NJMP - A little rant (and request for any gopro videos of the crash)

[z064life]

So I brought 3 guys to NJMP all from 13-20hrs away. On Sunday someone with either a green bike or green helmet ran into my buddy on his Black R6 at the fish hook and sent him to the wall.

His season is now over and he is likely to be out of work for a few weeks (fractured vertibre and cracked ribs).

1) This is A group, there is NO reason to be out of control at a trackday in this group. Anyone that has gotten the bump to A presumably knows how to ride.

2) If the unfortunate happens, which I understand we all take risks out everytime we throw a leg over our bike. Have the balls to at least come by and appologize and make sure the rider you just took out is ok.

I'm not sure which pisses me off more, the fact he got hit, or the fact the guy never came by. There is no way he didn't know he made contact.

The reason we know it was a green bike or helmet (or had green on it) is because there was paint transfer to my buddies helmet.

This was the session after lunch on Sunday...Black R6 #11 in A group.

Not sure what it is about Thunderbolt, but that it invites close passing, and trading paint, but I can tell you while I love the track, I'm not sure we will be making a return trip with the race mentality that seems to be prevelant there.

 

[HondaGalToo]

Sorry to hear about your friend. I can certainly relate and agree with all your points. I was passed close many times, but luckily no contact.
I hope your friend heals up soon.

 

[mouimet]

I am sorry to hear about your friend. I was out during the session and was through that turn right before him. I understand that we are all out there to have fun and more importantly be safe. However, I did notice that there is a massive disparity in this group. In fact, more than any other NESBA day that I have done, there was a huge range of laptimes out there that ranged from high - 20's to the high 40s (perhaps even higher than that).

 

[z064life]

mouimet;290543 wrote: I am sorry to hear about your friend. I was out during the session and was through that turn right before him. I understand that we are all out there to have fun and more importantly be safe. However, I did notice that there is a massive disparity in this group. In fact, more than any other NESBA day that I have done, there was a huge range of laptimes out there that ranged from high - 20's to the high 40s (perhaps even higher than that).

if you hold your line, it shouldn't matter if you are running a 2 minute lap time..I wouldn't need to trade paint to get around you. He's on an old, underpowered bike and wasn't pushing it because he wanted to make sure he made it through the weekend to attend Barber in Nov...so much for that.

A group isn't about speed, it's about control and predictability. I'll take a guy running high 40s and 50s that is controlled and holds a line over a guy that is running low 30s out of control.

 

[noobinacan]

Just sad in every way...

Is there something about NJMP ? or just that fact of its location that it attracts random idiots and douche bag's ?
Sorry to hear about your buddy..hope he heals up quick

 

[PATBAROK]

noobinacan;290548 wrote: Is there something about NJMP ? or just that fact of its location that it attracts random idiots and douche bag's ?

:agree:

i did the Penguin School at Loudon and wanted to do it again b4 the end of season and saw that they were doing their 2 day'er at NJMP this year and it also overlapped with a TPM trackday....NO Thank You!

But I also did hear that Sunday was just way too crowded-I was happy that I ended up going on Monday instead. This is also one of the main reason, I only do weekdays for my TD's

Very sorry to hear bout your buddy-hope he heals up quick!

 

[CBRtist]

I'm sure there was overflow due to the cancelled SED days, so the groups were probably at maximum capacity. It's not always in the numbers, it's 50 responsible, courteous riders vs. 50 of the "other kind" of riders.

Did I hear correctly that a gang (from NY?) showed up? Unless one of them is Jax... I'm not really comfortable with that.

Should I start working on my NESBA gang signs and duck face? ... wouldn't it just be "East Coast"? :notsure:

Very sorry about your friend and it's even worse that they walked away with a bad taste in their mouth. Hope you get some video and it helps.

 

[borislav]

So sorry about your friend, I hope he will have fast and full recovery!
Unfortunately NJMP attracts people from New Jersey and New York who think they are next Rossi!!!
Now keep in mind those individuals are just few rotten apples and there is no way to know that until it's to late!
Don't eliminate NJMP from your calendar because 1-3% of the people on that track day MAY be d..kheads!!!
This can happen anywhere!!!

 

[ToddG]

mouimet;290543 wrote: I am sorry to hear about your friend. I was out during the session and was through that turn right before him. I understand that we are all out there to have fun and more importantly be safe. However, I did notice that there is a massive disparity in this group. In fact, more than any other NESBA day that I have done, there was a huge range of laptimes out there that ranged from high - 20's to the high 40s (perhaps even higher than that).

