Frame Sliders with Race Bodywork?

zwampy

New Member
Hello everyone!!!

I'm interested in some opinions on frame sliders or no frame sliders for the track?

Long story short: R6, with a set of sliders on it...lowsided, frame slider caught on dirt/grass and flipped the bike over causing more damage than it would have from just sliding a bit.

I'd like to know what others think so i can decide wether to put them back on once i rebuild it or go with just the race bodywork.

Thank You All...

AP
 

Booty Freak

New Member
I say no go. Sliders seem to do more damage when they
dig into dirt or a curb. Flips do the most damage. So why increase the chance ??
I for one do not have sliders. Plus sport bikes are supposed to look fast. Sliders
take away from the smooth look.
 

Burnall4

New Member
To be honest with you I have never liked the frame sliders that stick out really far for the reason you described. The longer ones tend to catch and cause more damage. However, I stumbled on to WOODCRAFTS frame sliders they sit more flush with the plastics of my bike (Honda CBR 600rr) so it doesn't do the said action during a crash. I would check them out. But I agree with you, the only reason why I have them is because I am new to the track with a motorcycle and I am going to go down at some point (knock on wood)

here is a pic of my bike, they only stick out about 1/2 inch at the furthest point

IMG_0773.jpg


you can see the one by the clutch cover
 

zwampy

New Member
Burnall4;22810 wrote: To be honest with you I have never liked the frame sliders that stick out really far for the reason you described. The longer ones tend to catch and cause more damage. However, I stumbled on to WOODCRAFTS frame sliders they sit more flush with the plastics of my bike (Honda CBR 600rr) so it doesn't do the said action during a crash. I would check them out. But I agree with you, the only reason why I have them is because I am new to the track with a motorcycle and I am going to go down at some point (knock on wood)

here is a pic of my bike, they only stick out about 1/2 inch at the furthest point

you can see the one by the clutch cover
Those are the ones i have....apparently there seem to be different versions. Race and standard. So there's a chance i could have the standard length...
 

RyanITV

Admin
I'm with you... my R6 tumbled in the dirt in a minor lowside because of them, but the flush ones on my 848 just helped keep the cases from getting messed up in a significantly faster lowside in the same turn 18 months later.

So long as they're as close as possible to the bodywork, I'm all for them. I just changed both the 848 and the 1098R over to under-the-body framesliders. My thought is that they're like the last line of defense if the bodywork gets worn through.

My $0.02...

Ryan
 

Steve

New Member
Heck, most of have aftermarket rearsets. Aren't all of them fixed pegs? I think they're just as responsible, if not more so, for flipping bikes. It just depends on the orientation of the bike when it leaves the asphalt. ihmo
 

zwampy

New Member
Steve;22842 wrote: Heck, most of have aftermarket rearsets. Aren't all of them fixed pegs? I think they're just as responsible, if not more so, for flipping bikes. It just depends on the orientation of the bike when it leaves the asphalt. ihmo

That is a great point...in my case i'm still stock :D
 

JASON748

New Member
In all the years I've been riding & racing - I've never seen a bike flip after a lowside just because it had frame sliders on it...
I've seen wheels, handle bars, subframes/tails, fairing stays, etc... grip and flip a bike, but never solely because of a frame slider... could a frame slider aid in flipping a bike - Yep no doubt, but guess what - if it's going to flip, it's going to flip - frame slider or no frame slider.
Personally for as many times as I've crashed over the years - Frame sliders have minimized the amount of damage on my bike 9 times out 10 (and there's been far more than 10 crashes).

If you're running Woodcraft pucks (best there is IMO) I'd bet money the 600rr "race" puck will bolt right on to any Woodcraft base.
 

Steve

New Member
If you're running Woodcraft pucks (best there is IMO) I'd bet money the 600rr "race" puck will bolt right on to any Woodcraft base.
How much? I have a cbr600rr and I use woodcraft frame sliders and they're different than the ones for my sv. In fact I know that without "slight modification" a "standard" slider, which my sv uses, it wouldn't fit my cbr, so although I haven't tried it I don't think a cbr600rr's slider is supposed to fit anything else.
 

JASON748

New Member
I know they bolt right on the 08+ 1000RR base. I also loaned a set to someone with a 06 or 07 R6 and he used them said there was no problem, worked fine, and no modification on them when I got them back either. What "slight modification" did you have to do?


EDIT***
You are correct.
I just looked on Woodcrafts site - the 600rr puck only fit the 03 - 08 (probably the 09 too, but ???) 600RR and the 08, 09 1000RR. I wonder is the 600rr pucks have a larger ID and a different depth for the mounting screw?

But they do make a "shorty universal puck" for all the other applications. Woodcraft Part number: 50-1399
http://www.woodcraft-cfm.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=17796
 

zwampy

New Member
Jason748,

I completely agree with you on there being many other factors for a bike flipping...only problem, is that the left side that caught, distinctly had damage on the slider and bent it while there was nothing else until the bike was flipped up and then to the right side. That is why i posed up because it was pretty evident that was the culprit behind the bike not continuing to slide....this is not say other issues wouldn't have come up.

