Chronicles of a Noob - My journey from Beginner to Advanced Rider

[Trent1098S]

PS The field sizes in both classes last year were too small at BHF for any contingency payout to be awarded, so I'm not counting on making any contingency. Only thing I can potentially win is a little plaque.

I could sign up for Sharkskin since I'm running those on my Ducati, they don't have a minimum field requirement. They pay 100/75/50 for HWSB, but nothing for Supertwins. I don't think it'll be worth it since I doubt that I'll have times fast enough to podium in any SB class.

 

[greeny]

don't choose your race tires based on contingency payouts. use what you like, and whatever money you collect for your good finishes is just a bonus. the pirellis and dunlops are polar opposites and you'll have to be making lots of suspension and geometry changes for each respective tire. your bike will never be tuned in exactly like you want and I don't think the nesba boards have enough bandwidth to handle something like that.

if you're interested in racing the pirellis, you have plenty of time to try them out and see if you might prefer them over the dunlops. something to consider is that i believe their slick and DOT is basiclly the same tire. but when you make a choice, stick with it so you can start getting your bikes exactly where you want them. there's enough to worry about when you're setting up your bike with the same tires over and over... to throw another brand in the mix would simply be rubber overload.

anyway, i think concentrating on racing only one of your bikes or the other is a great idea - even beyond the whole $$ thing.

 

[Trent1098S]

I love the Dunlop NTEC 211GP rear I have on the 1098S right now. I can't get the damn thing to break loose when it's warmed up, and I've been making a serious effort to try! When I crank on it hard driving out of corners, it just lifts the front up and tracks out I'm still leaned over without stepping out at all. It's also wearing a LOT better on my 1098 than anything else I've ever run.

The 209GPA front I'm running on it has slid around on me pretty good at Autobahn, Barber, and Road Atlanta. I'm not liking it. On the plus side it still feels exactly the same on the track now as it did the day I put it on.. 10 trackdays ago? So it has really good life, just not enough grip. The 209GPA didn't last very long, but it had good grip up to the end. Then it dropped of unexpectedly with a lot of drama.

Thinking on this more, Pirelli is more expensive and they didn't last long on my 1098 - I know it's a setup issue, but one that I really don't feel like chasing down since they're more expensive anyway.

My lap times are pretty much identical betweeen the two bikes, it's me that's slowing up the show, not the bikes. So I'll probably start out racing the 1098S and run the GSXR-1000 at track days for awhile. If I find out I like racing enough, I can always worry about adding it in later in the unlimited classes.

That'll let me have down time on each bike to do work & maintenance at my (slow, pathetically lazy) pace without fighting to keep two bikes always up and running all season long.

Contingency isn't an issue, since the fields probably won't be big enough to matter anyway.

I'll run Dunlops 211's to keep the same "stack" of tires between the two bikes. Run them fresh on the 1098 to race, and then run them as take offs on the gixxer at track days. They last forever so the cost will pretty much wash out, compared to the 209's.

Thanks for the advice Jordan, you've helped me actually make a decision for a change!

Is it spring yet?

 

[Sklossmonster]

I'm pretty sure that it's impossible to make any money doing amateur racing, so people should be somewhat relaxed and having fun, right?

Hey Trent,

I feel compelled to warn you, especially since I like you, there are plenty of amateur racers who are racing as if they don't have 5 kids and a wife to come home in one piece for.

The grids are nice and light these days, which makes it a little safer, but the game hasn't changed. If you aren't willing to go home in a box, don't go racing.

I'm not trying to scare you, just being honest.

If I were you I'd wait until I was comfortable in the Advanced group, which is described in the Nesba manual as "much like an open race practice" before I went racing.

And I personally don't recommend any family man go racing at all for fun. Not saying you can't do it, just that I wouldn't. Know what you're getting into and the elevated risks therein.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

[gkotlin]

Sklossmonster;115367 wrote: Hey Trent,

I feel compelled to warn you, especially since I like you, there are plenty of amateur racers who are racing as if they don't have 5 kids and wife to come home in one piece for.

This guy I've heard knows a thing or two. Seems he used to race or something. USED to be fast I hear

But seriously. If Mr. Skloss or Mr. Heath Locum tell me to do something on the track, I DO IT. Regardless if I think I will die or not. They are, who I want to be, when I grow up. They have never given me a bad piece of advice.

