Why did I low-side?

[Mikey75702]

redrdr;217817 wrote: You guys are killing me with the blueninja reference. I'm at least here trying to figure out what when wrong and what to focus on for improve my riding skills. Comparing me to someone asking for prayers for a bruise!?! Well, I guess I'll just pretend some are tyring to add humor as opposed to dealing a low blow. I guess I'll just have to stick around long enough to prove that I'm no where near close to that guy.

If anyone is still reading any trying to be constructive, any suggestions on entering a corner? Let me know if I need to start a new thread as most seem to be getting side-tracked at this point. I've noticed this is a tough sport to target what areas need to be improved. I even know I think I'm doing one thing, but I have no idea of knowing I'm actually doing another.

Well, I think this is a result of corner entry. I took a riding class, and it was pointed out to me that I tend to turn in early. Well, I've been working on it. I think I may have developed a bad habit. I've been wait longer to start turning, which has really opened up the track. This was a great improvemnet. I've been noticing that I am starting to weight the outside peg, get a good grip on the outside bar, and lean into the turn and pull on the outside bar. This really helps to get the bike into the turn quickly. I think when my body stops leaning further (finds the necessary lean position), the weight comes off of the outside foot. This seems to be what I did on Saturday. How do some more experienced riders handle this? Focus on using my foot to push my knee into the gas tank to ensure I have a good anchor point?
jcurtis;217822 wrote: Yep. Stick with this.

No one here knows your abilities or your current skill level so it is hard to give you feedback. IMHO, this is a hands-on experience that cannot be learned on the BBS... (Insert BlueNinja reference).

The CR's are interested in helping. We have a lot of talent in this Org. What I suggest is that you come out and talk to the CR's and have them follow you around for a few laps and give some feedback. Listen and try to apply the feedback, then ask to be followed. Rinse and repeat over and over....

When are you riding next? Will you be there this weekend?

Please listen to Jim...... I too liked to try to over analyze my riding and it didn't do squat for me. I learned more from one weekend working with the same guys that are giving you advice, then I could in years of trying to do it on my own. Go to the racetrack, and talk to the B group captian after the morning meeting. Introduce yourself, and tell them you would like to work on your riding.... Tell them what you feel like you are doing wrong, and when they ride with you, they can confirm it or send you on a whole nother course. But the most important thing is to listen to them. These guys are awesome teachers (and can ride a bit too ).

 

[madriders86]

redrdr;217736 wrote: I've already done this, but it raises a good point! This is contradictory to a lot of other advice here. Many have said work on your skills rather than buy better equipment, such as better tires. Isn't getting a 600 the same as buying better tires? Shouldn't a rider work on throttle control rather than buy a less powerful bike? The less powerful bike would cover the problem as opposed to learning how to ride better.:notsure: Just stirring the pot with this one.
nonononononononono. At the risk of opening another can of works with this one, no. I understand what you're saying, but that just isn't the case. If you want to make significant improvements to your riding abilities much more quickly, stepping down to a less powerful bike will help a lot. You will be able to focus more on the important fundamentals. "Throttle control" (I cringe every time I hear that term) is something that you will usually pick up rather quickly as you get comfortable with whatever bike you're riding.

redrdr;217817 wrote:
If anyone is still reading any trying to be constructive, any suggestions on entering a corner? Let me know if I need to start a new thread as most seem to be getting side-tracked at this point. I've noticed this is a tough sport to target what areas need to be improved. I even know I think I'm doing one thing, but I have no idea of knowing I'm actually doing another.

Well, I think this is a result of corner entry. I took a riding class, and it was pointed out to me that I tend to turn in early. Well, I've been working on it. I think I may have developed a bad habit. I've been wait longer to start turning, which has really opened up the track. This was a great improvemnet. I've been noticing that I am starting to weight the outside peg, get a good grip on the outside bar, and lean into the turn and pull on the outside bar. This really helps to get the bike into the turn quickly. I think when my body stops leaning further (finds the necessary lean position), the weight comes off of the outside foot. This seems to be what I did on Saturday. How do some more experienced riders handle this? Focus on using my foot to push my knee into the gas tank to ensure I have a good anchor point?

Every corner is different.

I don't weight the outside peg much if at all. Maybe when I'm exiting the corner, but that's it. I don't think about it too much. I can go through a corner at a pretty quick pace with my outside foot off the peg. Watch motogp or ama qualifying at laguna seca and watch for a rider signalling that he is pitting.

You are putting a lot of thought into this stuff. Get a less powerful bike and I promise it will all come much easier. Worked for me pretty well so far.

 

[Gorecki]

redrdr - please take 15 seconds to change your signature information so people who haven't read this thread entirely understand you are no longer in the group and now riding an R6?