Let me pipe in here, there is NO Reason what so ever that because you're seeing lap time differences out there to have contact! If your in the advanced group you should have a very good handle on your speed/depth perception. You should be able to judge your closing speeds quite well. Everyone needs to learn do patience out there and remember its a Track Day!!!

 

[HondaGalToo]

Agreed, Todd. You'd think so, but I was also passed very, very close and fast several times. I was also twice stuffed up the inside in turn 10, one time having to alter my line so as to avoid contact. Sunday was worse as it was more crowded. I was apologized to, I was ok as no contact was made, but if contact was made and I was broken up, well, those apologies then don't mean a whole lot.

About this time last year I was beat up and debated even riding this season. I decided to come out. I had fun, but couldn't get back to the pace I was at pre-assault. I also did about half the number of days this year that I normally do. I only see them becoming less in the future. I've been told I exaggerate when I say that at just about every trackday someone is taken out....but incidents, especially at NJMP, while ones where actual contact is made may not be at every track day, they are all too frequent. I was almost hit about 4 times. Got lucky. This time.

I'm tired of preaching about it. It doesn't do any damned good and people (not all, probably just 1-3%) continue to ride like douchebags. But those 1-3% can ruin your day. Or your life. But they're also the ones who will never listen.

 

[mike574]

ToddG;290566 wrote: Let me pipe in here, there is NO Reason what so ever that because you're seeing lap time differences out there to have contact! If your in the advanced group you should have a very good handle on your speed/depth perception. You should be able to judge your closing speeds quite well. Everyone needs to learn do patience out there and remember its a Track Day!!!

:agree:


I think alot of people forget IT IS A TRACK DAY!!! there is no reason for close passing or stuffing if you have to think about the pass and your not 100% sure you will make it, don't do it wait til the next passing op. There is no money or throphys at a track day, if you want that go racing.

 

[mouimet]

ToddG;290566 wrote: Let me pipe in here, there is NO Reason what so ever that because you're seeing lap time differences out there to have contact! If your in the advanced group you should have a very good handle on your speed/depth perception. You should be able to judge your closing speeds quite well. Everyone needs to learn do patience out there and remember its a Track Day!!!

That isn't what I said. Re-read the comment. There was a tremendous disparity in the speeds on the track that day - would you argue that? There are two sides of the story and we have not heard any of them yet! All we have heard is that some unknown bike made contact with his he has some green paint on his helmet. How does that happen? Was there paint on his bike? Did anyone see a guy hit him? What is the other guy's story?

 

[steve gould]

mouimet;290571 wrote: That isn't what I said. Re-read the comment. There was a tremendous disparity in the speeds on the track that day - would you argue that? There are two sides of the story and we have not heard any of them yet! All we have heard is that some unknown bike made contact with his he has some green paint on his helmet. How does that happen? Was there paint on his bike? Did anyone see a guy hit him? What is the other guy's story?

I had a similar situation at VIR this year. A guy was pitting with another SE CR and said I bumped him and ran him off the track. Said CR came over to my pit to ask me about it. I said wow, lets look at the GoPro I had running and see. Coming up to turn four, I was following Vinny and we split a slower group of riders, one rider, the one who crashed, got spooked when another rider went underneath him and stood his bike up right into me, bumped me, continued his straight path off the track and fell down. Now, I'm not saying the OP's buddy had any fault but perception and reality can sometimes be different.

 

[John Weibley]

John Weibley CR

I hate to hear when someone makes contact and I hope your friend will be ok. The question I have is did anyone go to the powers to be during the day and complain about these nuckleheads and the unsafe way they were riding? It does not matter what class they are riding in they are required to ride in a safe manner. All passes are to be clean and safe. That is the bottom line. If no one said anything then it is really hard to do anything about it now. If nothing else tell one of the CR's. As a CR I would have watched and talked to them to clean up if they don't their day is over. It is up to you riders out there to tell the CR's or the director when this stuff is going on. The offending riders will be dealt with.Keep in mind when you are riding A class any CR's out there are out to play the same as you and may not see what is going on.Speak up and save everyone some pain.

 

[Meat]

Sorry your buddy had such a bad experience.

This is another reason we all need to get out and talk to others in our run groups. Not only does it help us recognize them on the track and learn how to pass them better/safer because of it, but you are also much less likely (usually) to be taken out by someone you actually know. I also have friends I can pass very tight and others I need to give more room, but I only know that because interact with them in the paddock or text, etcetera.

