Lean-o-meter

Quantum_Ape

New Member
JGardy_781;3698 wrote: Cool. Get to work... I'll buy one!
LOL, unfortunately i have more ideas then i have time. Not to mention I'm just a hack hobbyist at this point. Give me another year and a half at the university and i should have all the class's i need to pop these things out like rabbits.

But this project intrigues me now that i have been thinking about it. Maybe after i finish up a couple others I'll take a poke at this one and see how things fair and how many issues i run into.

Brian, I'd love to make a video overlay with all the bike data. Wouldn't that be cool for tuning? I looked into this one a while back actually and i think it's a bit over my head still at the moment. If i ever do figure that one out i will be sure to let everyone know. I'd go out and buy all this equipment but for the money they want i could get a couple spare track bikes :D
 

JGardy_781

Member
Brian Laws;3711 wrote: Well, however you guys decide to do this, I just want to see some lean angle & accl/deccl windows on these trackday videos like we see occassionally on MotoGP. Owe, that reminds me - would like to see the occassional brake lever shot on these trackday videos as well. Ya'll are taking requests right?
Somebody had posted a video up recently that showed those little acce/decel boxes - there is something commercial that does that type of stuff - probably not cheap, but within the relam of the average trackday rider to afford...
 

physicistkev

Control Rider
Ape - the camber would be accounted for since you are measuring distance to the track. If the camber was different from where the tire is on the ground vs where the "laser" is measuring then there would be some error. I would think that the camber difference between the 2 spots, maybe 3 feet of separation, would be negligible.
 

BigKid

New Member
BarryD;3679 wrote: I use this Fowler electronic protractor at work all the time.

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/fow74-422-450.html

It's very accurate and robust, gives constant readout, plus you can zero it in any position. Unfortunately, there is no memory function, so I guess you'd still need a camera to record...... or read it in the middle of the turn:notsure:
Barry, throw it in your car and try it while moving. I am curious to see if it works in motion. Your car should have a small bit of lean in a corner. I expect it may say your car has 25-35 degrees of roll due to the cornering forces.
 

mlmoore

New Member
JGardy_781;3716 wrote: Somebody had posted a video up recently that showed those little acce/decel boxes - there is something commercial that does that type of stuff - probably not cheap, but within the relam of the average trackday rider to afford...
I have a veypor VR2 http://www.veypor.com. It keeps does keep track of acce/decel through an internal 3-axis accelerometer. You actually have to calibrate it when new by slowly rotating it through 360 degrees. It doesn't do any lean angle. I haven't done much with the accel/decel but it is there when I download data and can be displayed at +-G.

They currently have no lean angle but I think I'll post a feature request on their site. Never know.

UPDATE: just checked This has been requested in the past and here is the response.
This would be a bit tricky - If you were going at a constant speed then it would be possible, but if you begin to accel or deccel in the turn then it would be difficult to figure out if the bike is changing speed or changing lean angle. The reason for this is that we allow users to mount the Veypor in any orientation they want and the accelerometers automatically adapt. If we knew that the Veypor was mounted perfectly perpendicular to the road then it would be easy to measure the lean angle.

Mike
 

greytop

New Member
Damn fellas, just ride

If yer gettin' passed, yer too slow

If yer not gettin' passed, yer Doyer or Drew

'nuff said
 

Quantum_Ape

New Member
physicistkev, your right, good point.

mlmoore, I guess they have a point, but i think it can still be done. I think maybe they don't feel like revamping the product to add one feature. I can't blame them though :)

greytop, us slow people need to know HOW slow we are so we can feel better about being less slow later lol. I think were all doing ok without the tools, but when you love something like racing you want pictures from every angle, video from the front, back, following etc..., If you can get something to compare and contrast, log and hopefully validate those suspicions you have that you are actually doing better, it's just one more thing to drool over after the day is done.

Unless of course i'm the only one that obsesses over every photo and critiques himself constantly on his form. :D

Is that shoulder in the right place? That knee doesn't seem like it's at the right angle. Why is my head turned like that? Am i looking through the corner like i should? :notsure:

Damn that OCD, oh look at the kitty. :D
 

greytop

New Member
physicistkev;4092 wrote: Don't give Greytop to much credit... he's mighty slow himself :moon:
fast (or slow) enough to know I don't need no stinkin' "lean-o-meter"

:idea:
 

Quantum_Ape

New Member
The program looked pretty cool. It's gps based so all your getting is acceleration and deceleration averages. The rest is calculated on the GPS points and placed on a graph to overlay the map.

