Front end crashes downhill

[withoutequal]

I was watching the german GP last weekend, and noticed that a lot of riders got caught out by the downhill right at sachsenring.
Can someone explain the reasons for these types of crashes? I usually get on the gas going downhill to relive some of the weight on the front tire, and better distribute the weight on the chassis. Is this wrong? I can see getting on the gas too early on decent can cause a rear type crash, as the suspension is unloaded, but once descending, getting on the gas should bring the chassis back into a better balance. Can someone expand on this?

The turn and crashes in question can be seen at :25, :27 :40 seconds
http://youtu.be/cs-LJNNH1hY

 

[Nashoba]

Those crashes mostly are on right hand corners (that happen to be downhill).

Sachsenring is a predominately left hand corner track. Many of those crashes are in right handers, and there are many 'cold-side' of the tire crashes there. They just don't keep the heat in that right side, especially in the first few laps.

Seemed like like of the practice crashes were in the first few laps of the right handers. (it just so happens that the one big crash turn isTurn 11 "Waterfall Corner").

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/193620/1/bridgestone_responds_to_asymmetric_front_suggestion.html

 

[borislav]

As you can see that corner is downhill/off camber.What is trickey about turns like this is that your suspension gets unloaded due to corner dropping down and away from you which can cause loss of grip when you are trail braking and also accelerating.Dovi and Crutch were on the brakes when they went down and Pedrobot and others were accelerating!Cold tires will add to this big time,one turn that reminds me to this one is turn 5 at Lightning course at NJMP.

 

[withoutequal]

borislav;281241 wrote: As you can see that corner is downhill/off camber.What is trickey about turns like this is that your suspension gets unloaded due to corner dropping down and away from you which can cause loss of grip when you are trail braking and also accelerating.Dovi and Crutch were on the brakes when they went down and Pedrobot and others were accelerating!Cold tires will add to this big time,one turn that reminds me to this one is turn 5 at Lightning course at NJMP.

I can see why, if they were on the brakes, but I thought they were on the gas going down the hill. So say turn 4 at summit or 7 at beaver, and also 5 at lightning. once you are going down the hill, get on the gas right? Am I right in thinking that the weight will be better distributed when on the gas downhill?

 

[vinny337]

In addition to the other comments, there are MANY paticulars that come in to play. Cold tires, lean angle, your riding ability, suspension seetings, too much trail brake, correcting mistakes mid corner and the list goes on. What works for me is I try to feel what the bike (suspension) is doing and make adjustments from there.

 

[Jiggy]

Their $200,000 ECU failed to operate the bike for them, therefore they were forced to use some skill in racing a motorcycle......that is why they crashed. I wouldnt be surprised if we see a MotoGP Drone bike class in the next 3 years.

 

[daddyfriedrich]

^ throws the gauntlet down

 

[withoutequal]

I'm actually looking more for a way to avoid crashing like that myself. Even though it was a GP race, i'm looking for a way to apply it to my riding. Good explanations so far, just wanna learn as much as I can.

 

[Slitherin]

Like Jiggy said, the bikes they have are not comparable to a track bike we ride other than they have 2 wheels. Watch MotoGP for entertainment. I'm not sure you'll learn anything from one of their crashes other than 1. Crashing Sucks 2. Crashing Sucks and oh by the way, Crashing Sucks.

 

[withoutequal]

Slitherin;281286 wrote: Like Jiggy said, the bikes they have are not comparable to a track bike we ride other than they have 2 wheels. Watch MotoGP for entertainment. I'm not sure you'll learn anything from one of their crashes other than 1. Crashing Sucks 2. Crashing Sucks and oh by the way, Crashing Sucks.

I was just using that crash as an example, since most people here would have seen it. The root question is how to properly handle a downhill turn at the tracks we ride, on the bikes we ride. I.e. t5 lightning, t4 main, t7 beaver. I always feel kinda lost going downhill, like there is time to be made. Looking for the experts insights.

 

[gursesl]

No expert by any stretch of the imagination, but you're pretty much on money when you say load the rear tire with some amount of throttle. I was doing VIR N yesterday and the section from T14 to the last turn before the front straight is all downhill and through experimentation I learned that some amount of constant throttle settles the bike very nicely for the entire section downhill.

One time I touched the brakes and surely it got scary pretty quick

 

[D-Zum]

gursesl;281289 wrote: No expert by any stretch of the imagination, but you're pretty much on money when you say load the rear tire with some amount of throttle. I was doing VIR N yesterday and the section from T14 to the last turn before the front straight is all downhill and through experimentation I learned that some amount of constant throttle settles the bike very nicely for the entire section downhill.

One time I touched the brakes and surely it got scary pretty quick

Should have watched the AMA Superbikes run down that section...I got a chance a few years ago..was actually talking with Freddy Spencer hillside while I was watching...Mladin, DuHamel, and the like were all ON the gas going down that hill..you could see their back ends breaking loose as they went towards the hogs pen.

Simply amazing.

 

[borislav]

withoutequal;281287 wrote: I was just using that crash as an example, since most people here would have seen it. The root question is how to properly handle a downhill turn at the tracks we ride, on the bikes we ride. I.e. t5 lightning, t4 main, t7 beaver. I always feel kinda lost going downhill, like there is time to be made. Looking for the experts insights.

D


You hit the apex you need to start to accelerate!!! How much you're going to accelerate depends on how comfortable,skillful you are etc. How does one find the limit/when is to much in this sport!?