 

[jami]

Since this has turned into a "family man" discussion, I will now chime in. When I met Trent almost 18 yrs ago, he has always been competative about everything. He thrives on it! Now, I agree, he would do better with experience in advanced group, but he won't do anything he is not comfortable doing. I believe he should do any hobby he wants as long as it is legal. I will not stop him from racing if it makes him happy. We all know the risks, have talked about them, and accept them.

 

[TripleThreat]

Sklossmonster;115367 wrote:
If I were you I'd wait until I was comfortable in the Advanced group, which is described in the Nesba manual as "much like an open race practice" before I went racing.

And I personally don't recommend any family man go racing at all for fun. Not saying you can't do it, just that I wouldn't. Know what you're getting into and the elevated risks therein.

This very advice, given to me by Marshall and Dustin have kept me from gridding up, even though I'm very comfortable in the "A" group. Two little girls and a wife who depend on me on a daily basis are plenty of reason to wait.

Once they are out of college and my wife is sick of putting up with me anyway, I'll grid up in the really old fart's class...

Jeff

 

[Andrei]

Sklossmonster;115367 wrote: Hey Trent,

I feel compelled to warn you, especially since I like you, there are plenty of amateur racers who are racing as if they don't have 5 kids and a wife to come home in one piece for.

Now you've added to the hype ... what's the big deal ?? racin' , not racin' . go for it ! Parents are putting their 5 year olds on the grid. That's nerve wrecking ... we are adults here. Though it's true , things can get out of control pretty quickly. The only way to fix that is to be head and shoulders faster than anyone else problem solved.

Picture Marshall few years ago ... however , now that he is in expert ranks I think it would be fair to note that AM racing became indeed much safer

 

[Indy1098]

Interesting topic and certainly one that is relevant to me as I will be racing for the first time this season primarily in the heavyweight twins class. I believe this is the class that Trent is also going to be racing in.

I have talked to quite a few current/former HW twins racers and the consensus seems to be that grids are smaller and the attitude is not quite as cuthroat as in the 600cc class. This has somewhat influenced my decision of what class to race. While there is no doubt in my mind that I will be racing to win every time, like Trent I am doing this just for the fun and to challenge myself to become a better rider.

By the way, my wife has the exact same attitude as Trent's wife about racing. It is nice to have her support.

 

[Trent1098S]

Supertwins last year = 6 to 7 guys on the track at once with 6-8 second gaps in lap times. Sounds like a lot of clear track practice to me.

I'll have a chance to observe & watch the Unlimited classes for awhile and get some practice in the less populated grids, before I decide if I'm going to jump in deeper.

I know there's risk. There's a risk doing track days. There's arguably a hell of a lot more risk riding on the street. There's risk just driving to work every day in my truck, maybe even more so, because of complacency and idiots with bad driving habits.

A few years ago on I74 a guy was driving along minding his own business. A pickup truck was travelling the other way on the interstate, and the guy was carrying a load of material with a tarp over it, weighted down with cement bricks. The wind caught the tarp, flipped a brick up and over the dividing ditch nearly 100 feet, through a guy's windshield, and through the dude's head.

Another local woman was killed more recently by a random 400 lb block of concrete falling off of an interstate overpass that was being repaired. It just happened to vibrate loose from work being performed on the other side, and went through her windshield.

Shit happens, and you never know when your ticket is going to get punched. I don't see risk - at least not controllable risk - as a deterrent to enjoying life. We're not playing russian roulette. We take a lot of time to prep our gear, our bikes, and ourselves, and to practice good habits so we react properly when we need to. I know enough not to get myself in over my head, and I know enough to watch the guy in front of me to recognize if HE is getting over his head. I carry a consistent line, to minimize the chance of getting packed from behind.

Even if I lived the safest possible life and never left the house, someday I'm going to die. Could be from a lightning strike, a flu virus, or a heart attack. Who knows?

All I know is that if I went through life afraid that everything out there might hurt me, I wouldn't really be living at all.

