Judy....????

1up5down

Control Rider
Judy -

I know I came over and saw you after this event, but I wanted to send another note wishing you well and encouraging you to find peace with this unfortunate event. I understand it is not easy given the circumstances and active actions of the person responsible.

I've enjoyed seeing you at every trackday since we meet back in 2008 and it would be difficult to not see you in the future. Take the time you need to importantly heal physically and find the peace you need with how you choose to proceed moving forward.

My general thoughts after reading some of the thoughts shared in this thread:

We as humans are not immune to making mistakes or bad judgment; however the context in which we state this offers us the opportunity to strengthen our immunity so to speak.

What I mean is we (track day riders) consciously make the decision to sign up and ride at a track day along side others. With that comes a big human responsibility to self and to others.

No, I don't expect every rider to cherish life as much as I do. However, I do expect ever rider to consciously think about their life and the life of others while they ride on the track at a track day. Maybe I'm off with my expectation/ask of others, but I'm just being honest.

I can only speak for myself; I’ve done 15 plus track days since 2006 and I’ve been racing since 2010. So, that’s roughly 105plus track days and roughly 50 + sprint races. I’ve only hit the ground twice and I’ve never taken another rider out, never
!

I routinely ask myself why this is so and well, I keep coming back to one key element. My approach to my riding, I value my life and the life of others over my lap time, finishing position, ego, bravado, what my friends think or may say, getting the bump…

So, yeah humans are not immune to making mistakes. However (In my best Steven A Smith voice), it is our approach to our riding that helps to ensure we are on the right side of the human mistake equation!

To those reading this, please take the opportunity to consider your approach to your riding each and every time you line up on pit out for your session. Doing this along with redirecting your thoughts, actions and emotions may save not only your life, but others as well.

Allen

PS. The person that hit Judy stayed in pits and didn't come to NESBA control to inquire about the rider they hit. NESBA officials went looking and found him. This action alone speaks volumes of the character of this person. I'm not saying the person does not have character or compassion. I can't judge that from this one situation.

Let's display more compassion and care for those who are engaged in this sport with us.
 

Ducati Pete

Member
rk97;255146 wrote: I believe that was evaluated and addressed at the track when the incident took place. There's already way too much Monday-morning quarterbacking going on in this thread. Hell, a couple of people have tried to light the torches and started to pass out pitchforks without really knowing what happened.

The fact that we're all friends with Judy certainly isn't helping him out any...

I don't think this has become a witch hunt, I think it's becoming a thread regarding ways of improving TDs and the club as a whole. It's the way our society, businesses and even households improve upon situations.

Also, some are insinuating this guy did this intentionally ............. That's crazy, this guy did not do this meaningfully. He simply made a poor judgement call, which should be unacceptable. Nobody does this on purpose and if they did/do, they need to be locked up in a prison cell.
 

Dave561

Control Rider
Director
I spoke with both riders and the eye witnesses of the event. Actions were taken. Both riders spoke to each other. Right or wrong, the incident occured. For this incident no more can or will be done.
 

1up5down

Control Rider
Dave561;255137 wrote: ABSOLUTELY NOT! Sorry, but this is a no fault sport and we on entry into the sport accept the fact that we show up with a bike and can go home with a box. There is no way you want to open this up to litigation and assignment of fault. If we go that route in any way, we will never turn a wheel on track again since the insurance and lawyers wll destroy the sport

EDIT: Not a personal attack, but this can not happen.
Dave -

Thanks for the heads up, I'm brining a box to the next event and taking your R6 home with me. I'll add it to my collection, lol!:p
 

barry38

Member
Having followed this thread from the start, I am sad to see it took the "lynch mob" turn. John Allen is a person whom I have the utmost respect for and he always made me feel welcome during my trips down south (which I miss very much). And as usual he hits the nail right on the head and is the voice of reason.

