Ferrari v. Ducati

rk97

rk97

Member
I'm sure I'm not the only one of us who loved fast cars before I discovered fast bikes.

Every time I see this type of comparison though, it makes me smile a big shit-eating grin.

http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtests/coupes/1011_ferrari_458_italia_ducati_1198s_comparison_video/index.html


at $22k, the 1198S isn't exactly cheap, but you could total 12 of them before eclipsing the Ferrari's sticker price.

All that cash to be 2 seconds slower around a race track, and a second slower in the quarter mile? that's a lot of money for "style points."




But what this really makes me wonder is which vehicle I would be faster on/in.

On a (8 yr old) 600, I can get withing 15 seconds or so of AMA poll times at some tracks. Rapp laid down a 1:17, so I'd like to think I could have hope of turning a 1:30 on the same bike. Surely some of the "A" guys could.

So my question is, how fast would people like us be in the Ferrari? Does the car really making going fast easier? I suspect that it does, but it's a $260k question...


What's even more interesting is what would happen if I tossed my wife the keys to both vehicles. She's got her "M" endorsement, but no track experience (on a bike, or in a car).

would her familiarity with a car make her so much faster in the turns that her car laps are faster? or would her overall lack of cornering experience magnify the bike's straight-line acceleration advantage, making the bike the faster vehicle?

Anyone had the chance to test something like that?
 
Mikey75702

Mikey75702

Member
I like the comment from the guy below the vid. Lol....


As far as the comparison goes, I don't have any experience. A year or two ago the penguin racing school did a track event at njmp called ducs fly south. I couldnt make it, but maybe someone on here did. They put ducatis against open wheel race cars.
 
bodell

bodell

New Member
rk97;164865 wrote: I'm sure I'm not the only one of us who loved fast cars before I discovered fast bikes.

Every time I see this type of comparison though, it makes me smile a big shit-eating grin.

http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtests/coupes/1011_ferrari_458_italia_ducati_1198s_comparison_video/index.html


at $22k, the 1198S isn't exactly cheap, but you could total 12 of them before eclipsing the Ferrari's sticker price.

All that cash to be 2 seconds slower around a race track, and a second slower in the quarter mile? that's a lot of money for "style points."




But what this really makes me wonder is which vehicle I would be faster on/in.

On a (8 yr old) 600, I can get withing 15 seconds or so of AMA poll times at some tracks. Rapp laid down a 1:17, so I'd like to think I could have hope of turning a 1:30 on the same bike. Surely some of the "A" guys could.

So my question is, how fast would people like us be in the Ferrari? Does the car really making going fast easier? I suspect that it does, but it's a $260k question...


What's even more interesting is what would happen if I tossed my wife the keys to both vehicles. She's got her "M" endorsement, but no track experience (on a bike, or in a car).

would her familiarity with a car make her so much faster in the turns that her car laps are faster? or would her overall lack of cornering experience magnify the bike's straight-line acceleration advantage, making the bike the faster vehicle?

Anyone had the chance to test something like that?
Click to expand...
I bought my wife a new BMW M6 back in 08. We were given a 2 day on track "M-School" using BMW's brand new M6 M5 and M3 cars, and better yet BMW's tires.

After classroom instruction, driver ride along (both as a driver and passenger), and monitored track time some timed skill competition took place.

I was only able to beat my wife by less than 2 seconds at best. She was 21 at the time and can’t even drive a stick to this day. The truth is that the engine management and computerized stability systems really make it easy to simply "hold it on and let the car sort it out".

If the "M-School" was offered in the exact same format to the same people, but on bikes instead of cars, there would be deaths.
 
rk97

rk97

Member
yeah, that's kind of what I figured - the car is slower, but it's easier to drive fast because there's a much greater margin for error.

Simply put, the traction and stability control systems have a greater opportunity to exercise their control with 4 wheels involved.

Maybe that's one more reason to like bikes though... I kind of appreciate that it's not easy.
 
rk97

rk97

Member
the full article has an insert comparing Moto GP to F1, and the F1 cars absolutely destroy Moto GP bikes, but practically speaking, I think that's totally irrelevant for consumers.

None of us are ever going to purchase a car that actually uses aerodynamic down-force to the extent that F1 cars do. It's just not practical. In that regard, F1 cars aren't even cars. There was a great Top Gear where Hammond's challenge was to complete ONE lap in an F1 car. It's that different than 'regular' driving.

A moto GP bike definitely has some crazy gadgets on it, but I think any of us could finish a lap on one without much drama.

so yes, I agree "apples and oranges," but an F1 car and a street car are apples and oranges themselves. F1 car to bike is like apples and bananas.
 
noobinacan

noobinacan

Member
A buddy and I discussed/argued this back in school few years ago and our conclusion was.
"Cheaper to go fast on,buy,maintain and more fun...hence more bang for the buck"
 
Kordyte

Kordyte

Member
It's because the sport bikes on the roads and the slightly modified ones that we ride on the track are not too different from a MotoGP bike, when you compare it with a "sports car" and the F1 race car. HUGE difference there.
 
daddyfriedrich

daddyfriedrich

Member
I just read this at my girlfriend's (lady that cuts my hair, the "girlfriend" is just a joke with my wife) shop. I was pretty amazed the bike turned a lap faster than the car in one of the tests.
 
rk97

rk97

Member
actually the bike beats the car in every respect except braking. 60-0 was 99 feet for the car, and 117 for the bike.

technically the car has more luggage room too, but seating capacity is equal :p
 
bodell

bodell

New Member
rk97;164983 wrote: actually the bike beats the car in every respect except braking. 60-0 was 99 feet for the car, and 117 for the bike.

technically the car has more luggage room too, but seating capacity is equal :p
Click to expand...
The car would absolutely crush the bike in top speed. Even a 'busa or zx14.