Anyway that's enough philosophy and depressing thoughts for one weekend. I appreciate your concern, really, I do, and I share it. I know going in to this season that there's a possibility that someone I know may end up getting hurt.. may be me, may be you. It sucks that there's a cross to bear as a byproduct of this hobby, but we all do this for our own reasons, and we all know what risks we take when we put on gear and hit a hot track.

 

[Wink]

 

[diamond]

Disclaimer... I haven't read this whole thread.

I raced last season. I signed up for my first race to do something special for myself on my birthday. The next track day when I went through NESBA tech... I got my B group sticker to the "congratulations on your first race" from the tech CRs. (I did, however, get bumped to I that day... thanks Wink!)

I had a great time racing last season, and plan to race again this season. My goal is not to be in the A group, or to win a race, or to get contingency $. (though I would LOVE to achieve any of these) My goal is to become a better rider, find someone out there to compete with, and try to improve every time I throw a leg over my bike.

 

[Andrei]

Wink;115406 wrote:
Second, anyone that can get a race license can grid up. No predictability, brains or skill required. Grid up in the NESBA "I" Group, predictability is fairly predictable. Grid up in the NESBA "A" Group, predictability is required. Some of the worst riders we ever have at track days are "Racers".
..

true , but mid season EVERYONE(well almost) in middlewight were running 18s or better at BHF . so I don't agree that race grid is less quialified than nesba A. In the past , it may have been different. Truth to be told half of the midleweight grid is nesba A riders anyways ....

 

[diamond]

Andrei;115429 wrote: true , but mid season EVERYONE(well almost) in middlewight were running 18s or better at BHF . so I don't agree that race grid is less quialified than nesba A. In the past , it may have been different. Truth to be told half of the midleweight grid is nesba A riders anyways ....

Predictability to me is a whole lot different than low lap times.

 

[jigs]

Aaahhh...racing.First it gets real,then it gets different.....then it gets REAL DIFFERENT.There also is nothing like it.You definatley see and feel the difference from the get-go and yes it can be addictive even more so than track days which I love.Tons of good advice made available to right here,from people that have lived it all,listen to them as I have intently and still do.

Racing is more intense,dangerous and really really expensive.I am single no kids,which makes it in my mind at least alot easier to justify.Now track days I still enjoy a hell of alot,it's just different now.Franklt though I didn't go racing until I felt at least I put enough seat time in and studied as much as possible and committed to a slow learning curve with ssafety as my motive.Cuz you know what...I want to ride next week,and next month.There is nothing like expierience though in this sport,and the coaching we recieve.I wanted to be comfortable in NESBA "A" group for as long as possible before I griddied up.Now I am really happy that I committed to that program because you can get cought up REAL quick in racing and get over your head REAL fast...I have to agree with old pro's here,that have been there,done that,got the T-shirt and the hat and all,get some time in the "A" group,work on your skill sets,get your times down safely,build you skills.I tell ya what,runnin' mid teen and down it a rece is alot different then the "I" group at 20's 21's,there is some good riding in"I" but it aint' racin'...nothing close.

Now the "A" group has a shit load of expierience,skill,speed stamina...you name it.It also really does have the feel of an open race practice with NESBA.But guess what...even that aint' racin'.I used to think,when I was considereing gridding up for the first time,well,how much different can it really be than running NESBA "A" group...I mean really.Guess what....it is.....Now everyone is different I know this...but speaking for myself and in totall agreement with Marshall and Wink,I would never trade the slow moving up process,I truly believe.knock on wood,my years doing "A" group prepped me to handle racing,there's no substitue for it.But if you decide to grid up,just post-register,and ALWAYS remember not to get cought up and ride over your head.Know the signs of fatigue and rideing over you head.To me the first sign I'm riding over my head is real simple...I AINT" HAVIN" FUN.Rushing the corner entry,etc,etc.Just don't ride 10/10th even if you're a 10/1-ths guy.You study alot and I believe could do well,I just get a little nervous about the lack of TRUE high speed close quarters didcin.I am here for you as we all are....looking forward to a new season...good luck.

 

[nickmick]

Trent1098S;115403 wrote:
A few years ago on I74 a guy was driving along minding his own business. A pickup truck was travelling the other way on the interstate, and the guy was carrying a load of material with a tarp over it, weighted down with cement bricks. The wind caught the tarp, flipped a brick up and over the dividing ditch nearly 100 feet, through a guy's windshield, and through the dude's head.

