Frame Purchase Issue

[ZLTFUL]

Not to play devil's advocate in any way but I have a scenario for you. And again, this isn't meant to be an out or anything like that.

I have bought 4 frames from a local motorcycle salvage yard in the past. These frames were from bikes that were totaled, deemed "Unrepairable" by the state and sold to salvage operators.
These salvage operators are required to grind the VINs so that these bikes don't somehow find themselves back onto the street. The salvage operator required me to sign a release of liability stating that I would not be attempting to license these for street use.

State laws vary. State DMV requirements for "repairable" and "unrepairables" vary greatly.

Just something to think about.

Your best bet is to be up front 100%. State to your superiors and local law enforcement that you purchased the frame with the understanding that it was BLANK and not ground off. Once you received it, you became aware that it could possibly be a stolen frame and want to do your part to make sure that if it is stolen it gets to the proper authorities.

Honesty is going to carry the day for you here. All emails/communications/etc need to be shared with them. You are not going to be held accountable unless you try to find some less than 100% honest way out of the situation.

 

[Julio Caliente]

Honesty.. exactly!!!!!!!

That is why I am not worried about anybody "arresting me". As for it being received from a salvage yard I am not sure about that because I have no idea where it actually came from. I did ask for paperwork and was told it had none. I just figured no VIN meant it never had a VIN and not “it had one but it was ground off by somebody”

 

[Julio Caliente]

If I was told the VIN was ground off I never would have bought it.

 

[jcrich]

Julio Caliente;230982 wrote: I highly doubt the Davis County Swat teams is going to assemble outside my house, kick the door in, arrest me, and charge me with possession of stolen property. If you really think that the police would charge me with possession in this situation then get out your tin foil hats!!!!!!!

The police will no arrest you if you turn in property that you know is stolen if you are doing the right thing about it. Only thing that will happen is that I am out my $$$$. No bigee there as my integrity is worth more than the price of this frame.

Compare it buying something at a yard sale or pawn shop.
You missed my point and you are right I doubt the local constabulary will be kicking in your door.

You posted this:

I can no way keep it as my job involves high levels of security clearance, and having this in my possession would be an issue.

This is a situation to go seek legal assistance not Internet experts.

 

[justintime_3]

Just a heads up, if u did in fact use paypal, file a claim as soon as possible, they will freeze his account so he will have no money going in and none coming out. And if he does have it linked to his personal account I believe they can freeze that also. I had a run in with ebay about something similar. I sold some plastics on Ebay, I shipped them and the person signed for them. A week later the guy files a claim with ebay saying he never recieved them,it goes directly to Paypal and they freeze my PP account and my checking account. Long story short the dipshit tried to say his girlfriend signed for it and hid it but it all worked it self out.
My 2 cents would be file a claim with PP tell the individual if you do not get a full refund you will be reporting this to the authorities. If he doesnt pay up go to the cops and tell them your whole story. They will not file charges on you for un knowingly recieving stolen property. And as the previous poster pointed out it may in fact not be stolen and just from a salvaged yard but usually those have a paper trail. Good luck man.

 

[Gorecki]

Julio Caliente;230973 wrote: I am no longer doing Trident Missile R&D (transferred to the AF and now do missile work them) so no NCIS but I know what you mean. I thought about going to local security office and talking to them about it just in case. Never really thought about having them record it, but that is not a bad idea.

You bascially got where I was going, NCIS is where I would go (I'm Navy). Go to whom ever it is that applies to you.

Again, you're not going to have police knocking down your door for purchasing a bike frame of a website. You still know FOR A FACT that it is nothing more than a frame with the VIN removed, you REALLY don't know anything more than that.

Next time, get pictures first.

 

[noobinacan]

Julio Caliente;230968 wrote: It has been over a week since funds were sent, so they are most likely gone. I will dispute charge with my CC company (luckily I uses my CC for all PayPal transactions because I think they offer better protection). I agree if he wants the frame back he should pay for shipping, but I most likely wouldn’t ship it back. Then he can just pass it on to somebody else which is unacceptable.

you have 45 days to open a dispute
you pay 3% paypal fee for situations just like this. let Paypal deal with it...if money is gone, then paypal will take care of it.
that's the 'Buyer protection' they offer.
paypal will credit you the amount you paid to the guy.

CC company is a bigger hassle and will create more problems than will solve.

 

[denbsteph]

As others have said, in so many words, I would stop putting your plans out here on this forum, dude could very will be gathering intel on you as the conversation and idea's are bounced around, IMHO.

 

[01wj]

To be honest with you, I don't think anyone's going to go after you especially in Utah for a frame that "might" be stolen. We don't even know 100% that it is. Does it sound suspicious? Yes it does, but you never know. Maybe he did truly buy the frame off ebay like that, and maybe the previous owner had a legit reason for grinding off the VIN. (Although I can't think of one, I'm sure someone more familiar w/ vehicle salvage and such can chime in)

Honestly, if you are that worried about it, I wouldn't post or ask about it anymore, especially online. Take the frame and throw it in the trash and once it's gone nobody is going to be able to prove that you ever had it or if they can it's going to be pretty much impossible to prove it was stolen. It sucks because you are out $175, but you have a piece of mind.

Personally, in my opinion, I think you are worrying more than you need to about the whole issue.

 

[Andrei]

This video may clear things up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAhOvZrRPT0

 

[Spitz]

How many digits can you read? I think only the last 5 or 6 are actually the bikes ID number. Is there anywhere else on the frame that manufactures put vin numbers? I know on cars they are all over the place now a days. I guess the way I see it, no matter how amicable your intentions is there any possible way to know if its stolen or not. For all you know its not, and there is no way to prove one way or another.


Edit: There are some ways to get the vin back. I would be seeking legal advice if I were you, or get the seller to get your money back anyway possible. There are acid tests that can be used on guns, stamped vins etc.. Also there is a ultrasonic method that can be employed. Remember they only need the last 6 digits to identify the bike.

 

[Julio Caliente]

Quick Update....

All is well from my end. No issues with my security folks here, and they put me in touch with the right people. I was hoping to the seller would chime in here and step up but no such luck.