Hitting the wall (not literally...)

dammyneckhurts

New Member
You need to have a plan of exactly what are you going to do differently at what part of the track. In order to do something different you have to know exactly what you are doing now. You need specific reference points to give you this information, then before you go out for a session have a plan for how you are going to change things in relation to your reference points...braking, turn in etc...

We all like chasing a fast buddy....it's a blast...but unless you have your own "mental process" for each turn its hard to be consistanly fast when your buddy is gone, and as you get faster and faster it becomes more and more difficult to decrease lap times.

Another issue is many people have way too much bike, it has so much power they are too scared to keep the throttle pinned all the way down the straight up to the brake marker and then use the brakes to their max potential.....they let off...coast a bit....brake a bit...coast some more...brake a bit more and then finally enter the corner. Bottom line is that its just way too fast for their comfort zone.

For some the bike is killing the learning ability, if some of these people were on low power bikes it would be way easier for them to grasp the concept of full throttle up the the brake marker, max brakes ..trail braking into the corner with a higher entry speed etc.

Some previous posters make good points in this too much bike idea by advising people to go down the straights at partial throttle. It eliminates the holy shit factor. As Kieth Code says you only have so much brain space......if you are spending it all thinking "dam this is fast" you have nothing left to make a plan on how to improve your riding.

My 2 cents worth....
 

PJZOCC624

New Member
Agreed... great input from everyone! Yeah, Mary, I guess I need to stop overthinking things and just go out and have fun.

Ryan, thanks for the GPS offer... next time I see you I'll take you up on it!

I also need to get to more tracks. I did Summit Main, NJ-Thunderbolt, and Beave this year. I will probably hit Beave in October, and maybe Jersey before this season's done. Maybe if I broaden my scope of tracks, this too will improve my skills (need to get a school worked in there next year).

Next time out, I'll definitely have a purposeful game plan for each session, and work on one thing at a time. Again, I don't want to be reckless, and I feel comfortable out there and now I need to just step up my game!
 
dammyneckhurts;16902 wrote: You need to have a plan of exactly what are you going to do differently at what part of the track. In order to do something different you have to know exactly what you are doing now. You need specific reference points to give you this information, then before you go out for a session have a plan for how you are going to change things in relation to your reference points...braking, turn in etc...

We all like chasing a fast buddy....it's a blast...but unless you have your own "mental process" for each turn its hard to be consistanly fast when your buddy is gone, and as you get faster and faster it becomes more and more difficult to decrease lap times.

Another issue is many people have way too much bike, it has so much power they are too scared to keep the throttle pinned all the way down the straight up to the brake marker and then use the brakes to their max potential.....they let off...coast a bit....brake a bit...coast some more...brake a bit more and then finally enter the corner. Bottom line is that its just way too fast for their comfort zone.

For some the bike is killing the learning ability, if some of these people were on low power bikes it would be way easier for them to grasp the concept of full throttle up the the brake marker, max brakes ..trail braking into the corner with a higher entry speed etc.

Some previous posters make good points in this too much bike idea by advising people to go down the straights at partial throttle. It eliminates the holy shit factor. As Kieth Code says you only have so much brain space......if you are spending it all thinking "dam this is fast" you have nothing left to make a plan on how to improve your riding.

My 2 cents worth....
Great post.

I especially like "the holy shit factor". I've had a few problems with that myself.

I am glad NESBA puts out the cones. I have a hard time picking spots on the track to use as refrence points and those orange cones really help.

Last track day I was all over the place first couple laps and was wondering why. Then I realized I wasn't using the cones.

BZ
 

Chris K

New Member
I'm a big fan of the "KISS" method. (Keep It Simple Stupid) Every session I try to work on just one thing. And I keep working on that one thing until it becomes second nature to me and eventually muscle memory. For Example: keeping my head down, dropping my elbows in a turn, keeping a super light grip on the clip-ons during a turn, finishing my breaking early, rolling on the throttle early, consistently spotting reference points etc,. Again, it's mental overload if you are focusing on all of the above at the same time. Just keep focusing on one of them and don't change your focus until you feel like you have a good handle on the one before. Then...watch the lap times drop! (not while you're riding of coarse)

That being said, there's nothing wrong with finding a Rabbit every once in a while! :D

I'm also a big fan of racing schools. They are a great tool if you can afford them.
 

Keith

New Member
Great post. As has been said everyone is different. For me I have to push myself a little out of comfort to move my ability up. Its what works for me. When I dont do this I feel like im just going through the motions not learning anything. Have been doing this for about 2 1/2 years and the first 2 all I really worked on was form and of course you naturally get faster. Now im working on increasing my speed,later braking. For me its the way to go. Get a strong foundation with form and then when u start going faster at least ya know you wont do something bad due to poor form and fighting the bike. Of course we never stop working on form either but ya get the point. As I have been told by CR, im actually the odd ball as I do good on corner speed (strong point) but have to work on the straights to stay on the throttle longer and trust the brakes. We all have our issues that we can battle. Its funny because I have dragged raced for about 10 years before starting on trackdays. You would think that the straight would be my strong point.
 