No one, I mean no one goes onto the the track with the intention of taking someone out. When something like this happens, the initial instinct is to want to assess blame. One of the things I would go over during my B group meetings was that everything you take onto the track is expendable, including you. Things can and will go wrong. If you are not prepared to face the consequences of things going wrong, regardless of fault, you should not venture onto a racetrack.

Just remember every decision you make while riding on the track will have some sort of consequences, good, bad, or indifferent. Another thing I'd go over in the B meetings was this. If you "think" or you're "pretty sure" you can make a pass, it means your really probably can't, and because it's a track day, and you're not getting paid, and there is nothing to be gained by "thinking" you can make a pass, take a deep breath and don't do it. It's never, ever worth taking a chance and taking someone else out.


Judy - I hope you heal up quickly, and I'm thankful that it did not end up any worse.
 

Evil Cupcake

Control Rider
Get well, rest and I hope to see you and Vinny next season. You two were the nicest, most welcoming people to me last year during my first trackday at Summit Point. I was hoping to see you again this season after the WERA season was over. Ice, elevation and rest..get better soon!
 

z064life

New Member
For the lynch mob, as stated I made that remark in jest and clarified it after. Things happen, and this didn't need to but it did, I'd say more are worried Judy won't be back because of this then the accident itself.

Dave, good to see everyone has talked and the rider has been dealt with as NESBA saw fit. Hopefully the egos at future trackdays can get checked in the future because of this.

Here's looking forward to the rest of this year and hopefully seeing Judy on the track next spring.
 

junglelogic

New Member
JRA;255077 wrote: Just remember those feelings when you are the one who has made the big mistake. Nobody is perfect, including you, and there is always the chance you could be on the giving end of something extremely stupid. We all live in a glass house here and everyone would do well to remember that.

Making a mistake is not an acceptable excuse for hurting someone but it does happen.
True. I totally see what you're saying. I know we have all seen that guy that's trying to win the "NESBA Cup." I remember a couple years ago I was passed on the inside in the second lap of the second session in the fish hook on south course running in "B" group. Then everyone got the ass chewing. If that guy, or anyone like that, were to take me down, I would consider causing pain. Not sure if I would act on it, but would consider.

I guess that is the risk though. It's the same driving on the road. There will always be the other guy. Thanks for opening my eyes John, I do some pretty stupid things pretty regularly. :) if my wife ever comes to the track again she will verify.
 
Dave, and some others, have pointed out what we really already know. We ALL make mistakes, but the marked difference in one mistake over another is often its intention.

As I have gotten faster (and by no means I am fast) the skill it takes to make proper judgments on the track gets harder. I’ve broke the NESBA rules and passed a rider on the outside in the carousel. I broke Absolute track days passing rules by passing a rider on the INSIDE of turn one at Thunderbolt. Both riders were pretty pissed off at me. Didn’t matter the passes were clean, what mattered was those riders were expecting me to adhere to rules put in place for the safety of all riding. At the time, I did what I thought was safest for all involved. I got talked to by NESBA staff and was prepared to take whatever punishment was going to be dished out and most of all keep my mouth shut and not offer excuses. The guy from the Absolute track day took the law into his own hands and was in my face before I could get off the bike after the session. I let him vent (and kept my helmet on in case he was going to punch me) and when it appeared him and his 18 friends pitted with him cooled down some I made sure I went over and offered my humble apologies and that is NOT I how normally ride. The guy was cool and calmed down, but as we talked it wasn’t so much me that he was pissed at, it was the guy after me that passed him on the inside of another turn. It was if my mistake touched off a ‘screw the rules’ mentality.

Thus, mistakes like this can and do happen and I think we all have done them or have had them done to us. However, I didn’t repeat it and used them as a reminder to be thoughtful on what I am doing out there when riding. But it’s the mistakes like Junglelogic described with someone passing on the inside of the second lap, second session that defy explanation and excuse or the time maybe 3-4 years ago at NJMP two racers of some sort were riding in A group and were thrown out because they were ‘racing’.