I'm just exploring some ideas on how to go forward as I would not like a repeat scenario.

One thing on my mind was to shave the sliders down so they fit under the body work. So if the bodywork didn't hold out then when it got to the slider it would be short enough not to have the leverage to mess with the bike's momentum.

Regardless, all great points from everyone's posts. I appreciate it guys.

Thank You
 

Perlzuki

New Member
Zwamp, Frame sliders saved my 06 GSXR 1000 on Monday at VIR full! I had the Vortex sliders ( long ones ) . Have heard stories about them catching when that hit the dirt & had some concerns. On Monday I blew a fork seal & the front end tucked in T 1 at VIR. I was at full lean & it just went. We ( bike & me ) slid to the end of the pavement & then I went tumbling ( earth sky, earth sky) at least 3 times. When I got up the bike was on the side it fell over on. The frame slider was ground down . The bolt was bent & there is no doubt in my mind that the bike would have been way more tore up without them! Fairing stay was bent, peg was ground down & rear fairing behind the seat was messed up, but no toher damage. Pipe barely had a scratch! I'm very happy I had them in this instance. Hope to never find out again!


Mark
SE CR #249
Scratched up 06 GSXR 1000
 

zwampy

New Member
Glad to hear you are OK Perl...

Thanks for the input...in the end it seems like there are multiple factors in play and how the bike falls, etc.
 

Steve

New Member
I wonder is the 600rr pucks have a larger ID and a different depth for the mounting screw?
Actually I'm right and wrong. The cbr slider will "fit" on my sv mount, but not the other way around. The SV slider has a deeper hole and it also has a post inside the hole that fits inside the mount for the slider, if any of this makes senes, lol. I said it will fit the sv mount, but if I were to crash on one, it may break the screw that holds it on and fall off if the bike flips. This probably wouldn't be a problem, but you never know.
 

JASON748

New Member
So there was no other damage on the Left side - Scuffed or dirt packed footpeg, scuffed or dirty bar end, Dirt packed into the tire tred? I ask because for a bike to slide it would have to have at least 2 points of contact - it's not going to slid on just the slider only. But it sounds to me the slider did exactly what it was designed to do take the brunt of the impact and destroy itself instead of more expensive parts on your bike.

I've had more than one crash that were very similar to what your describing, minimal damage except to the slider/slider base on the initial impact side, but then something catches, flips the bike and lots of damage occurs on the other side. In fact I the first time it happened I was SURE the slider was the major culprit - until I saw the series of photographs of the crash a couple weeks later. The slider had actually dug in 3 times before the bike flipped, and the only reason it flipped was because bar dug in and pole vaulted it - but there was only a little scuffing and some dirt on the bar... no real indication that that was the real cause.
I've also used built and used my own "under the body" sliders in the past and the results weren't any different - in fact it I had to estimate it they usually did more cosmetic damage to bike than the traditional through the bodywork sliders.

After that I really started to think about it and applied some basic physics & geometry to it. The first thing the really "clicked" for me was when I look at the slider placement - it's very centrally located on the bike, this means it's virtually impossible for the slider, by itself, to flip a bike. A little experiment that illustrates this is take a 5x8 note card or something similar poke a pen or pencil tip so it just barely sticks out. Now run it along something and hit something that will catch it and stop it - what happens. Now poke two more holes through it replicating the locations of the foot peg and bars (because those are the three things that "stick out" from the side of the bike - even the stock folding pegs still stick out when folded) and try each individually - the only one that will actually cause a flip will be the bar - because it is high and close to an edge (making it furthest from the center of gravity of the three) giving it the largest MOI (Moment Of Inertia). Now when you start adding in tires... by far the most common thing to catch and cause a flip - and typically leave little or no evidence...

This brings me back to: If a bike is going to flip - it's going to flip, with or without sliders, doesn't matter if they stick through the body, or hide under it. AND it's going to SUCK when it does flip...

Definitely makes for a good discussion :congrats:
 

zwampy

New Member
This brings me back to: If a bike is going to flip - it's going to flip, with or without sliders, doesn't matter if they stick through the body, or hide under it. AND it's going to SUCK when it does flip...
Jason,

I'm starting to think the same thing from all the posts...which is pushing more and more toward the shorty "RACE" sliders from Woodcraft...


Appreciate all the feedback.
 

JASON748

New Member
:doh: almost forgot to answer this one...

zwampy;22990 wrote:
I'm just exploring some ideas on how to go forward as I would not like a repeat scenario.
The only way I know of is DON'T CRASH.... but way easier said than done...
 

PARedVFRRider

New Member
Any reason you couldn't just cut down standard sliders to be closer to the track body work rather than buy a whole new set?
 

zwampy

New Member
PARedVFRRider;23186 wrote: Any reason you couldn't just cut down standard sliders to be closer to the track body work rather than buy a whole new set?
THe one is messed up pretty bad...so why not get the shorties.
 
Top