I was there and it was a very bad day. Don't know the reasons. One for sure, very cold and green track till later on. But It's a shame because I'll bet I lost at least 40% of track time due to all the crashes. I was at least playing it cool. Guess what no crash and all my shit is good. Not that hard.
My trackday with SBTT Sunday...
- Thread starter bodell
- Start date
I have also observed that with coaches at other org's events, but I have NEVER, EVER seen that happen at a nesba event. The CRs don't treat it like open practice, or a "free" trackday, but rather work very hard with us, helping us improve, managing traffic when necessary, and making sure people are in the group in which they belong. Just another thing I appreciate about nesba when compared to others. When you get out to do a day with us, you'll see.
And JRA is absolutely right. No matter what an org does, they all have the occasional crashfest. That comes down to you, the riders, who showed up that day and decided you couldn't keep it on two wheels for whatever reason. Sometimes, no matter how good the rider is, shit happens. The org can't ride the damned bike for you. We all have a personal responsibility to follow the rules and not ride above our heads. And to an extent, police ourselves. If you see someone doing something out of line, let a CR, coach, director, whatever they're called with whatever org, know about it.
No one or no one org is perfect. I don't know very many people who have never crashed at a trackday, myself included, even though I always ride in control and never over my head. Sometimes things just don't go as planned.
Great comments!. My post earlier wasn't meant to keep people from offering their opinion, just to keep this an honest discussion and a the thread civil.
I've been at track days as a rider where there have been too many crashes, I've been a CR at track days where there have been too many crashes, and I've been the director of track days where there have been too many crashes. Some times things just go all wrong and no matter how hard you try to drive the point home in rider meetings, it doesn't seem to work.
I'm not sure how STT addresses these problems, but we talk in depth at our CR meetings each day about how to prevent them from ever occurring in the first place. Being proactive is the best course of action, and we do all we can to prevent these kinds of days from happening before they ever get started. Unfortunately we don't always succeed and the bottom line though is what Judy said; we can't ride the bikes for people to keep them from crashing.
Back to the bumping policies for a moment. STT has had their policy since the beginning as have we. It's my belief that our policy leads to a lot more consistency in the pace of each group, as well as gets people to really focus on improving their riding if they want to move up within NESBA because our CR's make the decision and not the rider. I think the evidence that this is a successful policy is borne out by the quality of our riders in each group. People who are riding with us for the first time routinely tell me they are surprised at how fast NESBA is. I say this not as a slam at others, but just to make the point that I think our system has a lot more merit than some give us credit for. With that said, STT does run a good day and a lot of peole like the way they do things. If you go to a STT day expecting it to be a NESBA day under a different name you will likely be disappointed. They have a different system but it works for them.
If you know what to expect from whatever organization you ride with you should be able have a good time, and knowing what to expect should start with carefully reading the rules of the organization
I've been at track days as a rider where there have been too many crashes, I've been a CR at track days where there have been too many crashes, and I've been the director of track days where there have been too many crashes. Some times things just go all wrong and no matter how hard you try to drive the point home in rider meetings, it doesn't seem to work.
I'm not sure how STT addresses these problems, but we talk in depth at our CR meetings each day about how to prevent them from ever occurring in the first place. Being proactive is the best course of action, and we do all we can to prevent these kinds of days from happening before they ever get started. Unfortunately we don't always succeed and the bottom line though is what Judy said; we can't ride the bikes for people to keep them from crashing.
Back to the bumping policies for a moment. STT has had their policy since the beginning as have we. It's my belief that our policy leads to a lot more consistency in the pace of each group, as well as gets people to really focus on improving their riding if they want to move up within NESBA because our CR's make the decision and not the rider. I think the evidence that this is a successful policy is borne out by the quality of our riders in each group. People who are riding with us for the first time routinely tell me they are surprised at how fast NESBA is. I say this not as a slam at others, but just to make the point that I think our system has a lot more merit than some give us credit for. With that said, STT does run a good day and a lot of peole like the way they do things. If you go to a STT day expecting it to be a NESBA day under a different name you will likely be disappointed. They have a different system but it works for them.
