CSS vs YCRS

kram

New Member
Hey guys,

I have been really thinking about signing up for a riding school and trying to decide between the YCRS and CSS. We are all fortunate to have these schools local to us on the East Coast and I want to take advantage of this (I am about 2 hours away from Millville NJ). I have been riding on the street for a few years and have never been on the track. I am looking to improve my riding skills both on the street and for track days that I plan on doing this year. I would like to hear from forum members who have attended either or both and what school they would recommend.

Thanks
 

kram

New Member
TurboBlew;303872 wrote: one or the other?
YCRS most definitely.

Last CSS I did was at Watkins Glen. ;)
Wish I could do both but just looking at one school this year. Just curious but why do you prefer YCRS?

Thanks
 

Meat

Member
YCRS for sure!

I've done CSS 3 times. The first time was good for me because I had only been riding a motorcycle for 1500 miles when I took the school. The second time I took the school, I had a bit more experience and had a very bad experience with an instructor. CSS reached out to me and offered to let me do another school for the price of a track day. That is why I took the school three times. I am not trying to bash CSS. It just doesn't work for me. I dispose their training technique ( I think it is referred to as the Socratic method). It just doesn't work for me, but it does others.

I got way more out of the YCRS that I did at NJMP and also had a extremely fun time. It was really awesome!
 

Meat

Member
There are many other reasons why CSS doesn't work for me but I didn't want to ramble on.

I learned a lot more at YCRS.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
I have taken YCRS. I have not taken CSS, but I've taken other schools.

YCRS hands-down! I learned more at that school that improved my riding than any other I attended. Sure, I got good information from the others, but YCRS really changed the way I ride. Nick, Ken, and the guys can really break things down and explain. They don't just tell you to do something; they explain exactly why what they're telling you will work.

Here's my review: http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=33417
 

rchase

New Member
I'll chime in. No experience here with YCRS.

I have taken all 4 levels of CSS and I am going back again this May to take Level 4 again for two days.

I have found CSS to be extremely helpful and every single time I go I make massive improvements in my riding. The one thing that I find most impressive is every single one of their instructors is able to fully explain all of the physics behind their instruction. They have a huge amount of passion to help you improve regardless of the skill set you possess when you arrive. The first time I rode with them I had zero track experience. My coaches were amazingly supportive and bent over backwards to help me through the noob jitters. A great bunch of folks that live, eat and breathe helping people.

You can easily pick up one of Keith's books and get a good bit of the theory that they teach. The classroom sessions and the track time that goes with it are quite amazing.

In my opinion it's the only way to fly.
 

RADAR Magnet

New Member
I intend to take YCRS later this year because so many people have strongly favorable reviews but other schools can still be helpful. Curriculum and method of instruction are important but if you click with someone you can learn a lot regardless of the school. Either way, I'd suggest doing a couple of regular track days first just to get somewhat acclimated to that environment; very different from the street and will help maximize your benefit from instruction.
 

rob92

Control Rider
N2
YCRS - hands down. I don't have anything negative to say about any riding club or school, but as a 2-time student myself, I can only share praise for what Nick and Ken (and their talented team) provide.

Aside from their tremendous riding skill, their ability to articulate and convey concepts in a clear and concise manner that brings you to that "ah ha" moment is extraordinary. Not only did I walk away a better rider from the YCRS school, I walked away a better instructor.

Oh yeah... I also walked away with the additional knowledge and confidence to bring my riding to the next level. For an old guy, I'm just happy I can still get out there and mix it up with all you!
 
rob92;303905 wrote: YCRS - hands down. I don't have anything negative to say about any riding club or school, but as a 2-time student myself, I can only share praise for what Nick and Ken (and their talented team) provide.

Aside from their tremendous riding skill, their ability to articulate and convey concepts in a clear and concise manner that brings you to that "ah ha" moment is extraordinary. Not only did I walk away a better rider from the YCRS school, I walked away a better instructor.

Oh yeah... I also walked away with the additional knowledge and confidence to bring my riding to the next level. For an old guy, I'm just happy I can still get out there and mix it up with all you!
Yes you are old !! But atleast your not old and fat like me. There is also the fact that you can open a can of whoop ass on a whole chitload of young people
 

Domiken

New Member
I was also in between schools, im signed up for CSS later this year, but now that I learned YCRS is at NJMP I might cancel and do that one instead. I like that they factor in trail braking, I also like the information on their website and the attitude they possess. I have been talking to my track buddies quite a bit about it, we've done over 15 track days and ride in I Nesba and TPM Red, but hope to take it to the next level finally. The price is what is scaring my buddies away, they would rather pay 1 day at a time, not easy to slam 2.5k down but I don't mind dropping the money for proper instruction. I'm hoping to be signing up very soon.

HondaGal, great review btw!
 

Meat

Member
CSS will keep referring to the same drills or techniques over and over again. They have their own terms for each drill...'the two step drill'...three step drill...(I can't remember the rest. That is all that they use to explain anything to you. That definitely works for some, irritates the crap out of me.

