Are tire warmers worth it if you aren't that fast?

[afinepoint]

Talking to an "A" guy this weekend I received an education on tire warmers I hadn't thought about.

Warmers heat the tires to operating temperatures seen when the bike is at max speed - pro level/advanced whatever you want to call it. If you aren't riding at that level then the tires subsequently cool back down on the track. Thus they have one personality when first out of the pits then another later on.

Is it worthwhile to use warmers if not riding at that "higher" level? Is it dangerous in that the tires are first sticky then later on traction is reduced possibly without the rider being aware i.e. he's setting himself up?

I am no where near advanced but thougth it would have been nice to have had something this past Saturday when the temperature started below freezing and it took a few laps before the tires were ready and I felt comfortable really leaning. I wondered if warmers could be used for a short while to help keep the tires planted on chilly mornings.

Thoughts?

Reg

 

[alocker]

I think you answered your own question in the last sentence. If you can afford them, buy em.

 

[RADAR Magnet]

I tend to take my tire cues from Steve at RTS. My perception is that he thinks many trackday riders over think tire issues. I don't believe he sees warmers as critical for most of us but no harm either. If you want the comfort of knowing you're starting with warm tires on a cool day, or simply want to maximize your go fast time, and you have the money, then pick up a set. Otherwise, take it easy for a couple of laps until they come up to temp. That's my two cents anyway.

 

[HondaGalToo]

I started using them last year. I like going out with the tires up to temp. Don't be lulled into a false sense of security on a cold day, though. At any pace, the tires are going to cool back down on a cold day; something to be aware of. If it's cold, they are also cooling down while you're waiting on the grid.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

Finally! A question I am qualified to answer since I am slow!

Well, slow enough…as I am still in B Group (possibly close to I based upon CR feedback, but I’ll let them chime in on that since they are the experts).

Reg:

Pretty much what everyone else said especially Judy’s warnings about the cold days the tires cooling off some due to sit time on the grid or a cool day in general.

I run warmers for 2 reasons:

1. The TZ only has race slicks that fit it, so I use warmers to keep the heat cycles down and add longevity to the tire.
2. It’s nice to have the tires warm/ hot when you hit the track.

Really the next step for you should be to talk with a certified Dunlop, Bridgestone, Pirelli tire rep and express your concerns to them since race tires are a whole different animal. I run Bridgestones medium compound on the TZ and when I called the B-Stone rep that’s when I received my education. He did not ask how fast I was. The two questions he asked was:

1. What outside temperatures do you ride in (i.e. Spring, Summer or Fall)?
2. What track(s) do you normally ride?

When I said I wasn’t a real fast rider he said that if I carry any kind of pace that isn’t crawling along the Stones will heat up enough to grip: and they do grip too

BZ

 

[stow]

I believe Brubaker addressed this in one of the Dunlop threads. His comments were along the lines that any pace would put/keep heat in the tires and track surface temps played more of a role in whether the tire temps dropped significantly off the warmers.

 

[afinepoint]

stow;238079 wrote: I believe Brubaker addressed this in one of the Dunlop threads. His comments were along the lines that any pace would put/keep heat in the tires and track surface temps played more of a role in whether the tire temps dropped significantly off the warmers.

Yes, I read the "warmer and pressure info" thread and thought he was addressing tire pressure and how warmers related to setting that pressure. Was that the thread you are refering to?

Reg

 

[stow]

afinepoint;238092 wrote: Yes, I read the "warmer and pressure info" thread and thought he was addressing tire pressure and how warmers related to setting that pressure. Was that the thread you are refering to?

Reg

No, I think he had a thread that was addressing the question, "am I fast enough for DOTs". The premise of the question was the same, basically stating DOTs required an advanced pace to put/keep heat in the tires versus street tires. I believe Brubaker said the statement is completely false.

I will see if I can find it.

 

[stow]

Straight from Brubaker

It appears I might have taken his statements a little out of context. He is stating race tires are ok at slower paces as the demand for traction is lower so the tire doesn't require as much heat. So a slower rider not getting heat in the tires isn't a big issue. But he does mention the tires maintain heat even at a slower pace.

 

[some guy #2]

The only really great things about warmers is not having to do warm up laps. For a racer this is important (first corner going all out). For a casual TD rider it's not necessary since you can just do warm up laps. You can think of it as "wasted track time" though by warming up your tires for two laps every session (2-3 minutes for session) which adds up to almost a whole session over a day.

 

[noobinacan]

the biggest advantage warmers have...is that when you come off them and pavement temp is up. (nice sunny day)
its 80% GO time.

after lap 1, its 100% GO time.

 

[sheepofblue]

noobinacan;238097 wrote: the biggest advantage warmers have...is that when you come off them and pavement temp is up. (nice sunny day)
its 80% GO time.

after lap 1, its 100% GO time.