Along with rider skill, I think knowing each other is one of the reasons for such close, safe and confident riding in A-group (usually). I think the economic downturn has also effected this as the same A-group riders can't make it to most track days like they used to.

I'm one that just likes to sit under my canopy and relax between sessions (morning, lunch and night too). I really need to get out and socialize a bit more with the newer and out-of-region A-group guys.

 

[motorkas]

John Weibley;290574 wrote: I hate to hear when someone makes contact and I hope your friend will be ok. The question I have is did anyone go to the powers to be during the day and complain about these nuckleheads and the unsafe way they were riding? It does not matter what class they are riding in they are required to ride in a safe manner. All passes are to be clean and safe. That is the bottom line. If no one said anything then it is really hard to do anything about it now. If nothing else tell one of the CR's. As a CR I would have watched and talked to them to clean up if they don't their day is over. It is up to you riders out there to tell the CR's or the director when this stuff is going on. The offending riders will be dealt with.Keep in mind when you are riding A class any CR's out there are out to play the same as you and may not see what is going on.Speak up and save everyone some pain.
John,

I can't speak for A group but the CR's were quite busy in the other groups (pulling people off for just all around dumb shit). . .my brother and I commented that they deserved "hazard pay" for that day. Every single one we talked to told us they pulled at least 3 people out a session for breaking the rules. The inmates just outnumber the guards that day. . .

This is another reason we all need to get out and talk to others in our run groups. Not only does it help us recognize them on the track and learn how to pass them better/safer because of it, but you are also much less likely (usually) to be taken out by someone you actually know. I also have friends I can pass very tight and others I need to give more room, but I only know that because interact with them in the paddock or text, etcetera.

Along with rider skill, I think knowing each other is one of the reasons for such close, safe and confident riding in A-group (usually). I think the economic downturn has also effected this as the same A-group riders can't make it to most track days like they used to.

I'm one that just likes to sit under my canopy and relax between sessions (morning, lunch and night too). I really need to get out and socialize a bit more with the newer and out-of-region A-group guys.

Excellent point!!!!!!!! Couldn't agree with you more. . .but believe me, there were some people there. . .oh Lord have mercy. . .(but then again, they were probably thinking the same thing about me. . .

OP - sorry to hear about your friend - hope he heals up quickly!!!!!!!!

 

[Unbroken13]

I had a close call at ncbike in September.. Was pissed about it... But after seeing it on someone's gopro I realized what felt like a inside pass in I group wasn't at all... it might have been a little late but it was clean... Sometimes perception is a little off at 100 mph... Lol... With that said its also hard to know who some one was on the track... Hard to put a face to a helmet... So apologies aren't always heard just cause u don't know who it was...

 

[noobinacan]

HondaGalToo;290568 wrote: Agreed, Todd. You'd think so, but I was also passed very, very close and fast several times. I was also twice stuffed up the inside in turn 10, both times having to alter my line so as to avoid contact. Sunday was worse as it was more crowded. I was apologized to, I was ok as no contact was made, but if contact was made and I was broken up, well, those apologies then don't mean a whole lot.

About this time last year I was beat up and debated even riding this season. I decided to come out. I had fun, but couldn't get back to the pace I was at pre-assault. I also did about half the number of days this year that I normally do. I only see them becoming less in the future. I've been told I exaggerate when I say that at just about every trackday someone is taken out....but incidents, especially at NJMP, while ones where actual contact is made may not be at every track day, they are all too frequent. I was almost hit about 4 times. Got lucky. This time.

I'm tired of preaching about it. It doesn't do any damned good and people (not all, probably just 1-3%) continue to ride like douchebags. But those 1-3% can ruin your day. Or your life. But they're also the ones who will never listen.

wow...Judy
That was not fun to read!!

 

[vinny337]

I hope your friend has a speedy recovery! To label NJMP as a track that allows trading paint and close passes is a bit of exaggeration. John summed it up...

 

[vinny337]

steve gould;290572 wrote: I had a similar situation at VIR this year. A guy was pitting with another SE CR and said I bumped him and ran him off the track. Said CR came over to my pit to ask me about it. I said wow, lets look at the GoPro I had running and see. Coming up to turn four, I was following Vinny and we split a slower group of riders, one rider, the one who crashed, got spooked when another rider went underneath him and stood his bike up right into me, bumped me, continued his straight path off the track and fell down. Now, I'm not saying the OP's buddy had any fault but perception and reality can sometimes be different.

Yeah, I remember that...