Am I fooling myself?

[Mike:p]

I have been trying to get my BP right my last few track days but it hasn't happened. I have been telling myself and the CRs that I can't get right because of my upright handlebars. I ride a FZ6. After reading about YCRS using FZ1s and reading about some of the CRs getting or wanting to get one, I began to think "is it just me?" I'm almost sure it is. I am a good "theoretical" rider meaning I understand what to do but I am very frustrated that when I look back at the pictures, I'm not doing it. Maybe I'm not as good as I think I am. I would love to go to YCRS or at least do several ATP with N2 but schedules never line up. So I guess what I'm asking is, does anyone have some suggestions to help me get this straightened out for the next time I'm at the track?

 

[FunFred]

If it makes ya feel any better, look at pics from the earlier superbike days...

 

[LarsDunaway]

Try to have a friend hold the bike upright for you, and sit on it/lean off. If you had a mirror to look at, that'd make it even better. Practicing it on a static bike will at least give you an idea for what it feels like to have proper body position. Heck, I'll hold your bike for you and help with body position if I'm at your next event.

 

[rhill]

What are you not happy with?

There is a big mental hurdle to get over when changing body position, especially when there isn't something you can directly feel. Best way IMHO is running a tail camera pointed at you ass, then trying different things.

For me, the biggest impact occurred when I tried turning my shoulders into the turn. Didn't immediately feel anything different, but watching the video after, it was immediately recognizable as an improvement.

Another one that helped get my head over; always trying to see the outside of the front fairing out of the corner of my eye when leaned over

You can work on body position on any bike....I was on a multistrada and hypermotard working on my body position to avoid dragging parts during a dealer trackday.

 

[tdelegram]

Mike,

This isn't one and done no matter who you are. I have been at it for several years and had some bp break throughs this past weekend. While the upright bars are not optimal I am sure you can get it better. Work with the CRs, listen to them and try to practice what they tell you. Just remember it all starts with a foundation which is your foot position. If you can't get the weight off your hands via foot, knee, hips, core and arms you'll never have good bp. While I would love my pics to look like the moto GP guys (they don't), I have to focus on making changes and practice them. Don't give up, if it was easy we wouldn't be in aww of the Doctor. If you see me at an event stop over and we can work on it between sessions. I might hit up Barber this year, other than that in think I am done with the paved track for the season.

Tom

 

[tdelegram]

PS tail camera is always run on my bike as Ryan stated its a great tool.

 

[adotjdot]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the post! First off, you are no fool ;-) Along with the great suggestions here already, keep in mind that BP is a fundamental that we are always working on at every level. Rossi had to change his approach to how he was using his body to stay competitive with Marquez. Bike choice will always require you to make adjustments to your BP but the fundamentals all apply and can all be used. In cases like the FZ1 and FZ6, we have much less lean angle to work with so the way we use our brakes and body become that much more important.

Developing good BP starts (a noted here already) with a good foundation...your feet. And builds from there. The key to BP as with many things we learn is there needs to be a process. I can't just tell you to go out and "hang off more". You will struggle because this is not giving you a process to work on. You need something to build on. First, get your feet right on the pegs. Next, prep the lower body for corner entry. Next, pop up and open your hip in the brake zone. Etc, etc.

You have the right mindset looking at something like ATP or YCRS. The key thing there is you can get a lot more focused attention on your specific riding. Sometimes we can't always address these issues on a more individual level at a track day event. So if you can get to one of these I highly suggest it. If not, as noted above, any of the CRs would be happy to work with you in the pits at your next event.

Also, feel free to PM me and we can discuss in more detail.

 

[ninjamansc]

I started on a 2005 Z1000. Very similar handlebar position to an FZ1 (or FZ6, same overall frame). I was repeatedly (to an extreme degree) to get off the bike. So when they tell you to "cartoon" your body, it's even more necessary on an FZ6. Like get your head outside and BELOW your handlebars. After I switched to a sportbike, it just made sense. Even though you FEEL like you're getting off, you're not. Hope this helps.