Great tool for viewing overall progression. GPS however has too large an error margin to tell you finite detail with any accuracy. I use GPS when i go running so i can see where and how far i am going. One example, i ran laps along my yard to see how many would equal a mile. Although you may physically be in the exact same spot each lap, more than likely the gps will report you several tens of feet from where you were before.

Anywho, I still like the idea and the layout of the gps program. I think he's doing a great job with it.

Also, to give you an update, i did in fact play with my idea and got some decent results. I have to play with the math to give accurate lean angles while moving. right now i have overall G's, and static (non moving) lean angles. It's been something i sit down and play with when i'm board. If i get anything working well, i will be sure to post something in the tech form about it.
 

Maryland998

New Member
I'm working on a "Crap-O-Meter"

It tends to read high around B, A and Harley riders.I" group tends read lower as we are usually more realistic. :) Also my "Chrome-O-Meter" and "Noise-O-Meter" so the cruiser crowd can tell for sure who has the coolest baddest bike around.
 

Quantum_Ape

New Member
There's an easy equation to figure out what cruiser is most true to its style. If you can look at the engine and part your hair, your probably good. You also need to effectively turn ANY power that you might have produced directly into sound. And for the leet cruiser class, you need to be able to distort your frame and extend everything beyond anything that would give your bike the ability to function realistically. That should just about cover it :)

But really, cruisers are good for just that, Curzen. I'm a sport rider myself.
 

Quantum_Ape

New Member
Yeah, ok guys. We get that the knees will do the job, thats been established. There are plenty of other reasons to want to play with a data system aside from the fact its just cool.

Not to mention the body acclimates every sensory input it receives and is a terrible judge when it comes to something it needs to be unbiased in. Don't believe me? Ever feel slow driving home after a track day? Next thing you know people will be telling me there riping there thermostat readout off because they can just use there legs to gage the exact temp :p
 

BigKid

New Member
Quantum, I hate to point out but, The body actually is incredible when it comes to adapting. If you spend too much time "anal-izing data" and give up on feel you will go slower. Think about it, if the tire manufacturer says the tire will go 42 degree lean angle do you want a box that warns you when you exceed 42 degree lean angle. I am sure you guys could invent that. When you go to Daytona I would like to see a box that does not say you have exceeded the 42 degree lean angle. Quit worrying about lean angle, it does not matter much when it is not examined with about 7 other variables. You will never be able to calculate those 7 other variables and as a result this is a waste of time. Practice, Practice, Practice and you will all be able to ride better and faster. Data accusition, I am a big fan, Pick your important data, tire spin, speed entery points, apex and exit, suspension travel (big fan of this). The lean-o-meter is not important because it can not be applied without all the variables that actually matter such as, (surface bumps, camber, speed, coeficient of grip on track, coeficient of brand tires, coeficient of said tire at what temp, coeficient of said tire at what air pressure, coeficient of grip of said tire under what weight load, temp of track, temp of tires, propper suspension set up, temperature of suspension and it's ability to dampen, proper weight balance. All of this changes at every track, in every corner, on every day, depending on age of tires, temps, etc. I have not even brought up the RIDER yet. How smooth, how do they weight the bike front to rear and left to right, control inputs. I could go on and on but what it comes down to is buy some pictures if you want to know how leaned over you are. Brian Wink told me when I was evaluating Dave Lockhart for his A bump (me on my R1 Dave on a Aprilia 250), that if I had reached out a little more with my shoulder it could have been on the ground. That picture would be worth more to me than any lean-o-meter. LOL That day I was riding well, had to maintain corner speed so I did not hold up a 250. My body position was helmet below the clip-on, throttle was as delicate as possible, weight was entirely on the inside rearset, back tire was dancing, knee pinned against the side fairing due to the lean angle, all in the largest uphill, on a slight positive camber carousel turn 3 at HPT. Man, I wish I had a picture of that, work towards that and forget the lean-o-meter.

PS, anyone want to see it again, I am going to try it again at HPT in Sept when wink and all the other 2-stroke guys have thier 2-smoke shoot-out.
 

headstart

New Member
Jason, I think you are just a frustrated engineer at heart even bordering on "enginerd" status. Good point- more riding less over-thinking.
 
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