Another local woman was killed more recently by a random 400 lb block of concrete falling off of an interstate overpass that was being repaired. It just happened to vibrate loose from work being performed on the other side, and went through her windshield.

i'm certainly not gonna tell you what to do or even give my advice (unless asked), but this logic is flawed. none of those incidents happened on a racetrack.

odds of me getting killed from a 400lb block of concrete - 1/99999999
odds of me getting killed on the racetrack - 1/100 (made it up)

so, my odds of dying while racing are (1/99999999) + (1/100).
my odds of dying while not racing are (1/99999999).

odds of dying while playing russian roulette are 1/6. doesn't mean i'm more likely to die if i don't play russian roulette. yeah, you could die tomorrow. but it's not very likely. unless you're racing tomorrow. (edit: i meant to put a smiley here, lol. it was kind of a joke.)

fwiw, i have two little girls, and I would like to grid up eventually. Personally I'm gonna wait until I'm solidly in A first. I just got to I.

 

[jami]

Now, we have moved on to dying. I agree with Trent that people die when their time is up no matter what they are doing. My aunt died while she was sleeping and my grandma died in the kitchen while making a sandwich for my grandpa! When it is time, it is time, no matter what you are doing. I will back Trent about racing no matter if he decides to do it this year, ten years from now, or never. We can't live life being afraid of the 'what ifs'. I appreciate all the posts from both sides of the argument, it has made me think about things I hadn't before. Thank you!

 

[beac83]

This has become quite the hot topic.

Trent, I wish you well in this endeavor. I know you have paid attention to the details enough to understand what you are getting into. It's also true that you never know how it *really* is until you do it. I also know that no one except you will make the decision to race this year or not.

That said, there are a lot of folks here in NESBA who wish you well and are freely offering the benefits of their experience. While it's pretty obvious from these posts that many would not choose the path you are placing yourself on or perhaps more accurately merely the timing of that trip, we all know the decision is yours. We all wish you well. I hope that you take the information offered in the manner it was given - friendly advice from friends/family at NESBA.

Have Fun. I'll see you at Putnam.

 

[tankslapper]

Last year at the age of 46 I got my CRA race license, raced three race weekends in HW on my GSX-R 750, and particpated in the 5-hour endurance race. CRA races at BIR, which is an interesting track in that it has two configurations, the short course and the long course. Much has been written about the long course, especially with respect to turn one, the fastest turn on a road course that can be taken with the throttle pinned if you dare. As mentioned, racing is different than track days, and the biggest difference is that racers in the heat of battle will do the type of things that will get you black flagged at a NESBA track day. I chose the HW class because grids tend to be smaller and made up of more experienced riders and the 600s that race it tend to be the better racers, so you tend to have less unpredictable stuff happening. Yes, you certainly can grid last and not worry about position or placing, but that won't last too long, as you will try to pass anyone that is in front of you. Certainly racing has more get-offs than track days, but I have seen my share of bad stuff happening on track days as well. I do believe you can try out racing without too much extra risk beyond what you have experienced over all those track days you have done. If you have 100s laps experience in NESBA-I you will do fine. I still have some racing goals left in terms of lap times and guys I would like to beat. However, it is expensive, and at some point I will have to remind myself why I race and whether it is time to do something else. As far as bike to race, personnaly I think trying to race a 1098 or GSX-R 1000 would be a challenge as a first time novice racer, but I could be wrong.

 

[Trent1098S]

Someone on this board posted up a rather sobering article about racing either late last year, or early this year. It covered a lot of the negative aspects that are glossed over or ignored a lot, ranging from addictiveness, to costs, to impact on family, etc. It was an interesting read and the first time I'd given serious thought beyond the "that'd be fun" factor.

There's also that "thing" buried inside of me that's been around since I was 21 and bought my first new car, a brand new '98 Z-28... which was reposessed a few years later because I lost my license and couldn't keep insurance on it. I found out that I don't like to lose, and from the first time someone revved an engine next to me at a stop light, I also found that I also can't say "no" very easily.