Which is all the more reason to get a dedicated track bike. (If, of course, your finances can handle it).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Lenny ZX9R]

Hey Mike! Watch the vid! I come in at 5:23 Bike # 32 I still have to get my bdoy down a little more but I'm workin on it!

 

[rhill]

^ that was such a fun session! The wheelie pass to close it out was great

 

[ninjamansc]

Yeah. Cuz he's on one of the most advanced sportbikes on the market.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[tdelegram]

^ that was such a fun session! The wheelie pass to close it out was great

I saw an orange cone on the front straight around the 6 minute mark, I think that was me.

Mike other thing I do is look at the pics from the track day photographer and compare and contrast to other riders at the same spot in the track. We are all generally running the same line so we should all start to have similar lean angles and BP. I also have a fast friend that borrows my bike and I compare my body to his and this weekend I was real close on bp, of course it's end of the season so now I am considering barber, damn this addiction. Point is, we all continue to work on it and we all struggle from time to time. A wise CR said to me when I was begrudgingly bumped to A, "don't stop learning, ask for feedback and help" then he asked "what are you making for dinnner and what kind of beer do you have, ok I'll be over around 6:15" he rides bike #32?

 

[D-Zum]

All good advise from everyone.

Another thing you need Mikey, is patience. Nothing about this is easy....it's fun...addicting, and learning to be more proficient is HARD. That's probably part of what attracts us all to this sport. Unless your Scott Russell, Anthony Gobert, or Emerson, this doesn't come naturally. Seat time (practice) over time will make you a better rider.

You can take YCRS, ATP's and work with CR's galore, but I feel YOU need to come up with a plan to advance you're riding. Nobody can help you when you're on the bike. Instructors/CR's are most effectively utilized in my opinion, when you have a plan. What don't you like about your riding? Why don't you like it? What are you going to do to correct it? What's the first step?

I think you're right in picking Body Position as the first step. Like Tom said, compare your pictures to those of other riders in A group. That's when things finally started to come together for me when I started making those comparisons in the Pics Of You kiosk at Road Atlanta about 10 years ago. I saw what the A riders where doing and what I was NOT doing. Then, I went out and tried to imitate what they were doing.

You never plan to fail..you only fail to plan.

 

[CBRtist]

I actually was laughing when I read this because I wonder if it's a case of "when two worlds collide", since you are an MSF instructor.

I felt the same frustration this year when I took the MSF rider coach course. I did great in the written and classroom teaching, but had an epic fail for range exercises. Tried as I could, I could not WILL my body to ride like a first time rider no matter how hard I tried (damn muscle memory). I was scolded for not having 4 fingers on the brake/clutch, leaning in a turn, and having my knee out... instead of pressed to the tank. Oh and couldn't apply back brake hahaha.

When I read your post, I really had the same feelings of frustrations. But... try, try, again haha so I'll probably submit myself to the same torture in '17. I know there are MSF instructors that can bridge the gap, some of us take more work!

I love BP. It's one of my favorite things about this sport! One of the things that initially helped me was strengthening and conditioning the muscles I needed to do this. I do "heismans" on the balls of my feet mostly and another exercise on a pole. Then I have the strength to get off the bike.

I also imagine myself as a jockey and never letting my butt touch the seat and smoothly pivoting from side to side. Getting your head out is probably the hardest. I was behind a CR once (Les) at Lightning and I remember his exaggerated movements... almost like he was pointing to the cone with the crown of his head. That was a big "aha" moment.

"Drop elbow and shoulder will follow" is another. And while a lot like their elbow on the outside of their knee, I feel more comfortable with my elbow on the inside of it. Try what works for you. Also, "screwdriver grip" on handlebars and relaxed grip is hugely helpful.