I was impressed with the YCRS teaching techniques. It very much fits my personality. They teach me what I need to know. They don't ask me over and over "why do you think you are doing xxx?" "What causes xxx?" This teaching style makes the student guess at the answer. Again, works for some but enrages me.
 

motorkas

Member
JimmyW;303914 wrote: There is also the fact that you can open a can of whoop ass on a whole chitload of young people
Holy shit can he open up a can of whoop ass - young, old - he doesn't discriminate. . .the thing that phucks me up - he turns all the electronics off on the BMW. . .and then goes riding. . .:eek:
 

1dwn5up

New Member
I have taken CSS but not YCRS (yet). I did levels 1 & 2 (not the 2-day school) back to back. I think the drills are good and meant to build upon each other, you will do 5 drills each one building upon each other (throttle control, quick-turn, 2-step, 3-step, etc.) so by the end of the day, you will be using all of them in conjunction. The next level was mainly about vision, so you use 5 previous day 1 drills and build with 5 more vision. Level 3 includes more body position, and you go from there. As with any school, you will learn if you have the right attitude. I felt like I improved, but not as much as I wanted. I kept on using what I learned and after a few more trackdays, it started to click and I was going faster.

What Meat is referring to with CSS' teaching style is that Keith Code wants you to think about your riding, so they will ask you questions and want you to give them answers. I can see how this is frustrating to some riders, as you either don't want to deal with it, or because you know the answer, but want them to give it to you so you can ask a deeper question regarding it, may not work. A friend of mine didn't enjoy CSS much. He said he's been told since the class that he felt he had to undo some of the things he learned, so that he can be smoother. He also wanted more one-on-one time, and a few other things that he didn't really enjoy.

YCRS - when they closed down last year, I thought I may have missed my opportunity, but they're back, so I'm saving up. $2.5k is a lot of money, I personally wished they have separate classes with more riders and a BYOB option so it's more accessible to all riders. I'm looking forward to this school because they are heavy on braking (trail braking) and since I've started trail braking into my turns, I have felt it's improved my front end feel and understanding. I've also have not heard a bad thing about them either. I've spoken to racers who said riding 2-up with Scott Russell was scary. One guy said the entire first lap he didn't even open his eyes, then got the hang of it, he didn't know you could go so deep on the brakes into turns. The curriculum is excellent and worth the money.

My advice to you:

ATTEND A TRACKDAY(s), especially where you plan to take the school, so you can learn the track. I had to learn the track while learning drills, so you can strictly focus on the lesson without worrying what the next turn coming up is. You can get free training from trackdays as well, so you can be at a higher level of riding before you take the school, and get more out of it. The other side is you can learn proper techniques without having to unlearn bad habits, and probably make more gains by taking schools. Either way you go you're basically looking to achieve one thing, improve your riding, which both schools will do. Good luck!
 

dbakerpa

Member
I would have done CSS yearly if I had the money. When I am able to start riding again I will go back. Best money to spend if you want to find your sweet spot. Have never done YCRS but a few years ago they did stuff on street tires at a skills day that boosted my track confidence almost as much.
 

whitarnold

Member
Do you feel like you can learn everything that you would learn in CSS or YCRS (own your own bike) from "Coaches" with STT and "Control Riders" with N2 - NESBA? I feel like I have put in the time asking "A" riders for help and asking Coaches for instruction and that I saved a lot of $ by not attending some schools. I go to about 20 to 25 trackdays a season and I spend most of my lunch in the pit with one of the CR that I have been working with or with one of the other "A" riders that I have asked to pull me, follow me, film me, etc.... I get to meet the staff and make new friends in the "A" group. Also, I will bump down with STT and ride "I" or "N" to help friends. Sometimes I will bump down a few sessions and film a friend. I always use these "slow" times to work on drills and body position. It is all learning and seat time without the big money for the schools.
 

rk97

Member
a couple of other people have hit upon this point, but I think you get a better value from track days initially.

I'm not saying the schools won't do an excellent job of teaching a rider who is new to the track, but that's kind of like paying a brain surgeon to do a simple blood draw... You don't want to pay doctor prices when a nurse is more than adequate.

I don't know how N2's beginner group is going to be structured, so I'd leave it to them to comment on how they will be teaching riders with no prior track experience. That said, I think most riders who have never been on a track before benefit from a slow introduction, and lots of Q&A time off the track (even if the answer is, "we'll get to that later.").

Again, the schools mentioned are probably awesome, but a lot of their advanced knowledge will go right over a new rider's head. And I'd suggest the same strategy be used when choosing a track for your first time out. I'm local to Mid-Ohio, so a lot of people in the area talk to me about doing their first track day at Mid-Ohio (which is like $215/day or something), rather than Nelson Ledges (which is more like $150/day). I try to convey to them that, while Mid-O is a world-class facility, that makes it HARDER to learn, not easier... Plus they're spending an extra $65 or whatever it is on track features they really won't be able to fully appreciate at a new rider's pace...

At the risk of being a bit crude, I analogize it to losing your virginity to a supermodel... As a new, uh, "rider," you don't know what to do with those curves. After a little practice, sure - then have at it. But it's a better value to start with a less expensive or exotic track.

So while I like Thunderbolt better than Lightning, the simpler layout of Lightning is probably the better learner's track. You focus more on riding, and less on "oh shit, what's coming next??"

/$.02
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
While I don't disagree that doing a trackday or two prior to a school is a good thing, I also believe it's important to get quality instruction early on in your track riding "career". That way you'll learn the correct techniques and not have to unlearn bad habits later. Practice makes permanent, not perfect. Practicing the wrong things won't improve your riding.
 
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