Can you explain the physics of...?

[Daddyjama]

Maybe my personal story could help..

I had my front forks revalved with racetech and stiffer springs installed. I didn't touch my rear either.. I too loved the corner entry and harder braking..

My bike not only went wide in th corner but there was a slight squat when I would start to ease on th gas.. Or at least it felt like it.. The only reason I know the difference is because I had my sag in the rear lowered a bunch. My rear spring is too soft and sag was too high.. Cranking the preload down helped and I felt planted more on corner exit .. But in my case it comes down to needing a stiffer spring...

My throttle hand loved it after

 

[maxpr1]

I had Thermos man set me up with a TTX shock over the winter. I did not mention it as I didn't realize the rear set up was the issue.

 

[Dave561]

Again that should have been in post#1. Best advise I can give you is go to NJMP, find Mark from Markbilt and tell him your issue and let him set you up. No amount of $$ you throw at suspension, tires or Rims will be as valuable as a proper tuner setting your bike.up for you. Mark is a genius with suspensions and really knows the R6.

 

[slowpoke]

slow_honda;201812 wrote: Again that should have been in post#1. Best advise I can give you is go to NJMP, find Mark from Markbilt and tell him your issue and let him set you up. No amount of $$ you throw at suspension, tires or Rims will be as valuable as a proper tuner setting your bike.up for you. Mark is a genius with suspensions and really knows the R6.

:agree:

and sag is not your issue. it's ride height that will solve your issue as Dave has said.

also be aware that if your bike is turning in more easily, you will have to be conscience of not turning in too early.

either way, Mark can get you straight in a matter of minutes.

 

[madriders86]

Could it also be possible that due to the newfound ease of flicking the bike in, he is apexing earlier than before, thus causing him to run wider coming out of the corner?

 

[maxpr1]

Good advice, unfortunately Mark was not at the last event I attended. I will however search him out on my next event and get all of this straightened out. Chris thanks for the link, and Dave, I hear ya! But to my defense I had the mechanic from California super bike school look over my set suspension, but that was before all of the changes I recently made.

 

[Matt]

i like the point of apexing early now that the bike flicks in easier.

also, if your tire size changed, your rear ride height is different. you need to see how it changed.


flatter or lower rear end means pushing wider on exit.



the end. sag is fine, damping should still be fine. part rider, part geometry.

 

[NickMcCoy]

madriders86;201818 wrote: Could it also be possible that due to the newfound ease of flicking the bike in, he is apexing earlier than before, thus causing him to run wider coming out of the corner?

I was thinking either this, or maybe because it's easier to toss into the turn you're carrying a little more corner speed from entry to apex and it's throwing your trajectory off. I could be wrong but I've never heard of lighter wheels causing this kind problem, but I have heard that you have to adjust your riding and suspension after you switch. I wish I had the $ to have had experience with them.

 

[gkotlin]

And you changed sprockets. That can change the swing arm angle. It could have gone from an anti-squat situation before, to a squatting situation. It might be that there is more traction at the rear, so the front is over powered and just pushing. Which would make sense if the bike is squatting an acceleration and transferring to much weight to the rear, or more importantly off the front. More ride height in the rear might help. More compression damping in the rear might help. A little less rebound damping up front might help. To much ride height / swing arm angle will cause spin of the rear tire rather then squat. You might need more rear springs too. So there is a lot that needs to be looked at here to tune it for what you want.

A lot times you tune from the opposite end of the bike first for some things. So running wide on exit is a rear end problem, not a front end problem. But maybe not. You need to do lots of homework or get with a good suspension tuner to figure out whats up. You also need to get with a CR. If you have great traction and hammer the gas rather then rolling it on, you might blow through the stroke of the shock and be causing the issues yourself. It could be that you're turning in early and just not pointed in the right direction, even though you get to the apex, the bike is not pointed the right direction.

It's a balance between setup, riding style, components and tuning. If it were easy, everyone's bike would handle like a dream!

 

[jaren warren]

madriders86;201818 wrote: Could it also be possible that due to the newfound ease of flicking the bike in, he is apexing earlier than before, thus causing him to run wider coming out of the corner?

bingo. Read Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II. There's a whole chapter on this. ( just read it on the crapper this morning :dunno: )

 

[gkotlin]

madriders86;201818 wrote: Could it also be possible that due to the newfound ease of flicking the bike in, he is apexing earlier than before, thus causing him to run wider coming out of the corner?

An early apex does not cause the bike to run wide. It means you missed your apex or didn't get to the right apex, or were pointed in the wrong direction at the apex. If you can't see that you on the line to get to your exit point, then your not on the apex at the right place, OR you need to WAIT to get on the gas. If both things are true, and you get on the gas and the bike does not get to the exit point, it is running wide.

If the bike turns better and you turn in and thus when your at your apex, your pointed the wrong direction, you need to fix the line / apex, not the bike.

This is why you need to work with a CR. So they can see what the true problem is.

 

[Stephen81]

I think your problem is simple with the less unsprung weight you are flicking the bike in faster. So if you keep the exact turn in point and flick in quicker you will apex earlier and then have the tendency to run wide. I think the solution is to move your turn in point a few feet ahead and then you will hit the apex the way you need to for the smooth completion of the turn. It's not the bike it's just like going from a cruiser to a supersport.

 

[barry38]

I call bullshit on most of this. Diagnosing an issue like this is like try to diagnose health issues on the internet. Doesn't work well.

Lighter wheels will affect unsprung weight and can affect turn in. I believe the geometry issues are so small it's not an issue here, a couple millimeters on ride height at the rear at most. Rossi may notice this, but a "B" guy, not likely. This is a "B" rider here and at "B" level speeds he is really not exploring the outer edges of the handling envelope. Realistically a couple clicks of compression at the rear, and a couple clicks of rebound at the front (assuming baseline has been properly set) and making sure the guy is online should help.

Don't make a damn mountain out of a mole hill for crying out loud.

 

[clandestiny]

Thanks Beta, that is so going into my track-notes folder.