Other than practicing on a bike on stands, make sure that at the lunch riders meeting you are not shy and ASK if you can sit on the bike after the initial demo. They can position you so you can really get a sense of what it feels like so you can put it into practice.

So Mike.... try, try, again!

Hope to see you again sometime... maybe next season!

 

[borislav]

Thank you Wendy you beat me to it! Mike concentrate on DROPPING your elbow and shoulder!!! Sitting on the chair you try to do that, you will see/feel the difference how easier is to lean and to lean more than with elbow and shoulder up.
This little adjustment made huge difference for me.

 

[Otto Man]

Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was any proficient rider out there. Everyone, no matter your skill level, is always looking to improve. We may be at different progress levels, but we're all working on the same thing. And the thing to keep in mind is that it's simply not going to happen over night. It takes seat time, practice, and always having a plan every time you go out on track.

 

[wmhjr]

Mike, don't sweat it.

I have grown into the opinion that we all go through "stages". We progress slowly, then have"breakthrough" moments, followed by more slow progress, and then another breakthrough. Myself, at first thought I was really getting off the bike - until I saw the first photos and videos. Then I worked hard to improve body position but made only slight, incremental improvements. All of the sudden, a couple things "click" and there's a dramatic improvement - but wait! Then you're working on it more, but progress slows yet again. Kind of like "punctuated equilibrium". While I'm happy that my BP has really improved over the past couple years, I REALLY need to continue working on getting my darn head down (as well as many other things, as those who have ridden with me can attest to and often do). So, be patient. It does not happen overnight.

AJ is completely right. For most people if you try to focus in fixing "everything" all at once, it's too much sensory overload. Without great BP, it's hard to have confident control, so part of your focus is distracted because you're not comfortable with your entry speed, braking and lean angle, leaving less focus to deal with BP, and then you're trying to fix position on the pegs, weighting the inside peg, screwdriver grip, outside knee, opening inside knee, butt back and inside, body aligned with bike (not crossed up)....... Too much. Your brain (at speed) has the same "100 points of grip" as do your tires. Most people can find more success by focusing on just a couple foundational steps first, and then building on it. And maybe this will be controversial - but your technique is WAY more important than your pace when doing this. If you need to, back off the pace to build the foundation. Then you'll get that pace and much more back as you become more comfortable.

But at the end of the day, it's all repetition - and we all have different speeds and breakthroughs. Like with so many other things, recognizing that you need to work on it is the most important part. It gets you started and keeps you improving.

 

[tdelegram]

Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was any proficient rider out there. Everyone, no matter your skill level, is always looking to improve. We may be at different progress levels, but we're all working on the same thing. And the thing to keep in mind is that it's simply not going to happen over night. It takes seat time, practice, and always having a plan every time you go out on track.

My plan is for John not to pass me anymore, so far I have failed.

 

[Motofun352]

Your feet are your foundation and the first thing to work on getting right. If you're dragging a toe slider that should be an indicator of an issue (unless you are one of the Troys with titanium screws in your sliders). Everyone should have an analogy for what is right, mine is picture picking up a golf ball with your foot. That hollow spot and the pressure you would feel is what I look for from the end of the peg to assure my foot is properly aligned. Then I work on pointing the foot to the ground. If your heel of the boot isn't getting rub marks by the chain guard or some similar device...think again. This is one of those areas where I wish I wore size eights instead of twelves....

 

[tdelegram]

Your feet are your foundation and the first thing to work on getting right. If you're dragging a toe slider that should be an indicator of an issue (unless you are one of the Troys with titanium screws in your sliders). Everyone should have an analogy for what is right, mine is picture picking up a golf ball with your foot. That hollow spot and the pressure you would feel is what I look for from the end of the peg to assure my foot is properly aligned. Then I work on pointing the foot to the ground. If your heel of the boot isn't getting rub marks by the chain guard or some similar device...think again. This is one of those areas where I wish I wore size eights instead of twelves....

Jack, you know what they say about guys with big boots, they pull big trailers!