cold temp tire strategy?

[Landshark]

bodell;220331 wrote: I have done it with both.

I didn't figure you as one who you went both ways.

 

[bodell]

Landshark;220341 wrote: I didn't figure you as one who you went both ways.

Oh, you cheeky little bitch...
Don't make me remind everyone about your and Mike's and perfect mix of passion and pageantry!

(Always a classic)

 

[sobottka]

bodell;220331 wrote: I have done it with both.

hmmm, lowering the pressures on dunlops in cold weather increases cold tearing. i realize this is counter intuitive, its what we did when i ran michelins but does not work on dunlops (yes i've tried it) and is not recommended by rts.

 

[Andrei]

sobottka;220295 wrote: if anyrthing and cover them with towels to retain more heat. .

just be careful not to overinsulate the thermostat area where the warmer velcro overlaps. There is too much insulation in that place already and covering it with an extra blanket can burn a hole or ruin the warmer entirely.

 

[snikwad]

the problem with using warmers with a cold track, is people tend to forget the track is cold and is gonna take out some heat and they go balls out and end up on their ass. You have to go by feel, regardless of warmers of not.

 

[jimgl3]

or you can do like i did and bust your arse a few times and that will learn you!

 

[noobinacan]

JRA;220321 wrote: Cold track is the is the key part of this that isn't being mentioned. If it's 45 degrees out, bright sunshine, and no wind you are going to have a whole lot better grip that you would have if it's overcast and breezy. It doesn't matter how hot your tires are, the track and the tires together determine your level of grip. The way to know how much grip you have is by the feedback the tires are giving you.

I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned the term "feel". Regardless of the conditions you only push the tires as far as they will let you go. One really solid reason for picking a tire and sticking with it is so you can more easily learn what the tires are telling you. If you go out and do three laps to heat the tires and call it good to start going fast, you're likely going to end up on your head. You pick up the pace as your grip increases with the heating of the tires, and the limiting factors are the tires you are running and the condition of the track. You don't base this on how many laps you've done, you base it on what you are feeling as you are riding.

With a cold track the grip is only going to be a certain amount. The feedback you are getting from the tires will tell you how much this is. Really good riders can maximize this and thus go faster. The morning sessions at a track are going to have less grip when it's cool or cold; this should improve as the track warms through the day (assuming that it gets warmer, the sun comes out, etc.) In the summer the first three or four sessions will probably offer better grip, and the later afternoon sessions at a track will have less grip if it's scorching hot.

One thing that might seem counter intuitive is that in colder temps you don't want to use the softer compounds due to cold tearing. Pick a more durable tire, heat them really well on your warmers, and very gradually pick up the pace as the the tires come in.

In response to one of the earlier posts I'd always rather be on a race tire regardless of temperature.
JRA;220322 wrote: Aman,

See my post above. Ambient temp isn't the only factor. You can't say just because it's above fifty I'm ready to roll. You could have the exact same temp two days in a row and have very different levels of grip available. I will say that Barber seems to have less grip early in the morning every month of the year.

One other thing to mention here is riding technique. Fast guys use technique to maximize traction. All other things being equal, a guy who has better technique will have more grip, and as a result be able to go faster than somebody less skilled.

Regarding race tires you can do :44's on either of them or neither of them, depending on other factors. You just take what the track, your tires, and you ability will give you and no more. Generally though, race tires are always going to have better grip in the temps we ride in.

Thanks for that post John, that's a lot of good info.
It helps me a lot. In my mind, at least I now have a basic approach to colder weather riding.
It has also put a lot of questions and doubts to rest for me.

 

[tomseviltwin]

One thing I've learned to look for is moisture in the morning. If the pits are covered in dew the track is too. This applicable to warm and cold weather but compounds things when its cold out. Sometimes this will be worse in areas of the track that are shaded in the morning. This is another good reason to pay attention to what your tires are telling you...and also where they are telling you.

 

[elephino]

I'm still pretty new at this, so take it for what it's worth. But my strategy has less to do with warmer temps and compounds and pressures and more focus on what I'm doing.

Given a constant set of circumstances, I like to ratchet the pace up slowly until I get clear signals from the tires. Then I work on lines, body position, and smoothness to gain a margin before I push the pace more.

It's only when I'm out of options that I consider futzing with tires and pressures and temps, etc. I personally find it more rewarding to gain time through things that I'm doing as a rider rather than things I stick on the bike. Unless I'm looking to wring out that last 10% for a specific purpose, I enjoy the process of learning much more than the process of outright speed.

After all, there's a certain satisfaction in getting what you can out of what you have. By the end of the day at RA, I was running consistent low 1:40s on a stock 750 with Q2s and no warmers with no slips or slides. To me, that's just as big of a victory as running with the fast boys on race compounds and warmers.

Again, I understand that everyone has different goals, just pitching in my $0.02.

 

[dbakerpa]

I have found the cold weather slide is alot more predictable once you get a few laps in. You just cant over ride the front.

 

[phoenix]

I did a cold-ish day a few weeks ago in Nebraska. The ambient temp was 48 when the track went green. I think it never got above 64 on the day. Partly cloudy, just a little wind.

Continental race attack rear, set to 27 hot on wamers. Pirelli SC1 front, set to 31 hot.
The Continental was virgin material at the beginning of the day, and I ain't no Ben Spies. I took it pretty easy for the first few sessions. Never had any signs of it losing grip. I had a few extra layers on and I was warm, which gave me a little false sense of security and I migrated to riding like it was any other warm track day. Didn't have any problems on the day, but I'm not sure the tire is good for another day.

 

[JLove]

Great thread. Good info.

 

[sobottka]

Andrei;220346 wrote: just be careful not to overinsulate the thermostat area where the warmer velcro overlaps. There is too much insulation in that place already and covering it with an extra blanket can burn a hole or ruin the warmer entirely.

if your warmers crap out its not because you covered them with a towel or they have too much insulation.

 

[snikwad]

phoenix;220421 wrote: I did a cold-ish day a few weeks ago in Nebraska. The ambient temp was 48 when the track went green. I think it never got above 64 on the day. Partly cloudy, just a little wind.

Continental race attack rear, set to 27 hot on wamers. Pirelli SC1 front, set to 31 hot.
The Continental was virgin material at the beginning of the day, and I ain't no Ben Spies. I took it pretty easy for the first few sessions. Never had any signs of it losing grip. I had a few extra layers on and I was warm, which gave me a little false sense of security and I migrated to riding like it was any other warm track day. Didn't have any problems on the day, but I'm not sure the tire is good for another day.

Ive found this to be very true.

 

[daniel06]

:agree:

Keeping yourself warm is key as well. When you are cold, youre stiff. That is immediately felt by your tire from your stiff arms, upper body and legs.

When its cold out, stay warm by any means, this keeps you loose and flexible and allows you to receive more feedback from the machine.