I run the same off warmers as I do after laps racing. I am not front of the pack but in general I worry more about being slowed down by control on cool days. Cold days the limiter is the track temp will drain heat (as will air temp).

Also if you are running race tires I would think cold tearing might be reduced with warmers though I never had that issue in Alabama

 

[Daddyjama]

some guy #2;238096 wrote: The only really great things about warmers is not having to do warm up laps. For a racer this is important (first corner going all out). For a casual TD rider it's not necessary since you can just do warm up laps. You can think of it as "wasted track time" though by warming up your tires for two laps every session (2-3 minutes for session) which adds up to almost a whole session over a day.

Yep.

For me it's peace of mind.. That can go a long way.

I say if it makes u more comfortable going out.. Go for it

 

[matt2212]

warmers also give you a much more consistent starting point for tire pressure

 

[dbarufaldi]

So far, I have preferred have a lap to 1.5 laps to warm up. I think it gives me a chance to go slower and pick where I want my lines and points to be, clear my head, etc. On a track I am very familiar with, I could see the benefit of the warmers, getting me up to speed more quickly.

The other benefit I see with tire warmers is starting on new tires. New tires are less sticky - not mold release issues, but because until they are scuffed, there is just less friction due to less dimensional surface area. They scuff quickly, but I dumped my bike on a cold day, cold tires, brand new tires, first turn...having done that, I'd prefer to have warmer available the next time I put on new sneakers.

Dan B

 

[madriders86]

noobinacan;238097 wrote: the biggest advantage warmers have...is that when you come off them and pavement temp is up. (nice sunny day)
its 80% GO time.

after lap 1, its 100% GO time.

This. I find I still need a lap or two to warm up my brain

The extra insurance of warm tires on the out lap is nice though.

 

[D-Zum]

matt2212;238131 wrote: warmers also give you a much more consistent starting point for tire pressure

+1 :agree:

 

[borislav]

Warmers are definetly good to have because all the reasons above and also warmers drasticaly reduce cold tire tearing which if present drasticaly reduce tire life, we all know that good tires cost big mony!On a cold day tires will come in of the track cooler than they went out of the warmers!

 

[bp@RiderSurance.com]

In addition for tires to work correctly, they have a suggested hot tire pressure. At each track ask your tire rep the recommended hot, pressure...

For illustration purposes say Dunlop's preferred hot pressure on your specific tires are 29F 27R.

Not using tire warmers:
It's 70 degrees that morning and you set your pressures cold at 25F 23R. After 5 laps you come into the pits and immediately check your current air pressure and tire surface temp with an infrared gun. Say your air pressure is now 30F 28R and your tire temp is 160f. Now you are 1lb higher per tire than what they recommend, so you let 1lb out. Now you are at 29F 27R as recommended. You go back out for a few more laps, comes back in and it should be very close. Now you know that when it's 70degrees outside at that specific track, given you are running the same lap times, your tire pressure is going to rise about 5lbs from cold at 70degrees. So you now have a good starting point of where to set your cold temperatures for that day. But as you get faster and the track gets hotter you need to keep monitoring your hot pressures because your cold temperatures will change as well.

Say the above scenario was practice the morning before a race. Now it's around noon and you decide to put new tires on for your race and now it's 85 degrees outside... Well you started the day at 25F 23R but it was a 1lb to high at hot pressure. Ok so now you are thinking I will start at 24F 22R. But wait it's 15 degrees hotter outside now...

So the purpose of tire warmers is not only the obvious- It's safer to go out on hot tires than cold. Reduce's cold tear. Reduces heat cycles. Don't waste gas, tires and everything for a few laps letting them warm up...

But now you have an idea that the tire hot surface temperature was about 160f. So if you have digital tire warmers you can mount the new tires, put the warmers on 160f, wait 45 minutes and then set your hot pressures at the recommended 29F 27R.

That is just the basics... In my racing days I personally kept a log of every track, outside temp, humidity, tire compound, hot temps after every session, hot pressures, cold pressures, rebound settings, compression, spring rates, etc... to give myself more set up notes. That allowed me to make more accurate decisions on pressures and settings so I could be as close to my preffered set up as possible at any given time on the track.

That's why the faster guys improve each time they go to the track. If you take good notes, you will have a better set up to start with, so your first session out you don't have to worry about anything except going faster and making more tiny changes throughout the day.

 

[rk97]

some guy #2;238096 wrote: The only really great things about warmers is not having to do warm up laps. For a racer this is important (first corner going all out). For a casual TD rider it's not necessary since you can just do warm up laps. You can think of it as "wasted track time" though by warming up your tires for two laps every session (2-3 minutes for session) which adds up to almost a whole session over a day.

I did two race weekends on Q2's with only the warmup lap to get heat in the tires and the only time I crashed was on lap 3; so it definitely wasn't a cold-tire crash...

I'm just now buying warmers for this season. I'm at the slower end of Advanced group, but it's totally possible to get to "A" without running warmers or race tires.