Can you be TOO courteous on the track?

JimmyW

N2
Mar 20, 2013
303
76
23
LOL !!!! OK Darrin just so you know I let Scott go bye so I could get some video of him. Psychoholic !!! Everything your feeling seems to be the same shit that I felt. That being said you need to hunt down two CR's that as far as I'm concerned taught me how to pass the right way . It's all about the set up and BO aka Borislav and Les ...... AAAHH Geeez don't know much more then Les can teach you how to set up the pass!! Look em up and you won't blink and you will be in I
 

Mikey75702

Member
Jun 21, 2009
1,776
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43
I agree with the others about getting a CR to help you with passing... If you can, find someone a session before hand in the pits and work it out with them to go out on track last. Have them lead you through for a lap or so and show you how they would pass in that group, (they will tow you through the traffic) then they will follow you for a bit to see if it has helped your comfort level. I had a big issue with passing people for a while in the B group, as when I dropped back to get a good run at someone for the straights, it seemed people would always pass me against the rules and give me another speedbump and my bike wasn't powerful enough to make up for my shortcomings as a rider passing people on the straights. Pontrelli was the one that started me on getting comfortable setting people up for passing, and Jiggy really drove it home. It didn't take long to notice how effortless they could make passing a bike (even one that had a massive HP advantage on them) and made me start planning the pass almost as soon as I could see the rider in front of me. You still want to be as courteous as possible, but it can get frustrating to be stuck behind slower riders, especially when they are on powerful bikes that scream down the straights and park it in the corners. If you make sure you get a good run down the straight, you can pass the bigger bike just as you stand the bike up, then make sure to keep them well behind you using the brakes going into the next corner. This will also have you working on braking deeper as well.
 

motorkas

Member
Jun 7, 2012
383
113
38
all great advice from those above (especially hooking up with a CR and viewing it as a "chess" game). I personally think you can never be too polite with passing (unless of course its an SV. . . :). . .

A couple of things helped me alot with passing in N group: First and foremost, was understanding why the passing rules were established the way they are - to force you to learn how to pass in "phases" - phase 1 is on the brakes, or timing the exit (N group); phase 2 is continue phase 1, and carrying more speed on entry and through the turn (outside passing - I group) and finally consistent, smooth braking, throttle, and race lines to do an inside pass. . .

When that finally clicked, I stopped thinking about passing and started working on braking later and later and getting on throttle earlier and earlier on exit (with INSANE AMOUNTS OF CR HELP). I actually did it not to pass people, but in an effort to get people to stop PASSING ME. . .:). Once I started pushing my brake markers, then I started looking for tell tail signs to help me "predict" what other riders in front of me were going to do and when. For passing on the brakes, the easiest is the rider "popping up" - if you know you're better on the brakes, you're just waiting to see that and then even if you hold throttle for half a second longer (because you're braking later) - you'll literally FLY by the rider your passing. Riders of liter bikes in particular brake way early (including myself). . .you're goal shouldn't to be to keep up on the straights, it should be to be on their ass coming out of the turn onto the straight, let them gap from the power, watch when then pop up, notice where it is in relation to your brake marker. . .smoke em on the next lap. . .:). The funny thing is, for my brother and I to get faster, we had to learn how to ride liter bikes like 600's - brake later, corner speed and on the gas early and hard. . .I can't tell you the amount of times I've been SMOKED by smaller bikes coming in to a corner, mid corner, exit of a corner (particularly a pesky 60hp SV650:D) and the distance that corner speed generates CANNOT be overcome by power unless it's a really long straight.

Once again, for me, what also helped alot was having a rear facing go-pro. This has been a benefit for two reasons: 1) it showed me that I wasn't cutting off peoples noses when I made passes (we can't look back) and 2) once you start getting comfortable with passes, it shows (in GRAPHIC detail) where and how people are PASSING YOU. . .:). Both are very valuable pieces of information to get faster. . . because it gives you confidence that what you thought was a questionable pass really was clean so the next time you're in that situation, you won't hesitate to make it, and it lets you know where others are making up time on you (and where you need to focus your attention for getting even more faster. . .;).
 

Slow Steve

I hate pushups.
Control Rider
Jul 24, 2008
912
259
58
55
Grasonville, MD
I changed my thought of passing and riding aggressive to "Pass with purpose". This made me plan out my riding on the track. There are bad, good, and great places to pass on every track and they are different to every rider to some extent. Find a corner or place that you are very comfortable on the track and and begin practicing a pass your that you can replicate on different riders, get proficient at it then add it to different places. The passes well begin to feel less aggressive and be courteous all the while the rider passed will say in their helmet "That was a nice pass"
 

Psychoholic

Member
Jun 6, 2012
230
4
13
Slow Steve - you wouldn't happen to have any video of your GSXR750 going around Road Atlanta would you?
 

