I took it to my mechanic and he cut the heads off, once they were off it was very easy to get the rest out, I think he took them out by hand even. The first thing I always try with a stripped bolt is a standard socket, sometimes one will be a little smaller and you can hammer it on.