Shutting up again.... opcorn:

 

[redrdr]

Mikey75702;217888 wrote: I learned more from one weekend working with the same guys that are giving you advice, then I could in years of trying to do it on my own.

I've noticed this is really dependent upon the person coaching/observing you. I'm riding with TPM this year. At one point, I asked to get bumped from B to I. After observing me, the coach said I wasn't ready for I group. He said my speed was fine, but I needed to work on my lines. He said to practice and try again later. End of conversation and he rode off.

From a rider standpoint, his advice was not very useful. There was no turn later in this corner, or use this other line in this other corner. Generic advice doesn't point a person in the direction of how to do things correctly. I guess after a few experiences that didn't yield any results, I've found it better to use the forums for analysis.

 

[sobottka]

redrdr;217956 wrote: I've found it better to use the forums for analysis.

you have 3 laps to complete a stop and go for this infraction.

 

[redrdr]

sobottka;217826 wrote: sounds a little like you're kinda falling off the bike, maybe you're hanging off too much? or focus on pushing yourself off the bike with your outside leg (and keep it weighted) instead of squatting down on the inside leg.

I haven't had this problem up to this point. In the beginning, I was weighting the inside peg. My quads and knees were hurting at the end of the day due to the stress. I've made a point of putting pressure on the outside peg.

I think maybe my seating position may be a contributing factor. I know this weekend, I was sitting very close to the tank. This helped me put pressure on the bars when going into a turn. I noticed on my ride home yesterday, I was experimenting with moving left-to-right on the seat. If I sat right up against the tank, my inner thigh would grip when I moved sideways, and my weight would be on my butt (knee comes off of the tank and foot got light on the peg). My hips were forced to rotate away from the turn to accomodate the position change. I noticed if I sat back a few inches, moving left and right kept the knee on the tank and the foot on the peg. This didn't cause my hips to rotate to the outside either. It seems like a few inches between me and the tank allows for better body positioning.

 

[HondaGalToo]

Pretty sure Mikey was talking about nesba CRs. not TPM coaches. I find that the feedback given by nesba CRs is generally more detailed and specific than that of coaches in other organizations. Are you still riding with nesba as well?

 

[redrdr]

sobottka;217959 wrote:
you have 3 laps to complete a stop and go for this infraction.

Wow, I don't think I've seen anyone meetballed on a forum yet. Well, I heard a saying once that really states how I tend to live.

"Making the right decisions comes from wisdom,
Wisdom comes from making the wrong decision"

I'm definitely gaining my wisdom.

 

[Gorecki]

Chris,

From your last post, it appears to me you do have work to do on body position. Where you started out sounds to be more along the lines of correct because your knees and quads were getting tired from being used as additional suspension instead of being planted on your butt. Your first change of being closer to the tank, rotating around the tank, pressure on the bars? ALL wrong! There should be NO real pressure on the bars, you should feel like you can almost let go of them! But from the sounds of it you're lead back to better getting away from the tank but (it sounds like) you still need to get some of the weight off your butt and on the pegs again.

Granted I make it clear I'm not the most experienced and someone may come along and disagree, but the sorts of thing I'm suggesting are because I was told by a CR I needed to get my ass off the seat, and when it clicked, the result was REALLY CLEAR. There was a newly found sense of balance and control. But at the end of the first full day of this, my legs/knees were NOT happy! But that part gets better with conditioning.

 

[redrdr]

HondaGalToo;217964 wrote: Pretty sure Mikey was talking about nesba CRs. not TPM coaches. I find that the feedback given by nesba CRs is generally more detailed and specific than that of coaches in other organizations. Are you still riding with nesba as well?

I didn't do any days this year. I tend to ride on the weekends at NJMP. I noticed NESBA didn't have a lot of days where I can attend this year. I'll keep an eye out for next year.

 

[jcurtis]

redrdr;217966 wrote: Wow, I don't think I've seen anyone meetballed on a forum yet. Well, I heard a saying once that really states how I tend to live.

"Making the right decisions comes from wisdom,
Knowledge comes from making the wrong decision,
wisdom is learning from others mistakes and not making the same decisions"

I'm definitely gaining my wisdom.

Fixerated it for you.

 

[dlockhart5x]

redrdr;217961 wrote: This helped me put pressure on the bars when going into a turn..

This part stands out to me.

I try to put as little pressure on my hands as possible. In the dirt or at a bumpy track like Nelson Ledges I'll let the bars rattle in my finger tips, gripping as little as possible, letting the front tire try to find it's way. You can steer the bike right out from underneath yourself with heavy inputs

If you want to have fun and learn a bunch. Go buy a cheap dirt bike and do tight figure 8s, drifting in the principals lawn. You will learn to seperate your control inputs from the bikes feedback.