In all this, I think Judy may be right that maybe we have become a little more accepting of the various mistakes (whatever) they may be when riding. I remember when I first started doing track days that if a session was red flagged it was an embarrassment to that group. If red flags continued you feared the CR’s were going to only let you do parade laps. I know the NESBA staff still punishes passing offences and riders have been both removed for the day and made to sit out, but it’s been a long time in a B group meeting when I have heard (and we had to repeat it back to the CR captain) “if you get caught passing in a turn you will sit out a session; if you do it a second time your day is over”.

In the end I am sure NESBA management will discuss the best recourse to address the ideas and concerns raised by the nesbians who have posted up. In the meantime, here is a article I posted last year that was very enjoyable and pertinent to our discussion:

BZ

Passing as an art
By Gregg Bonelli
Photos: Mark Mitchell

If you race very long you inevitably notice a pattern about races: You start, then you pass everyone you can, everyone who can pass you does so, and then you ride to the end and see where you finish. If you are a beginner, almost all your concentration has to be devoted to going fast and dealing with the track, not with other riders.

If you were not expecting to be passed, then when you are it’s somewhat startling, particularly if you were doing all you could and someone comes along and takes away a vital part of the track you had intended to use in just a moment. Passing and being passed in a turn is a moment of supreme risk.

Yet there are those who pass you without regard for your safety and intentionally set out to disrupt your riding just because they can. This was something I saw at AHRMA races this past season, which should worry all of us. The purpose of this article is to see what can be done about it.
Let’s begin at the critical moment of the pass—a faster bike approaches a slower one from behind. The speed differential may be due to rider skill, machine capabilities, track familiarity or any number of other causes. Whatever the reason, one machine is about to overtake another, and the manner in which it is done speaks volumes about the riders.

After a long racing career I am not ashamed to admit to being passed by some of the greatest riders of our time. As an AMA Expert I saw Kenny Roberts come on the scene as a Junior and dominate roadracing. I was on the grid with him and others who made it a habit to pass me at every opportunity. I would gladly have done the same to them, of course, but seldom could. What I noticed about being passed by them was that I had to do absolutely nothing different than what I was already doing for a safe pass to happen. They came and went without bothering me in the slightest. I did not have to change lines or grab a handful of brake or even let off the throttle, because they had already calculated my speed and line and theirs, and knew it was going to work out. It had better; it was their responsibility to see to it. Passing, then as now, is one of the skills that makes roadracing continually challenging. My job, as a rider being passed, is to maintain the integrity of their calculations by not changing anything. That’s right, all I have to do is press on as hard as I can at what I was already doing and I will be protected and safe. Of course, there is one factor with two expressions that can make all this go wrong—rider judgement. If the guy being passed changes something during the pass, and contact occurs, then it’s his fault. Changing your line or throttle setting or braking in a turn while someone is in the process of passing you is asking for trouble. Why? He is faster here than you or he would not be passing. That being true, he has the only view of both bikes as he approaches and he alone can make calculations about where you will be when he passes. If you alter that calculation after he has committed to the corner and the pass, then you caused the consequences that come after. Simple enough: Protect yourself during passes by keeping on doing what you were already doing as if the other rider was not even there.