My M6 tops out at 212 and will destroy a 1000cc sportbike roll on racing above 120.
 
Bubba Zanetti

Bubba Zanetti

Member
That's pretty impressive Bodell. But most people don't have an M6.

Normally on the street its some knucklehead in his 4 cylinder car that he thinks is hopped up becasue they have viewed the Fast and the Furious a thousand times, added a spoiler and they have a five gallon paint bucket attached as a muffler.

BZ
 
Mikey75702

Mikey75702

Member
Bubba Zanetti;164986 wrote: That's pretty impressive Bodell. But most people don't have an M6.

Normally on the street its some knucklehead in his 4 cylinder car that he thinks is hopped up becasue they have viewed the Fast and the Furious a thousand times, added a spoiler and they have a five gallon paint bucket attached as a muffler.

BZ
Click to expand...
I resemble that remark :D....... just joking. Though some cars with enough money in the proper places can do so much more then an M6 or a Ferrari
 
rk97

rk97

Member
I call shenanigans on 212mph top speed for an M6. Maybe BMW got one to that speed once, with a tail-wind, going down-hill, with a unicorn driving - but practically speaking, I'm sure the top-speed is significantly lower.

I've subscribed to motor trend for a long time, and their "200 mph supercars" test on a 5 mile oval yielded several high dollar cars with 550+ hp that couldn't break 200. I want to say that the best they could get was 203 or 207. I distinctly remember that the ford GT (far more aerodynamic than an M6) couldn't break 200.

Yes, a car will gain a significant aerodynamic advantage over a bike once they both surpass a certain speed, but the bike's acceleration edge means that the car will be playing catch-up by then. Roll-on racing puts them neck and neck to start, which won't be the case at the race track. The bike will have a head-start because it accelerates TO 120 so much quicker.

There aren't many tracks in North America where a liter bike can hit top speed, and I suspect the car would suffer the same problem - you just run out of pavement. So yeah, the car might do 150-180 faster than the bike, but find me a track where it will have the room to actually reach 180.

I don't know how long the straight is at Streets of Willow, but the fact that the Duc only got to 139 means it was probably in 4th gear... The car had just as much room, and only hit 117.

I don't know how long of a track it would take before the car has enough room to close the gap, but considering the car could brake later than the bike, and still had a 20 mph lower trap speed; I'm thinking about triple the length of the straight at Streets of Willow.
 
noobinacan

noobinacan

Member
Bubba Zanetti;164986 wrote: That's pretty impressive Bodell. But most people don't have an M6.

Normally on the street its some knucklehead in his 4 cylinder car that he thinks is hopped up becasue they have viewed the Fast and the Furious a thousand times, added a spoiler and they have a five gallon paint bucket attached as a muffler.

BZ
Click to expand...
I don't know man...
They got some fast 4-bangers these days...and its usually the sleepers that get ya!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPtub5M2v1U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ees2aZcDUn8


Evo 9 is my dream car...one day!
 
bodell

bodell

New Member
rk97;164988 wrote: I call shenanigans on 212mph top speed for an M6. Maybe BMW got one to that speed once, with a tail-wind, going down-hill, with a unicorn driving - but practically speaking, I'm sure the top-speed is significantly lower.

I've subscribed to motor trend for a long time, and their "200 mph supercars" test on a 5 mile oval yielded several high dollar cars with 550+ hp that couldn't break 200. I want to say that the best they could get was 203 or 207. I distinctly remember that the ford GT (far more aerodynamic than an M6) couldn't break 200.

Yes, a car will gain a significant aerodynamic advantage over a bike once they both surpass a certain speed, but the bike's acceleration edge means that the car will be playing catch-up by then. Roll-on racing puts them neck and neck to start, which won't be the case at the race track. The bike will have a head-start because it accelerates TO 120 so much quicker.

There aren't many tracks in North America where a liter bike can hit top speed, and I suspect the car would suffer the same problem - you just run out of pavement. So yeah, the car might do 150-180 faster than the bike, but find me a track where it will have the room to actually reach 180.

I don't know how long the straight is at Streets of Willow, but the fact that the Duc only got to 139 means it was probably in 4th gear... The car had just as much room, and only hit 117.

I don't know how long of a track it would take before the car has enough room to close the gap, but considering the car could brake later than the bike, and still had a 20 mph lower trap speed; I'm thinking about triple the length of the straight at Streets of Willow.
Click to expand...
The M6 was taken to Dynan in Asheville for some upgrades and the removal of the US consumer speed limiter (165mph). I assure you that it will do exactly 212 on GPS and have several ride alongers on this forum that can back it. 550hp and a 7 speed tranny on a carbon fiber and aluminum car make 200+ very easy and comfortable.

http://www.dinancars.com/shop/index.aspx?series=M-Series&model=M6#page=1
 
bodell

bodell

New Member
rk97;164996 wrote: ...except it can't do it on a race track.
Click to expand...
As I stated. M6 eats 1000cc bikes in roll on races over 120mph, and will crush busa's and 14's in top speed. I made no other claim. It also costs half what the Ferrari does.
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