JimmyW

N2
Mar 20, 2013
303
76
23
I changed my thought of passing and riding aggressive to "Pass with purpose". This made me plan out my riding on the track. There are bad, good, and great places to pass on every track and they are different to every rider to some extent. Find a corner or place that you are very comfortable on the track and and begin practicing a pass your that you can replicate on different riders, get proficient at it then add it to different places. The passes well begin to feel less aggressive and be courteous all the while the rider passed will say in their helmet "That was a nice pass"

Steve,
This is a great description !!
 

raylee

Member
Dec 6, 2011
76
67
13
The funny thing is, for my brother and I to get faster, we had to learn how to ride liter bikes like 600's - brake later, corner speed and on the gas early and hard. . .I can't tell you the amount of times I've been SMOKED by smaller bikes coming in to a corner, mid corner, exit of a corner (particularly a pesky 60hp SV650:D) and the distance that corner speed generates CANNOT be overcome by power unless it's a really long straight.

First world problems, Kas. :p
2cc542p.jpg
 

motorkas

Member
Jun 7, 2012
383
113
38
tried to type a reply for the last five minutes - still laughing so much typing this is difficult. . .God help us when Dave sees this. . .:D. . .time to update the sig. . .
 

Romans Eight

Control Rider
Director
Jun 30, 2014
245
109
38
54
Safety should always come first. My advice when stuck behind someone for more than two laps..and you're frustrated..pit in. Get some open track and ride your own ride, keep your head down, and work on your body position and corner speed. The passing will come easier as you get faster and build your confidence level.
 

drewhinkle

New Member
Jul 1, 2014
6
11
3
Suwanee, Georgia
Many, many great suggestions and comments. I will add my two cents from a real newbie's perspective.
I am one of the slower riders and as was pointed out, I slow down too early for the turns since I'm still learning the track and trying to get my sea legs. On the other hand, my bike is an 1198 so I can pretty much make it difficult for anyone to pass me on the straights if I wanted to. I am one of the slower riders, but not so slow that I don't know what it's like to get stuck behind someone slower. Therefore, I purposely do NOT ride fast in the straights for two reasons: 1) I have no need to go super fast since I am there to learn cornering, and 2) it allows the smaller bikes to pass me so they can work the corners at their speed. Since I can't see behind me, I can only hope that this approach worked for the more advance riders around me.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
Jul 11, 2008
6,575
915
78
NJ
Sounds like a sensible, courteous plan to me, kudos! You didn't say specifically, so I'll just add that even though you aren't at full speed on the straight, stay on the race line, don't pull off to let others go by, as they are expecting you to be on-line and can plan accordingly. You probably were doing this; just clarifying for the readers! Sounds like you had an awesome weekend and learned a lot. Nice job, and welcome again!
 
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steftoff

New Member
May 12, 2014
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I have the cautious approach to passi g also. Being I the I group I try to learn other riders lines and make my passes as clean as possible.
Some of my most memorable sessions have been when I was dicing with liter bikes that would pull me in the straights and I would out brake them into the corners and hold them off for 3/4 of the lap.
All the advice post here is great. As was mentioned early on in this post "This is NOT a race" we are out here to learn and have fun. I sure as hell don't want to take someone out with a risky move and I don't want to be taken out. Unless it is for beer after we are off the track.
I can't wait to get out on the track with you guys and gals again.
 

raylee

Member
Dec 6, 2011
76
67
13
Many, many great suggestions and comments. I will add my two cents from a real newbie's perspective.
I am one of the slower riders and as was pointed out, I slow down too early for the turns since I'm still learning the track and trying to get my sea legs. On the other hand, my bike is an 1198 so I can pretty much make it difficult for anyone to pass me on the straights if I wanted to. I am one of the slower riders, but not so slow that I don't know what it's like to get stuck behind someone slower. Therefore, I purposely do NOT ride fast in the straights for two reasons: 1) I have no need to go super fast since I am there to learn cornering, and 2) it allows the smaller bikes to pass me so they can work the corners at their speed. Since I can't see behind me, I can only hope that this approach worked for the more advance riders around me.

I rode like this when I first started with my S1000RR. I was in the same boat where I wasn't terribly quick, but my bike had enough power to blast down the straight so I could park it into turn 1. It's hard to gauge what's a good speed for the straights so what I did was get in line behind a relatively quick 600 and match their pace and kept my bike at that speed down the straight so if someone on a 600 was behind me, it was up to them to get the better drive and get past me. Keeping your speed down a bit through the straight also helps to train yourself to brake deeper into the turn as you're not as overwhelmed by heavy braking.
 
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Psychoholic

Member
Jun 6, 2012
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Therefore, I purposely do NOT ride fast in the straights for two reasons: 1) I have no need to go super fast since I am there to learn cornering, and 2) it allows the smaller bikes to pass me so they can work the corners at their speed. Since I can't see behind me, I can only hope that this approach worked for the more advance riders around me.

I was working on my turns on Saturday more than anything, so I wasn't blasting down the straights to let everyone go around me and not to hold others up while doing so. I think it really worked out well (other than slightly changing my entry points with the amount of speed carried into 10A and 6) and I was able to shave off between 10 - 15 seconds a lap when I was starting to hammer on it.