Later I found out what a ticket at 120mph in a 55 zone costs.

Recently (as within the last week) riding on the street, I found that after all these years I still have that same problem. A guy wearing an icon jacket sitting on a gixxer pulled up next to me at a stop light while I was on my ZX-14. I'm sitting there in my full gear, and the guy starts romping on the throttle. I won't post details of what happened next because this is a public forum.

The thing is, the hypocrosy of it all hit me pretty hard on the remainder of my ride home. I talk about safety, I wear full gear, I train and practice every track day event I can realistically sign up for.. and yet I'm still prone to making dumb mistakes.

Anyway, two things need to happen here.

A) I need an outlet for this that's LESS hazardous than on the street. I don't care how much gear you wear, a high speed off on a public road is extremely likely to leave you seriously f*cked up. Meanwhile I've personally seen plenty of high speed get-offs at the track, and sure there's the occasional broken bone and spectacularly destroyed motorcycles, but overall it's much safer and more controlled.

B) I need a slower street bike, or none at all, so I'm not tempted to do stupid things on the ride to work & back. Having a street bike that'll do 90mph in first gear or tht's capable of kissing 200mph (given enough room), ridden by a rider that really enjoys going fast, is not exactly the best, or safest, combination.

Racing isn't new to my family, although motorcycle racing is. My grandpa on my fathers side, Willie Lawrence, has built drag race cars & motors for most of his life, my cousin J.B Fields took Jr. dragster nationals one year, and my uncle on the other side of the family raced top fuel with Midyette racing out of Chesapeake VA. Family support is not a real problem, it's 'in the blood' as it were, although it's always manifested in drag race form... guess I'm the oddball out.

I will share with you guys a couple of thoughts now, and hopefully the issue will be put to rest and Chronicles can continue on it's merry way full of 2010 track days with NESBA.

When I started riding in 2007, I also started watching WSBK, MotoGP, and AMA racing on TV. More accurately, I became quite addicted to watching racing. I'd NEVER - in my entire life - been interested in any sport. I don't watch football, basketball, baseball, nothing. Never followed it or had any interest in it. From the day I watched my first race, I was hooked instantly. When I got my 1098 later that year, the only thing I could think about was getting on a track somewhere.

I called Autobahn Country Club in late '07 to ask about renting the track for a day and the guy I spoke with turned me on to NESBA & track day organizations. Although I could pay for and rent a private day, after I found out about track day organizations, it made a hell of a lot more sense to spend that money on a LOT of track days.

Yes, this is a classic example of putting the cart before the horse. But those who know me in real life (outside of track) know that as a rule I tend to have big ideas, often well outside of my reach.. but I consistently work to reign at least some of those ideas in, and make them reachable. I think too big sometimes, but when I make a decision to do something, I'm also determined enough to put my nose down and relentlessly work towards a long term goal.

Before I ever turned a wheel on the track the only thing I wanted to do was race - it looked like so much fun! But.. when I joined NESBA and did my first day at Blackhawk Farms, I was in for a shock of a lifetime. What I'd considered "fast" (speed wise) was not really fast at all... and after watching A group that day it dawned on me what incredible skill the racers have, and what a huge gap I'd have to cross if I ever hoped to grid up and turn a wheel in a race.

I'm already registered early for Learning Curves at Blackhawk in May. I'm going to race that weekend. It's entirely possible I may do one weekend and decide to back off, do another 20-30 track days, and wait until 2011 if I don't feel my skill set is up to the task. I don't like to lose, and if I don't think I have a chance at consistent good finishes, I'll go practice more and come back to win later.

The last time I rode at Blackhawk was my first weekend in I group, and I was turning 1:21 flat. I feel that during the 15 track days I've done since that weekend that my skills and speed have improved enough to finally give it a shot (and to do so SAFELY). I may decide to wait longer to make a go at it seriously, after I get a taste of it in May. Or I may decide that the risk vs. reward isn't there.

I can't make a decision on that until I've experienced it first hand.

The bottom line is.. this is something I've wanted to do from "Day 1." If I did not at least try this, experience it myself, and finally chase this little dream I have down to see if it fits .. I know I'd regret it for a long time.

Thanks for all the feedback!