PJZOCC624

New Member
Well, since Monday is to be my last track day this season, I figure I'm really gonna let it all hang out and push the limits. I want to see where the limits REALLY are (cornerspeed, lean angle, tire traction, maximum braking, etc). I'm rationalizing a couple things: its my last day this year, and if I do wad the whole thing up tomorrow, I've got untill April to heal up and get the bike put back together. Plus, if I AM riding at 110% and pushing way past my comfort level, I can use that as a guide for next season as to how much to dial it down, or how much more I can push things. I figure I'll take off all the high $ bits off before I get out there, in case I do crash, and the bike is a total disaster, I can sell off those things to help get a new bike over the winter (be a good excuse to get a new one!). I've concluded that I'm way overthinking this whole thing, and am just gonna go out there, close my eyes (not literally), and wring the neck on the GIX6 and see what happens... maybe I crash, maybe I don't, maybe I learn something, maybe I set a track record, maybe I end up busting my squash.... I just need to stop worrying about that stuff so much and just go really fast. And if something gets in my way... turn. So if you're out at NJ on Monday, stop by and say "HI" or wish me luck in my quest for speed. If you see me out on the track, you might wanna back off just a bit, because there's no telling where/when I'm gonna do something spectacular....

.... or ridiculous.
 

dpullen

New Member
PJ, before you let it all hang out...something you might want to consider. Most of the time, when someone crashes and it ends their day/season, that crash sticks with them, and it takes a long time to recover and get confidence back. On the other hand, a smaller crash that does not end the day, where you can get back out and ride, usually doesn't result in this loss of confidence.

Letting it all hang out with a big wreck could cause you to take a huge step backward for a good part of next season. Throwing caution to the wind can result in a big wreck, and what's worse, you probably won't really have a feel for what it is that caused the wreck, so you won't learn much of anything from it.

If you approach things a bit more slowly and methodically, you'll approach the limit more gracefully, and you will feel when the tires start to slide, or when your toes scrape the ground, or when you get a little bit of head-shake, or when the rear starts to spin up...and you will know what you did to cause that, and can back off from it.

Just my 2 bits...regardless, I hope you enjoy your last track day, and that you find what you're looking for!

- Dave
 

STEAKUM

Member
PJ - glad to hear that you'll be down!:cheers: I'm heading down this afternoon and will look for ya there, don't throw caution to the wind and go balls out just for a season closer (you've gotta go to DaBeve anyhow!!) lets BS a little tomorrow am and you'll go out with 'a plan' and work on individual steps that will lead to seconds.:wow:
 

Keith

New Member
Sorry guys but thats a bad way to go. Think about the possibility of taking someone else out with you. You could also get hurt in a bad way and have some serious medical bills. I think some of us are saying we push ourselves a little not to the point of crashing. Just my thoughts.
 

PJZOCC624

New Member
i need to disclose my previous post as just a goof! im really not planning on going bonzai out there tomorrow... but on the off chance that i have a mishap i dont want people to think i was being reckless. im going to approach this like any other day and hopefully make some small improvements to end the year on a good note!
 

Folly1

New Member
PJ,

My reaction was the same as Keith's, but I have a history of reading your posts and could see the humor it it, after the 3rd reading.

You expressed some of my own frustration. I am cursed with a riding partner who has 300% more talent than I was blessed with. The only consolation is that I tell a better story and might be better looking. I would still swap with him. Anyway, for the time being, I am taking our CR's at their word. Smooth and precise will produce speed.

Good luck to you.

Ben.
 

PJZOCC624

New Member
:D:DBIG fun at NJ yesterday:D:D

I stepped it up and made big improvements. Gotta work now but BIG THANKS to everyones input!
 

PJZOCC624

New Member
review of NJ

So I thought I would give some post-track review of how I did at Jersey. I tried my best to not overthink everything and just go out and ride for the fun of it. The first session was a little cool, and I took it easy, taking my time getting up to speed. As the day went on I felt like I was getting smoother and more comfortable. I got into my own groove and started to pick up the pace as the sessions went on. In the afternoon, I got with Jim and Steve in the "I" group and we had a great time mixing it up, and pushing each other to improve. I found a couple favorite passing zones in turn 4 and turn 8. One lap, going into 8, I had 4 bikes in front of me and went around three in 8 and caught the fourth going onto the front straight. I gotta say, that one felt goooooood! By the end of the day, I looked at all my lap times and found I really had progressed as I thought I had. For those that like hard numbers:

My avg times in the morning sessions: 1.50.5

For the afternoon, my avg: 1.43.9

Best a.m. lap: 1.45.3
Best p.m. lap: 1.40.4

I just sat down to figure out the avgs, and to see the numbers like that really helps to put things together. Now I know I wasn't setting lap records, but it sure felt like things really came together for me! And I felt 100% comfortable and totally in control, not riding over my head.

So thanks to everyone for your input! It definitely helped!!!:D:D:D:D
 

speedfree

New Member
This is a really good thread - I wish I'd made it to the party sooner!

I like to use all the methods mentioned - the incremental, the rabbit, the RP. Nothing will improve your riding like riding!
 
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