 

[redrdr]

Gorecki;217968 wrote: Chris,

From your last post, it appears to me you do have work to do on body position. Where you started out sounds to be more along the lines of correct because your knees and quads were getting tired from being used as additional suspension instead of being planted on your butt. Your first change of being closer to the tank, rotating around the tank, pressure on the bars? ALL wrong! There should be NO real pressure on the bars, you should feel like you can almost let go of them! But from the sounds of it you're lead back to better getting away from the tank but (it sounds like) you still need to get some of the weight off your butt and on the pegs again.

Granted I make it clear I'm not the most experienced and someone may come along and disagree, but the sorts of thing I'm suggesting are because I was told by a CR I needed to get my ass off the seat, and when it clicked, the result was REALLY CLEAR. There was a newly found sense of balance and control. But at the end of the first full day of this, my legs/knees were NOT happy! But that part gets better with conditioning.

When you say getting your ass off of the seat, what do you mean? Vertically or horizontally?

Where I started is probably different from what you're thinking. To clarify, I was squatting on the inside peg. My muscles didn't get tired at all. It was joint pain in my knees from having weight on it the entire time. Think of squatting as far as you can for an extended period fo time, kind of like pulling lower fairing without putting your knees on the ground. My knees hurt from all of the weight being on them. In the beginning I think I was too far off of the seat as I had about 1.5 cheeks on to the inside of the turn. I've moved to a more balanced 1 cheek on and 1 off approach.

The pressure on the bars is to get the initial turn-in. Is this completely wrong? I'm sure I do some amount of counter steering naturally. I've noticed that I can get the bike turned in much faster if I pull on the outside bar to add some extra counter steer. Sitting close to the tank helps me get leverage on the outside peg, so this is reason for this bad habit. Once bike is turned-in, I'm very light on the bars.

On saturday, I put pressure on my foot and hand to get into the turn. When the pressure eased, by body slide and my foot lifted. Try it sitting in a chair. Lean hard to the left. You should feel pressure on the right cheek initially. Once you stop changing your lean angle, the pressure will swith to the left cheek. I think this is what happened and why my foot came off.

Any suggestions on the proper way to turn in?

 

[Gorecki]

redrdr;217975 wrote: When you say getting your ass off of the seat, what do you mean? Vertically or horizontally?

Essentially, both! The butt should only be fully weighting the seat when sitting in pit-out, pit-in or tucked in and on a straight. I *thought* I was getting off in a corner but really was more like leaning over the side because I wasn't really standing on the pegs. The greatest contact points should be standing on the inside peg, AND standing on the outside peg with your inner outside leg pinned against the machine and tank. Not grasping the outside, but a leaning support, leverage point...or pivot. So basically the butt isn't really sitting, it may be in contact with the seat but there really isn't any full weight on it because the legs are doing most of that work.

This thread comes to mind for discussion but it get's clouded (as most do). http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=20406

I think I had the right idea from your description and yeah it sounds like you were trying to go too far off in the beginning.

Think of your legs more like suspension, like motocross but just not as extreme. If you can get your hands on some TT races, you can clearly see those guys HAVE TO keep a good amount of their weight off the seat (vertically) in many parts of the course or they're toast! The surface is not smooth, hilly transitions where tires lose contact...etc.

 

[stkr]

opcorn:

This is going to be a long off-season, isn't it? :doh:

 

[redrdr]

I think I'm getting to the root cause of the problem. I'll focus on keeping my weight weight on my feet as opposed to just sitting on the bike. So, any pointers on this? Should I be think that I'm trying to imitate a jokey on a race horse?

 

[dlockhart5x]

stkr;217983 wrote: opcorn:

This is going to be a long off-season, isn't it? :doh:
:agree:

redrdr;217975 wrote: Any suggestions on the proper way to turn in?

Exactly 7.3 newton meters pressure on the grip. Any more and you will crash, any less and the bike will not turn.:banghead:

 

[redrdr]

stkr;217983 wrote: opcorn:

This is going to be a long off-season, isn't it? :doh:

I think so. I'm know I'm not that exciting or charismatic of a preson to get this much attention. Everyone else must be pretty bored.

 

[avizpls]

redrdr;217987 wrote: I think so. I'm know I'm not that exciting or charismatic of a preson to get this much attention. Everyone else must be pretty bored.

neither was blue



ooooooohhhhh hahaha

(u know im kiddin right? I defended you earlier)

 

[Gorecki]

redrdr;217985 wrote: I think I'm getting to the root cause of the problem. I'll focus on keeping my weight weight on my feet as opposed to just sitting on the bike. So, any pointers on this? Should I be think that I'm trying to imitate a jokey on a race horse?

I think this is helpful http://youtu.be/yxWBKmfKndI

Just remember when all is said and done (coming full circle) is even with the best PB and the best intensions, CRAP HAPPENS as well as crashes and sometimes there really isn't a way to explain it.

Search these forums too and draw some more of your own conclusions.