I know some of you are thinking that this is going to cause trouble because Joker “A” passed you at such and such last year, and if you hadn’t grabbed the brakes and avoided hitting him you both would have gone down. Maybe that is true for you, but this is about what the art of passing should be, not about some failure of it as applied to you. I want to add here that there is nothing intuitive about this. When I hit the banking at Daytona on a TZ750 the first time and Roberts passed me a mile later at 180, I was petrified. I knew he was good, but I wasn’t sure I was good enough to be on the track with him. If I made some stupid unexpected move we were both going to pay for it, so holding my machine steady (and leaving room at the edges) was a necessity. I also should add that he would pass incredibly close, but we never touched. He just came and went, and I kept doing what I had before he was there. His was a standard I still aspire to today. Contrast that with my experience at Talladega last season. I’m riding along passing folks as I go, and I come upon this guy and pass him on the inside, nothing close. Instead of keeping his line, he straightens up, gives up on the corner and hits me. Boom. I’m off the track and dealing with the grass while he goes on. So I come back up to him in a few moments and try again. This time I set him up to take the outside first, then go inside. Boom. He hit me again as soon as I am in front of him by going straight off the turn to the edge of the track. I manage to avoid falling, but he’s two for two with me. I let him alone until we come to the straight, and I pass him there.

Now, it’s obvious to me that this rider is either a novice or a hazard. His reaction to being passed was that he must immediately do something different, not to keep doing the same thing he was doing. As a result, my calculations about where he would be were out the window. Add to that his apparent target fixation on the bike sharing the corner with him, and you have a recipe for unnecessary contact. The point of all this is safety. We at AHRMA have a mixed grid of machines and riders for almost every race. Some bikes are faster than others, and the same is true of riders. Every time we pass someone we should strive to set an example to them and to everyone watching of what an art passing can be. The measure of that art is the degree of disruption you caused when you passed. If the other rider could keep on doing just what he had been doing, as if you had not come and gone, then you have made a masterful pass, and he should appreciate it as much as you should. It’s a small world for us on the track, and there’s not just courtesy to be considered—some day in some other corner that guy you just passed may be passing you, and if you did a bad job of it and left a bad impression, he may leave one on you as well. That is what we don’t need in this sport.

Secrets of the master passer

We all have corners that seem to match our particular sensibilities. You may be a whiz at flat-out sweeping bends but cannot get out of your own way in a first-gear righthander. That being true, when you pass your way forward in a race to the point that you can no longer catch those in front of you and those behind cannot catch you, you know which corners you have wired and which still need work.
If you are smart, and if you can go to school on the guy in front of you, and if he has faster lines in corners where you are not catching him but you have faster lines in other corners (because you always catch back up to him there), then to get past him just learn his lines and use them. Remember, he hasn’t seen your faster lines, so timing may be a consideration; if you think you may not get much further up in the results, it may be wise to wait until the last lap to make your pass, so he does not have the opportunity to return the favor.
Ever been caught late in the race by someone you thought you had passed and left behind? Wonder how he did it? Now you know.
As a final point, there comes the question of what to do with those who do not subscribe to this orderly view of how we should apply our skills. You know them. They pass any way and any time they can, and call it racing. If someone gets knocked down, that’s just tough and their own fault for being slow. Here is my solution to that problem. There comes a time in a corner with this sort of rider when he has failed to calculate or even consider your position in the turn and contact is imminent. You have been left with the choice of hitting him or falling yourself. Do you have to save him from his own lack of skill by letting him go on his way at your expense? I say no, and here is why. Imagine a conversation afterward when you are asked about the resulting crash because you did not take evasive action. In response to being asked what you did when he appeared in the turn with you, you could say either that you kept doing just what you had been doing, or you could say you attempted to take evasive action and lost control. The former speaks of your skill and composure. The fault is his for the miscalculation which caused the contact. The latter puts the blame on you for losing control of a situation that was beyond your control to begin with. There is one additional benefit to the first choice—the onus of the mistake of the passing rider stays with him, and that may mean all the way to the ground. If it is his fault it happened, then better him than you. Racing is not safe and never will be. Risking the limits of speed has its own hazards and all of us have learned a lesson here or there by falling down while dealing with them. Some of us have also been put on the ground through no fault of our own by some predatory passing. The first is unavoidable, the second unforgivable. Some people die when they fall, some are crippled for life. Nobody wants that to happen to anyone. Let’s clean up our passes and make the effort to demonstrate our skill at every opportunity, not just by running up front but also by how we got there.