If you know what to expect from whatever organization you ride with you should be able have a good time, and knowing what to expect should start with carefully reading the rules of the organization
I mainly ride with NESBA but have ridden a few times with STT here in the Midwest never had a problem I was a fast B in NESBA but signed up for I with STT because I asked a few faster, better NESBIANS where they thought I should run and it was in I . I'm glad I did cause I was one of the better riders in there I group but all had good skills and won't hesitate to ride with STT again. I give full credit to the CRs in NESBA for teaching me the skills I needed to have on the track ! I got my I bump at the last TD this year did all but 1weekend and obviously the CRs felt I needed every one to get it cause that is the way it is in our ORG. and I had no problem with it !
Yea, Saturday was rough... no denying that.
First of all, thanks to all of you here (well, not Bodell - but everyone else) to keeping this a civil and productive discussion. I would not tolerate any NESBA bashing on the STT forum, and I'm glad there's little tolerance for it here.
Secondly, sportbike is one word, so it's:
S- Sportbike
T- Track
T - Time
Yes, NESBA and STT have different ways of doing things - we always have and always will. Get over it. I think for the two orgs to be more the same would be bad for the orgs and give less choice to riders. You like NESBA - stick to NESBA events... same for STT. Some people I'm sure like both. As they say, variety is the spice of life.
Regardless of how things are done, riding on a track is risky business. Anyone who's sat through one of my rider's meetings knows I preach safety as much as I can...
I am not going to defend or justify STT polices regarding the way we allow our riders to sign up - that's something as a director I'm not in control of. I do know our policy has been in place since the beginning of the company with the previous owner. One thing I am in control of as a director is my staff... and I can tell you that our instructors are working 100% on track in their assigned groups. If they want to "play" they can go out in A group... but the rest of the time, they are working. In addition to all the nonsense on Saturday I had to fire a staff member, not because he wasn't doing his job, but because he upset a customer by being too hard on him (hey, there are ways to critique performance and ways NOT to).
As John has said, we've all had our rough days here and there.... it happens. It's part of what we do.
best,
t
First of all, thanks to all of you here (well, not Bodell - but everyone else) to keeping this a civil and productive discussion. I would not tolerate any NESBA bashing on the STT forum, and I'm glad there's little tolerance for it here.
Secondly, sportbike is one word, so it's:
S- Sportbike
T- Track
T - Time
Yes, NESBA and STT have different ways of doing things - we always have and always will. Get over it. I think for the two orgs to be more the same would be bad for the orgs and give less choice to riders. You like NESBA - stick to NESBA events... same for STT. Some people I'm sure like both. As they say, variety is the spice of life.
Regardless of how things are done, riding on a track is risky business. Anyone who's sat through one of my rider's meetings knows I preach safety as much as I can...
I am not going to defend or justify STT polices regarding the way we allow our riders to sign up - that's something as a director I'm not in control of. I do know our policy has been in place since the beginning of the company with the previous owner. One thing I am in control of as a director is my staff... and I can tell you that our instructors are working 100% on track in their assigned groups. If they want to "play" they can go out in A group... but the rest of the time, they are working. In addition to all the nonsense on Saturday I had to fire a staff member, not because he wasn't doing his job, but because he upset a customer by being too hard on him (hey, there are ways to critique performance and ways NOT to).
As John has said, we've all had our rough days here and there.... it happens. It's part of what we do.
best,
t
Trev.. what up dude!! I think all of us are out to achieve the same thing.. RIDE ON THE DAMN TRACK! NESBA, Stt, motovid, and many others that could be named all provide that to us, I've ridden with you & know how you like things to be done & same with Nick, as well as Fred with us, we all want someone to have a great day, have fun & do it safely. Sorry to hear about the crash heavy weekend, its not a good feeling at all.
after that to make sure you stayed on them apex's :rtfm:
Bashing? Not even...