Gregg Bonelli (#16) won the AHRMA Formula 500 championship in 1993. He and Kenny Roberts both logged their best Daytona 200 finishes the same year, in 1978, when Roberts won and Gregg was 37th
 
Perhaps maybe some need a reminder while Rolling Down Hot Pit and before Entering the track a Sign Message of some sort being Posted.
TRACK DAY Safe Passing. Something like this might stick in the minds of some while circulateing around and before making a Judgement on a pass. maybe even a few signs posted around the paddock. Just an Idea..
 

Dave561

Control Rider
Director
Judy is a well respected member of the riding community and one of the most technical and consistent riders I know. She rides for the sheer pleasure of riding and is the first to offer help to her fellow rider. I think we all appreciate having Judy around and many of us have the pleasure of calling Judy a friend

Please make no mistake. This was not a bad rider, just a bad decision for that moment in time. No one sits in the pits and says to his buddy:
I'm going to take her out.
Why would you do that?
Cause her ass looks better in leathers than mine
Really dude, you think that's fair
Yeah, than I'll have the best ass in leathers out there

We all have those wish I would of, maybe I could have moments. On track and real life this happens. There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread, but please keep in mind, I can spend 20 minutes talking about the etiquette of passing in each meeting. I can also spend 20 minutes talking about the fact that no one wants to be taken out. But all of this is best left with us. Each of us needs to say:
I will not let ego cloud my judgement
I will wait to the next turn to make that pass
I will ensure the safety of my fellow rider
I will set the example for my fellow riders on passing etiquette
I will....

None of that starts with, well he said we should be nice or he said we should evaluate the rider to make a clean pass.
 

kubricky

Control Rider
Director
As I said in my post, please email me if you would like to discuss this - I have recieved only one email and for the person that sent the email, I am still thinking about what you've said - I will give you a ring this weekend.

For those that would like to speak about this incident, send me an email and I will call or send me your thoughts and I will respond.

Why speak with me you ask? I wasn't even there? What could I possibly know about the situation or be able to offer? give it a try...
 

Luggageboy

New Member
Bubba, thank you so much for that article. I learned quite a bit from just reading it. I think the points made there are absolutely the KEYSTONE to how to pass. Your passing should be smooth and calculated so that you can get by the other riding without altering either your line or his. I wish everybody could read and understand what is being said here in this article, because if everybody did this, contact would happen much less frequently.
 

noobinacan

Member
cbrcrducmonster;255248 wrote: Perhaps maybe some need a reminder while Rolling Down Hot Pit and before Entering the track a Sign Message of some sort being Posted.
TRACK DAY Safe Passing
. Something like this might stick in the minds of some while circulateing around and before making a Judgement on a pass. maybe even a few signs posted around the paddock. Just an Idea..
That's the greatest IDEA ever.
put it right in the middle of pit lane...and have Billy point to it with the flag as people are leaving the pitlane.
 

Perlzuki

New Member
Don't get here too often, but very sad to hear what happened to Judy. PM'd her & I'm very glad to hear that she will have no long term damage!
Some of you may remember Dutch ( our NE director for many years). No slight to any of the directors, but Dutch held the best riders meeting ever. Very funny & serious at the same time. Every riders meeting he would say" IF YOU ASK YOURSELF, DO I HAVE ROOM TO MAKE A PASS ? THAT ANSWER IS NO!!!!!!" Best advice ever.
After getting really busted up myself, seeing 3 of our NESBA family pay the ultimate price last year, Taylor, Judy & so on. We all must ride with our heads & try our very best to protect ourselves and all of those around us. We see it happen to those around us & never think that it can happen to me, but it can!

Mark
SE CR #249 (RETIRED)
 

shaugdog

New Member
I've had bruising like that from crashing. What's cool is all that blood will start draining down your arm and legs. And it takes FOREVER! Heal up, glad nothing is broken.
 
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