First of all...
What has been productive about this thread? It started with me poking some fun with a graphic and turned on a "Don’t question the policies of the other group" / "Variety is the spice of life" tangent. The discussion here, since everyone is too busy patting each other on the back to remember, was the differences in the bump/signup procedures. Specifically that SBTT (what I call you) does not have one.
Why not address the elephant in the room? This discussion goes much further than this thread. It was throughout your paddock at CMP. Everyone is thinking it, I am just saying it, or rather I am now after being called out in post #2.
In regard to your "safety preaching"...
Explain to this forum why it does not matter how wide the skill set range is in the advanced group.
Address how the 30+ second range in lap times in your Advanced group also don’t matter.
Furthermore, I remember your rider's meeting. I also remember you telling everyone that you were filming a SBTT commercial and to "put on a show for the cameras" so that you might be seen in a video mid January. Did this not contribute to the events of the day?
I have done many days with Mark Sheldon and I can assure you that the crashes at this last event were an irregularity. I am not calling your org dangerous or saying I am going to avoid it. I am saying that the crashes at CMP were in part due to the large number of riders placing themselves in a group beyond their skill set.
Excuse me? That is an ABSOLUTE bullshit LIE sir. This was NEVER said during the rider's meeting. F*ck you.
Nealy Bayly was there with a crew from SPEED... what they were doing and what they were shooting I have no clue about... but that's their business. I did not mention them during the rider's meeting at all. I did not mention anything about anyone doing any filming there during the rider's meeting.
You'd be best to stay away from me face-to-face... I don't appreciate liars.
t
Mr Trevormastermind;224003 wrote: Yea, Saturday was rough... no denying that.
First of all, thanks to all of you here (well, not Bodell - but everyone else) to keeping this a civil and productive discussion. I would not tolerate any NESBA bashing on the STT forum, and I'm glad there's little tolerance for it here.
Secondly, sportbike is one word, so it's:
S- Sportbike
T- Track
T - Time
Yes, NESBA and STT have different ways of doing things - we always have and always will. Get over it. I think for the two orgs to be more the same would be bad for the orgs and give less choice to riders. You like NESBA - stick to NESBA events... same for STT. Some people I'm sure like both. As they say, variety is the spice of life.
Regardless of how things are done, riding on a track is risky business. Anyone who's sat through one of my rider's meetings knows I preach safety as much as I can...
I am not going to defend or justify STT polices regarding the way we allow our riders to sign up - that's something as a director I'm not in control of. I do know our policy has been in place since the beginning of the company with the previous owner. One thing I am in control of as a director is my staff... and I can tell you that our instructors are working 100% on track in their assigned groups. If they want to "play" they can go out in A group... but the rest of the time, they are working. In addition to all the nonsense on Saturday I had to fire a staff member, not because he wasn't doing his job, but because he upset a customer by being too hard on him (hey, there are ways to critique performance and ways NOT to).
As John has said, we've all had our rough days here and there.... it happens. It's part of what we do.
best,
t
Thanks for the informative post. I'm certain I speak for majority of the people when I say this:
Several of us ride both orgs.
STT crew is definitely bunch of cool guys/girls and, so, are respected as such within the community.
Also several of us are glad that you're there cause then there are options on dates with several tracks.
But
I sincerely hope and wish that you will consider changing the one rule;
-No first time sign-up into A
-To evaluate riders for bump into 'A' group. Also, to clean up the current A group. As a pilot program in south east ?
like said before, self evaluation and Ego will always make people call themselves 'A' vs earning 'A'.
you'll see that people who are running the pace, will have no problem with that rule change.
anyone who cries and whines goes on top of the list for evaluation. haha
just my 2 cents